Ranking & Length of MA in English?

[Folly]

Hi everyone! So I applied for a couple of MA programs in English and have been anxiously waiting for the results. I am grateful to have at least one admission so far from one public school. It's overall ranking in English is very good - around top #10 to 15 according to US News. But when I looked into it's ranking in my field (Renaissance/early modern), it's not ranked at all... I wonder if this will be a problem down the road when I applied for the PhD in the future. Any thoughts?

 

 

I've also been thinking about the length of the program. I feel like in a 2-year MA, I will have more time to take classes, do research, prepare for GREs, compensate for my undergraduate background, and become a stronger candidate in the future. But the strength of this 2-year MA is not the strength of my field. Also, the ranking of 2-year MAs are usually lower than 1-year MAs. Their placement is okay, but not great. This worries me most.

 

The strength of the 1-year MAs I applied for, on the other hand, matches perfectly with mine. Their locations are great, the research of the faculty is on the cutting edge, etc. They are also constantly ranked around top #5 to 10 national-wise. But they only last one year. This means I will have to take a gap year after my MA to apply for PhD. This means I will be kicked out of school in just one year... It is so hard to focus on research without the support of your teachers and colleagues. 

 

I know I probably shouldn't rely too much on US News and I will definitely ask the programs about their placement.. Still, can anyone give me some suggestions? 

Edited February 28, 2015 by Folly

[lyonessrampant]

USNWR rankings are for Ph.D. programs.  I am unaware of any rankings for MA programs.  One-year MA programs (I did one) are difficult in that you do have less time to develop as a scholar and form relationships with professors.  Also, one of the biggest things to avoid is paying (especially substantially) for an MA.  If you can get a scholarship for at least tuition, that's good, but a funded MA even if from a program not perceived to be prestigious shows more investment in you as a scholar than a program from a flashy name brand school that just took $50,000 (or whatever) from you.  Money follows money.  That's why getting funding in the MA is desirable.  I'm guessing the one-year programs you're referring to are probably UChicago's MAPH and/or NYU's MA.  Search these threads and you'll get plenty of perspectives (on both sides) regarding these programs.  After you've done that reading, you might then do a pros/cons list.  My advice, though, is to ignore rank since it doesn't really matter for MAs and learn specifics about the programs.  Do you get support for conference travel, where have these programs placed students in Ph.D. programs, how many have they placed in relation to cohort size (when I did MAPH there were more than 100 people in my cohort so being able to say "we've placed students at all these great places actually shows a small version of the total picture), what kind of funding do they offer, etc.  The other MA threads also have some great advice.

[empress-marmot]

I would ask the programs you've been admitted to for placement information, and rely on that more than rankings. After all, our good friend US News says this about its rankings: 

 

Rankings of doctoral programs in the social sciences and humanities are based solely on the results of peer assessment surveys sent to academics in each discipline. 

 

It's never rude to ask what the program's graduates are doing. How many of them are in PhD programs? Can they name the PhD programs? How many of them are pursuing jobs outside academia? Does the university offer resources for finding employment or applying to PhD programs? Figure out PhD programs you want to attend. Find the profiles of the graduate students, and look at where they received their MAs. 

 

You wouldn't necessarily have to take a gap year with a one-year MA, either. As long as you keep in touch with your previous letter writers, your MA department head or adviser can supplement your application with a nice note saying that in the short time s/he has known you, you have been very professional and your scholarship indicates that you will succeed in a PhD program. (I got this idea from this article: https://chroniclevitae.com/news/684-the-professor-is-in-getting-a-reference-when-you-re-new)

 

I think the established wisdom on the forums is to attend the program with the best placement, funding, and ranking that you can, assuming that the program fits your needs. 

[Ramus]

I'm finishing up a two-year MA now, and I'll say that the extra year has really helped me.

 

Regarding placement: I don't think ranking of the MA at all confines you to a lower-ranked PhD program. One of the guys in my cohort here at Alabama just recently got into Yale -- a jump of about 90 spots on USNews, if we're going by that list. In his case, he was aided by regular communication with POIs there and an insane work ethic. He hasn't presented at any conferences or published anything. He got in purely on the basis of his writing, his excellent test scores, and his efforts to connect with people there. Being from Alabama obviously didn't impede him. 

 

So, for what it's worth, I say that the two-year deal is the better option. Turning down the more prestigious program might sting a bit, but I think it's ultimately the better option if your goal is improving your writing and research in preparation for a PhD program.

[Ramus]

 

You wouldn't necessarily have to take a gap year with a one-year MA, either. As long as you keep in touch with your previous letter writers, your MA department head or adviser can supplement your application with a nice note saying that in the short time s/he has known you, you have been very professional and your scholarship indicates that you will succeed in a PhD program. (I got this idea from this article: https://chroniclevitae.com/news/684-the-professor-is-in-getting-a-reference-when-you-re-new)

 

While this is certainly possible, I'd advise against this plan. If you to go this route, you'd essentially have to start applying as soon as you get to a program. This is not a great idea for a few reasons: 1) you don't yet have the additional knowledge that the MA program is designed to give you; 2) you haven't established those strong connections with your recommenders. A recommendation from someone you've known for a couple of months isn't going to count for much; 3) applying to programs again will take your focus off your coursework. It's tough enough applying while in the 2-year program. If you're applying as soon as you get to a program, chances are that you're not going to be getting as much out of your classes.

