U of Toronto MPP SPPG 2015 FALL

[Poliphilo]

so i have a 3.3 cumulative and 3.9 (4.3 scale) for my last two years. 2 good letters from profs, no OPS or anything. undergrad in sociology/social anthro from kings university. a few people told me my letter of intent was well written. how sore should my ulcer be?

You're competitive. You have an upward trend for your GPA with is good. A lot of other applicants already have policy or government work experience and higher cumulative GPAs so that is likely why you didn't get an offer in the first round. You still have a chance of getting an offer in the 2nd round but I wouldn't bank on it.

 

 

Thanks Poliphilo! I work in the field of immigration right now, but I have no direct public service/policy experience.

 

Ideally I would like to find a position post-grad in the OPS, with the City of Toronto, or in the private sector, so I know UofT seems like a logical choice. It was my first choice when I was applying, but I am still really torn. I am having trouble justifying that amount of tuition when I now have other great options and already have student debt to think of.

 

I have been accepted to the policy analysis specialization at Carleton, so I feel like I would be getting a lot of the same competencies as I would at UofT. I talked to a co-op advisor there today, and the vast majority of Carleton placements are with federal public service, but it sounds like there are opportunities to land placements outside of Ottawa through self-directed search. I like the idea of doing 2 co-op placements instead of just the one internship too.

 

Queen's seems to specialize in the policy areas I am interested in (health, social), and place well into the OPS, and it would be a lot more affordable than UofT since it is a 10 month program, but the pace of the program also worries me a bit since I don't have a strong quantitative background. It seems also like UofT's internship program may be stronger?

 

I feel like I am driving myself crazy weighing out the pros and cons. I am going to go to Kingston and Ottawa next weekend to see if the idea of moving to either of those cities from Toronto is enough to push me to accept at UofT

Sorry for the ramble!

 

For those of you choosing UofT's MPP program, why is it your top choice? Your reasoning may help me decide. 

Thanks again for your reply Poliphilo, and for the employment stats!

Hi DBT, I understand that debt is scary. I'm hesitant to take take on debt for my MPP but you have to weigh how many doors an MPP will open for you vs how many doors X amount of debt will close for you I think it is worth it. Yes debt does prevent you from taking lower-paying jobs that you may enjoy, but having an MPP allows you to get higher paying policy jobs that you wouldn't be able to get without an MPP. 

 

From the Queen's almuni I have spoken to their program is short but intense. The internship program they offer is after the 10 months of courses, optional and only with the Federal Public Service. As well, not everyone who wants an internship with the Federal Public Service gets it. 

 

UofT's internship program is in the summer between year 1 and year 2 and pretty much everyone gets a placement somewhere. Most are placed with the OPS. 

 

Pros of UofT

-In Toronto. Easier to develop a network in Toronto and land a permanent job in Toronto after you graduate if you go to school there. 

-Strong placement with the OPS and the private sector (for a MPA/MPP program). 

-Strong quantitative training. A lot of policy job and the higher paying jobs are requiring applicants to have a strong quantitative background. Having a strong financial background makes it easier to go private sector if you get tired of government (e.g. finance, government relations).

-PAID internship offers good hands-on experience.

-Strong international reputation. Helps if you're gunning for something like the UN or IMF.

 

Cons of UofT

-It's expensive. Sticker price is $16k a year

-It's in Toronto. Some people don't like the big city and Toronto has a high cost of living. 

[MPPWonk]

I am also trying to decided between U of T, Queen's and Carleton. I do have a few questions for the other posters:

 

1. Poliphilo, where did you hear that you can only do an internship with the Federal Service at Queen's?

 

From what I understand, no one is guaranteed an internship position, anywhere. I went to the U of T info session and they were quite insistent on this point. You are *required* to do an internship at the U of T, but there is no preference given to U of T, or any other university at any government organization. The internships are posted and anyone is able to apply. So of course not everyone at Queen's gets into their internship of preference - that's the case at any university.

 

Still, I would love to hear more about what the alumni said - is 10 months enough to learn the skills they need? I do worry that with only one economics class (Carleton and UofT have both Macro and Micro), Queen's is light in that area. However, Carleton seems as quantitatively focused as the U of T.

 

Anyone with any other insight or info?

[JTMurray]

Hey everybody, on the topic of the internships and financial matters, does anyone know what happens if (god forbid) a person in the program doesn't get an internship? Is it the case that you have to pay for more school until an internship is completed? I'm just trying to decide if going to UT is an economical choice. Obviously it opens a lot of doors, but I'm nervous about all the contingencies. I already have about $20,000 debt from my two previous degrees, and now it's looking like that number will be closer to $50,000 when all is said and done. Does anyone know how many students fail to get an internship in the summer? Also, does anyone know exactly how UT's loan program works? They claim to cover the difference of what OSAP does, but do they have similar interest rates? 
Regardless, I think I'm going to accept my offer at UT since I didn't apply anywhere else and finding a job with my MA in philosophy has been difficult to say the least. Anything someone can tell me to ease my mind about the cost would be super appreciated. 

[Ozone15]

I wonder if anyone can get in touch with SPPG for questions? Even as accepted...they did not return any of my email and my calls.....

 

Thanks!

[Poliphilo]

I am also trying to decided between U of T, Queen's and Carleton. I do have a few questions for the other posters:

 

1. Poliphilo, where did you hear that you can only do an internship with the Federal Service at Queen's?

 

From what I understand, no one is guaranteed an internship position, anywhere. I went to the U of T info session and they were quite insistent on this point. You are *required* to do an internship at the U of T, but there is no preference given to U of T, or any other university at any government organization. The internships are posted and anyone is able to apply. So of course not everyone at Queen's gets into their internship of preference - that's the case at any university.

 

Still, I would love to hear more about what the alumni said - is 10 months enough to learn the skills they need? I do worry that with only one economics class (Carleton and UofT have both Macro and Micro), Queen's is light in that area. However, Carleton seems as quantitatively focused as the U of T.

 

Anyone with any other insight or info?

1. From Queen's website and the admissions officer I've spoken with.

"When is the internship offered?

Full-time students who have completed their program of study are eligible to compete for and accept a one-term co-op position with the Government of Canada through the MPA Internship (MPA-890). A small number of students choose this transitional school-to-work program each year."

2, As to whether 10 months is enough, it depends. 10 months is probably enough for some policy jobs. I know Queen's MPA grads working in the FPS and OPS who get by just fine. However, they have told me that there is a trend towards more quantitative analysis. A lot of policy job ads are starting to require strong quantitative skills and this is likely to continue. If you're interested in monetary or fiscal policy you should definitely look into a program with a strong quantitative focus. 

 

Hey everybody, on the topic of the internships and financial matters, does anyone know what happens if (god forbid) a person in the program doesn't get an internship? Is it the case that you have to pay for more school until an internship is completed? I'm just trying to decide if going to UT is an economical choice. Obviously it opens a lot of doors, but I'm nervous about all the contingencies. I already have about $20,000 debt from my two previous degrees, and now it's looking like that number will be closer to $50,000 when all is said and done. Does anyone know how many students fail to get an internship in the summer? Also, does anyone know exactly how UT's loan program works? They claim to cover the difference of what OSAP does, but do they have similar interest rates? 

Regardless, I think I'm going to accept my offer at UT since I didn't apply anywhere else and finding a job with my MA in philosophy has been difficult to say the least. Anything someone can tell me to ease my mind about the cost would be super appreciated. 

Don't quote me on this, but I assume that if you don't get a internship between the summer of Year 1 and Year 2 you could do an internship after year 2 in order to graduate. That is how most co-op/internship requirements work at universities in Ontario. I have a call scheduled with UofT and will report back when I find out. I'm also curious.

 

All the MPP students I've talked to have gotten an internship, but I guess that is a bit of confirmation bias on my part. I'll also ask what % of students get internships as well.

 

Not sure how UTAPS works. On the bright side most people who get internships make 7-10k during the summer between year 1 and year 2. I also know several MPP students who manage a part-time job while in the MPP program so working part-time could help minimize your debt levels.  

[devp]

In the info session, they said its extremely rare for a student not to get a position - I forgot the actual numbers but in the past 2 or 5 years they haven't had a student not get an internship position. But if you don't find a position, you try the summer after your 2nd year? 