 

Again, I'm not saying that this option is unfathomable or that OP is incapable of doing this. To me, though, it just doesn't seem like the wisest idea.

[lyonessrampant]

^Out of upvotes, but yes.  At the one-year program I did, they very, very strongly discouraged people from applying during the program for these reasons.

[empress-marmot]

^Out of upvotes, but yes.  At the one-year program I did, they very, very strongly discouraged people from applying during the program for these reasons.

 

I can't imagine how stressful it would be to apply for PhD programs while in a one year MA. 

 

One of my MA programs gives applicants the chance to feed into the PhD program after one year, but that's a different situation. 

[lyonessrampant]

Definitely.  I totally planned on doing it anyway and wrote a draft of my thesis over the summer before the program and worked through it with the writing tutor for the program and my eventual advisor, but it was still nowhere near enough time to get new letters or prepare a really strong writing sample.  I ended up not doing it (and actually had three years between the end of my MA and beginning my Ph.D.) and don't regret that decision at all.

[Folly]

Hi Ramus, thank you so much for your reply! 

 

I'm finishing up a two-year MA now, and I'll say that the extra year has really helped me.

 

Regarding placement: I don't think ranking of the MA at all confines you to a lower-ranked PhD program. One of the guys in my cohort here at Alabama just recently got into Yale -- a jump of about 90 spots on USNews, if we're going by that list. In his case, he was aided by regular communication with POIs there and an insane work ethic. He hasn't presented at any conferences or published anything. He got in purely on the basis of his writing, his excellent test scores, and his efforts to connect with people there. Being from Alabama obviously didn't impede him. 

 

So, for what it's worth, I say that the two-year deal is the better option. Turning down the more prestigious program might sting a bit, but I think it's ultimately the better option if your goal is improving your writing and research in preparation for a PhD program.

 

Your friend's example is inspiring. To be honest, I was and still am a little bit disheartened. I talked with the admission officer at one of the Ivy League programs in the west coast to find out about what kind of students they are looking for, and he told me frankly that they have a strong preference for undergrads from first-tier universities and that unless my MA comes from a first-tier university, it's not gonna increase my chance of getting into the PhD program. Personally, I find this very off-putting, prideful, and disappointing, but this seems to be the cruel reality of the academic world. It's really encouraging to know that there are schools that do not label people according to the schools they go to but the effort they put in their work. I wonder how he approaches the POIs. I have tried that but to no avail. A lot of professors simply don't have extra time or energy to give you some pointers if you are not one of their students. Maybe they're just not that into my research... or maybe I wasn't doing it right!? Do you have any suggestions as to how to approach and keep in touch with the POIs?

 

 

While this is certainly possible, I'd advise against this plan. If you to go this route, you'd essentially have to start applying as soon as you get to a program. This is not a great idea for a few reasons: 1) you don't yet have the additional knowledge that the MA program is designed to give you; 2) you haven't established those strong connections with your recommenders. A recommendation from someone you've known for a couple of months isn't going to count for much; 3) applying to programs again will take your focus off your coursework. It's tough enough applying while in the 2-year program. If you're applying as soon as you get to a program, chances are that you're not going to be getting as much out of your classes.

 

Again, I'm not saying that this option is unfathomable or that OP is incapable of doing this. To me, though, it just doesn't seem like the wisest idea.

 

And thanks for these wise advices! I will definitely keep them in mind.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Folly

[empress-marmot]

 I wonder how he approaches the POIs. I have tried that but to no avail. A lot of professors simply don't have extra time or energy to give you some pointers if you are not one of their students. Maybe they're just not that into my research... or maybe I wasn't doing it right!? Do you have any suggestions as to how to approach and keep in touch with the POIs?

 

Interesting question. I'd be interested to read other people's ideas for contacting POIs. While I'm not sure if I'll do it when I apply to PhD programs, I have a plan:

 

1. Find a scholar at each school whose work interests me.

2. Read that professor's articles.

3. Email the professor with an intelligent question about his/her article, mentioning that I'm using it for a paper I'm writing for (insert class). 

 

Professors probably get tons of unsolicited emails from hopeful students each month, and a lot of them just click delete. Maybe approaching them as a fellow scholar while acknowledging their expertise might make them pause.They may answer my question, in which case I'll have a stronger paper.

They may ask to read the paper I'm writing about them (wishful thinking, I know). And they may delete the email anyway. 

[echo449]

Your friend's example is inspiring. To be honest, I was and still am a little bit disheartened. I talked with the admission officer at one of the Ivy League programs in the west coast to find out about what kind of students they are looking for, and he told me frankly that they have a strong preference for undergrads from first-tier universities and that unless my MA comes from a first-tier university, it's not gonna increase my chance of getting into the PhD program. 

To be sure, that admission officer probably has no connection to the english admissions committee, and a bag of salt should be carried around with whatever advice they gave you. 

[heliogabalus]

(There aren't any Ivy League schools on the West Coast.)

[lyonessrampant]

^Was also going to say that, but I assumed perhaps the OP was confusing Stanford as an Ivy?

[echo449]

Some schools have grad fairs, and it's not uncommon for a representative of, say, the graduate school of XYZ to be in attendance.