[DBT]

You're competitive. You have an upward trend for your GPA with is good. A lot of other applicants already have policy or government work experience and higher cumulative GPAs so that is likely why you didn't get an offer in the first round. You still have a chance of getting an offer in the 2nd round but I wouldn't bank on it.

 

 

Hi DBT, I understand that debt is scary. I'm hesitant to take take on debt for my MPP but you have to weigh how many doors an MPP will open for you vs how many doors X amount of debt will close for you I think it is worth it. Yes debt does prevent you from taking lower-paying jobs that you may enjoy, but having an MPP allows you to get higher paying policy jobs that you wouldn't be able to get without an MPP. 

 

From the Queen's almuni I have spoken to their program is short but intense. The internship program they offer is after the 10 months of courses, optional and only with the Federal Public Service. As well, not everyone who wants an internship with the Federal Public Service gets it. 

 

UofT's internship program is in the summer between year 1 and year 2 and pretty much everyone gets a placement somewhere. Most are placed with the OPS. 

 

Pros of UofT

-In Toronto. Easier to develop a network in Toronto and land a permanent job in Toronto after you graduate if you go to school there. 

-Strong placement with the OPS and the private sector (for a MPA/MPP program). 

-Strong quantitative training. A lot of policy job and the higher paying jobs are requiring applicants to have a strong quantitative background. Having a strong financial background makes it easier to go private sector if you get tired of government (e.g. finance, government relations).

-PAID internship offers good hands-on experience.

-Strong international reputation. Helps if you're gunning for something like the UN or IMF.

 

Cons of UofT

-It's expensive. Sticker price is $16k a year

-It's in Toronto. Some people don't like the big city and Toronto has a high cost of living. 

Thanks for your reply Poliphilo! The 1st and 2nd pros you have listed for UofT are my main reasons for wanting to do the program.

Carleton seems to have the same amount of quantitative training in my specialization, so I am not as worried about that. I am from Toronto and do want to work here after I graduate, so I am concerned that Carleton would put me on a different career track with federal govt. employers in Ottawa. 

I am ok with taking on some more debt to make an investment in my future, but I am having trouble reconciling UofT's program at 16K a year with my offer at Carleton, which includes a scholarship that would essentially have me paying $0 in tuition. The sticker price may be worth it though for where I want to end up and the recognition that UofT has...

[DBT]

Hey everybody, on the topic of the internships and financial matters, does anyone know what happens if (god forbid) a person in the program doesn't get an internship? Is it the case that you have to pay for more school until an internship is completed? I'm just trying to decide if going to UT is an economical choice. Obviously it opens a lot of doors, but I'm nervous about all the contingencies. I already have about $20,000 debt from my two previous degrees, and now it's looking like that number will be closer to $50,000 when all is said and done. Does anyone know how many students fail to get an internship in the summer? Also, does anyone know exactly how UT's loan program works? They claim to cover the difference of what OSAP does, but do they have similar interest rates? 

Regardless, I think I'm going to accept my offer at UT since I didn't apply anywhere else and finding a job with my MA in philosophy has been difficult to say the least. Anything someone can tell me to ease my mind about the cost would be super appreciated. 

Hi JTMurray,

 

FYI, this is the reply I got from Anita @ SPPG re: financial considerations:

 

"The MPP is a graduate professional program. We offer limited additional funding in Year 1, with our program’s allocation of resources being focused on the Internships and Career Services support offered to MPP candidates. Please do check into UTAPS independently. As a professional program, we leave it to the candidate and the UTAPS dept to interact directly. Please note that there are several current MPP students that have qualified for UTAPS funding. Please also look into www.sgs.utoronto.ca and explore other grants, bursaries offered through U of T.

In the second year of the program, based on academic merit standings in year 1 of the MPP program, we do offer some scholarships, fellowships, TAS, etc to the top 30 students in the program."

 

I heard from a SPPG 2014 graduate that there were a couple of students in that cohort who didn't get an internship after their first year. They did their internship in the summer after second year instead. 

I've also heard that the career support they offer to graduates is pretty good, especially if you are open to a variety of opportunities and are not holding out for the most sought after positions in cabinet or anything like that

[DBT]

I am also trying to decided between U of T, Queen's and Carleton. I do have a few questions for the other posters:

 

1. Poliphilo, where did you hear that you can only do an internship with the Federal Service at Queen's?

 

From what I understand, no one is guaranteed an internship position, anywhere. I went to the U of T info session and they were quite insistent on this point. You are *required* to do an internship at the U of T, but there is no preference given to U of T, or any other university at any government organization. The internships are posted and anyone is able to apply. So of course not everyone at Queen's gets into their internship of preference - that's the case at any university.

 

Still, I would love to hear more about what the alumni said - is 10 months enough to learn the skills they need? I do worry that with only one economics class (Carleton and UofT have both Macro and Micro), Queen's is light in that area. However, Carleton seems as quantitatively focused as the U of T.

 

Anyone with any other insight or info?

MPPWonk, this is what someone at Queen's told me re: co-op:

 

"The coop positions are available on a competitive basis - you apply for them and there are interviews, and the Ministry picks their best match. Most of these are at the Ontario public service because they send us a list of available coop positions in December and students apply for those. Last year there were 115 coop positions available and only students from 5 MPA programs can apply. So far, 30 students got a coop position out of the 63 - but not all students decide to apply for those."

 

Let me know what you decide between the three programs, or if you have any other information. I am hoping to have a clear choice made by next weekend

[JTMurray]

Hey DBT, thanks for the info. Very helpful.

[MatthewCasselman]

My two cents:

 

I know people in the OPS who graduated from Ryerson, Toronto, and Queens. TBH I don't think it matters as much as people think where you go. However, with that being said, I think you really need to think about what you want to do afterwards and the efficacy of the degree in achieving your career goals. Consider the following:

 

1. Federal, Provincial, Municipal, or Private? I don't think it matters where you go municipally except perhaps Toronto. Private institutions care much more about institutional rep than public so choose Toronto or Queens if that's the case. If you're interested in federal I would unquestionably attend Carleton or Ottawa. OPS I would argue is more flexible, however, your network is what will likely get you hired. Seeing as most policy jobs in OPS are GTA based, I question why you'd leave Toronto for your degree.

 

2. 2 years is better than 1, in my opinion. I'm not in a rush and can afford to leverage some debt to finance my education. Others may be in a bit more of a rush. If you aren't, consider that a crash course where things are compressed in to 10 months won't allow you to do many or any extra curriculars to pad your resume and reinforce what you've been taught or attend networking events. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by MatthewCasselman

[MPPWonk]

I spoke to Queen's and they do indeed have 30 of 61 students at the OPS, not the federal government.

 

I wondered how a student could do summer courses and an internship at the same time. The answer I got was that the employers are flexible with the start date, so usually students finish in September after having started in July. The summer classes at Queen's also take place over only two weeks, one in May and one in June, so that professional students taking the degree can participate. 

 

Thanks for all the help!

[stressulcer]

so can anyone hazard a guess at when/if a second round of offers might go out?

[Ozone15]

so can anyone hazard a guess at when/if a second round of offers might go out?

 

Deadline to reply for 1st round is first week of April...I would assume second or third week of April second round should be out.

 

I am curious to all those who got the Offer of Admission, and reported on the forum here....how many of you are already decided to go to SPPG or still deciding or decline?? 

[DBT]

Thanks MatthewCasselman - very good points...

 

I think I have now ruled out Queen's, but am still deciding between Carleton and UofT

[Poliphilo]

Recently spoke to UofT SPPG admissions. Thought I'd share a few things.

 

so can anyone hazard a guess at when/if a second round of offers might go out?

UofT said they'd send out second round of offers in early April.

 

UofT said in the last 6 years everyone has gotten an internship who has passed the first year courses. Prior to this 1 or 2 people a year didn't get an internship. They said this was mainly due to personal reasons (e.g. ESL issues, severe interview anxiety). In the unlikely event that you can't get an internship after year 1 you have to get an internship after year 2 to graduate. Most people get an internship though UofT's internal internship postings but you can get apply for external postings. Although everyone has gotten an internship keep in mind some are as short as 6 weeks and many people don't get their first choice. 

 

UofT said about 35 out of the 80 students get financial funding in year 2 an amount between $3-8k. 

 

Deadline to reply for 1st round is first week of April...I would assume second or third week of April second round should be out.

 

I am curious to all those who got the Offer of Admission, and reported on the forum here....how many of you are already decided to go to SPPG or still deciding or decline??  

 

 

I failed to negotiate a higher entrance scholarship with UofT but have accepted UofT anyways. Looking forward to connecting with others in the MPP `17 class! 

 

Edit: spoke with SPPG, not general Graduate school.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Poliphilo

[Ozone15]

Recently spoke to UofT admissions. Thought I'd share a few things.

 

UofT said they'd send out second round of offers in early April.

 

UofT said in the last 6 years everyone has gotten an internship who has passed the first year courses. Prior to this 1 or 2 people a year didn't get an internship. They said this was mainly due to personal reasons (e.g. ESL issues, severe interview anxiety). In the unlikely event that you can't get an internship after year 1 you have to get an internship after year 2 to graduate. Most people get an internship though UofT's internal internship postings but you can get apply for external postings. Although everyone has gotten an internship keep in mind some are as short as 6 weeks and many people don't get their first choice. 

 

UofT said about 35 out of the 80 students get financial funding in year 2 an amount between $3-8k. 

 

 

 

I failed to negotiate a higher entrance scholarship with UofT but have accepted UofT anyways. Looking forward to connecting with others in the MPP `17 class! 

 

Thanks Poliphilo, for sharing. I am still deciding....mainly between my 2 job offers and SPPG. Did you talk to the general UofT Graduate School or SPPG in particular?

[Poliphilo]

Thanks Poliphilo, for sharing. I am still deciding....mainly between my 2 job offers and SPPG. Did you talk to the general UofT Graduate School or SPPG in particular?

SPPG. Edited my post to make that clear. 

[H34LTHP0L1CYN3RD]

Does anyone know if students are considered differently if they apply to more than one program at UofT? Probably a dumb question, and I really wouldn't anticipate as such, but I'm still waiting on SPPG's decision, even though I got into Munk for the MGA program.  I'm confused, not only because I would expect MGA to be more competitive than SPPG, but I'm graduating from a Health Policy degree! My CGPA sits at 3.68, while final year is more like 3.73, plus solid references and SOP. 

 

Thoughts???

Edited March 24, 2015 by H34LTHP0L1CYN3RD

[maozedong]

Does anyone know if students are considered differently if they apply to more than one program at UofT? Probably a dumb question, and I really wouldn't anticipate as such, but I'm still waiting on SPPG's decision, even though I got into Munk for the MGA program.  I'm confused, not only because I would expect MGA to be more competitive than SPPG, but I'm graduating from a Health Policy degree! My CGPA sits at 3.68, while final year is more like 3.73, plus solid references and SOP. 

 

Thoughts???

I was wondering the same thing. Applied to three different programs (MPP, MGA, MA in poli sci) and got waitlisted in all of them.

Edited March 25, 2015 by maozedong

[stressulcer]

maozedong -- you've been contacted/told that you got waitlisted for the MPP program? By e-mail or whatever? Does this mean I can safely assume I'm not in?

[maozedong]

maozedong -- you've been contacted/told that you got waitlisted for the MPP program? By e-mail or whatever? Does this mean I can safely assume I'm not in?

I emailed them and they told me that the first round of offers has been sent out but that they will continue admitting new people until the end of April.

[stressulcer]

I emailed them and they told me that the first round of offers has been sent out but that they will continue admitting new people until the end of April.

Cool, thanks. 

 

Anyone else kinda wigging out? I've been accepted at Queen's but SPPG is my number 1 choice...the waiting is killing me.

[CDNTrish]

Waitlisted for the MGA. 

 

Accepted at uOttawa GSPIA and Syracuse Maxwell. Rejected at HKS.

 

Still waiting to hear from Queen's and Calgary. 

 

Leaning towards Syracuse, as they've offered me a great financial aid package and the program is only 16 months. 

[stressulcer]

Anyone here heard from U of T today? Some people over on Cyburbia have been accepted today.