Ever transferred PhD schools?

[nncy1105]

Hi,

I have a somewhat delicate issue: Going to a very good PhD program this Fall, but contemplating on applying to my undergrad school/hometown schools for next year because of a personal reason (read below if interested). PhD program is ranked slightly higher than my undergrad school and I didn't apply to my undergrad because of the advice to explore outside it. Does anyone have personal experience or know anyone with experience on how to handle applying to another school while the current school is funding and training you? If I choose to do so, I want to do it with respect to all involved parties and that is why I would like some personal advice. Thanks!

Personal reason synopsis: It's for a guy (I know, ppl are shaking heads, but don't - it's worth it to me). He is one that I've known for 8 years and was together for 5 years. In my early years I traveled and did a ton of stuff. He sat back being patient and let me do it. I was not always there for him, but he still supported me. Broke up several times because I wanted him to have a girlfriend that can be there physically and more daily for him, but each time he still wanted to try to overcome the long distance. We broke up a final time and from that time until now, he has dated but never had a girlfriend. BUT he almost fell in love with someone else. Through our hanging out these past 3-4 months, we realized we still love each other. And I realized I can't bear that he falls in love with someone else and that maybe for once, I should put us first. And getting a PhD at a prestigious university cannot compensate for the fact that I may lose him, lose us, while being away for 5-6 years. So on top of that, I had originally intended to apply to my hometown schools (good schools/family & friends all here) and hadn't because of persuasion to explore. So now I am willing to endure a less pleasant transfer scenario and the application process again because I think our love is worth the fight/sacrifice. Only I would like to approach it with the utmost respect to my PhD institution and cause less/no trouble for my hometown schools or myself. And that is it so please help if you can.

[aginath]

When I was visiting programs, I spoke with one of the students at a school in the midwest who wasn't really happy in her track of the program. When I last spoke to her, she mentioned transferring back to the program where she did her Master's. I'll send her a link to this thread on FB and see if she can chime in.

[kahlan_amnell]

Sorry, you're probably not going to like what I have to say about this.

Don't do it. If you were engaged or married, maybe it would make sense. But for some person you're just dating, it really isn't worth it.

If you transfer, you'll probably loose a lot of credits, maybe even all of them. Also, if your department is funding you, they might resent you for transferring, and that could be bad for your professional reputation. If you're serious about this, I might suggest just waiting a year and applying to the school you want to go to rather than spending a year on credits that very possibly might not transfer and possibly annoying people you might need to work with later.

[thepoorstockinger]

Again, concentrating on your reasoning:

It depends on your field, but transferring to your hometown U may in fact hurt your chances of staying with this guy for two reasons:

1) If there is a big difference between the reputation and quality of the two programs then attending the better program may give you more options in the future to determine where it is you end up living. The life of an academic involves not getting to choose where you live, having better graduate training makes it slightly more likely that you will have multiple job options. If you take a significant step down you may be in a situation where you're forced to take a job in the middle of nowhere, far away from your partner because you don't have other options. (This is not a "OMG go to the big name school!" recomendation, this is a suggestion to go to the school that will train you the best and which offers the best job prospects) I would also suggest that if the guy isn't willing to understand that being romantically involved with an academic means moving around all the time then this relationship simply won't work unless you abandon the pursuit of academia.

2) If you switch schools and end up hating being in the PhD program at Hometown U then you're going to transfer that disappointment onto your partner.

I would, at the very least, take a year at the new school and see how you like it before even considering the switch.

[liszt85]

Again, concentrating on your reasoning:

It depends on your field, but transferring to your hometown U may in fact hurt your chances of staying with this guy for two reasons:

1) If there is a big difference between the reputation and quality of the two programs then attending the better program may give you more options in the future to determine where it is you end up living. The life of an academic involves not getting to choose where you live, having better graduate training makes it slightly more likely that you will have multiple job options. If you take a significant step down you may be in a situation where you're forced to take a job in the middle of nowhere, far away from your partner because you don't have other options. (This is not a "OMG go to the big name school!" recomendation, this is a suggestion to go to the school that will train you the best and which offers the best job prospects) I would also suggest that if the guy isn't willing to understand that being romantically involved with an academic means moving around all the time then this relationship simply won't work unless you abandon the pursuit of academia.

2) If you switch schools and end up hating being in the PhD program at Hometown U then you're going to transfer that disappointment onto your partner.

I would, at the very least, take a year at the new school and see how you like it before even considering the switch.

^ Excellent advice! Especially as "he almost fell in love with someone else". I'm no one to comment on the strength of your relationship as its your business. I was in a long distance relationship for 4 years. I never dated anyone else, neither did she. We met once or twice a year. We got married in June this year and she will be accompanying me halfway across the globe where I'll be doing my PhD. She will look around for a good academic program for herself once she gets there. Do you think your guy can do something similar for you (esp if he's not an academic himself and would find interesting work at a different location from where he is now)? If so, you should consider asking him to move to where you are than giving up your place at a better university and more importantly, wasting a year's worth of funding which could have gone to some other deserving person. Universities fund graduate students with the expectation of commitment and contribution to their research activities. One year of research makes very little difference. No entering grad student can do substantial research work during their first year of studies.

Its solely your decision finally.. good luck! You asked for opinions, hence this.

[jasper.milvain]

1) If there is a big difference between the reputation and quality of the two programs then attending the better program may give you more options in the future to determine where it is you end up living. The life of an academic involves not getting to choose where you live, having better graduate training makes it slightly more likely that you will have multiple job options. If you take a significant step down you may be in a situation where you're forced to take a job in the middle of nowhere, far away from your partner because you don't have other options. (This is not a "OMG go to the big name school!" recomendation, this is a suggestion to go to the school that will train you the best and which offers the best job prospects)

This is great advice. If you add to this the fact that the lower ranked school in this scenario is also your undergraduate school, it will even further restrict you on the job market.

I would also suggest that if the guy isn't willing to understand that being romantically involved with an academic means moving around all the time then this relationship simply won't work unless you abandon the pursuit of academia.

YES. There are more long distance couples in academia than you can imagine, and even more people with one partner who follows the other as the 'trailing spouse' (a horrible term, but there it is). Given that nobody wants to do long distance, you have to conclude that there are compelling professional reasons for not turning down good programs, good jobs, or other good opportunities for a relationship. If he's not willing to move for you now for your PhD, what's going to happen five years down the road when you're packing up to go to a two year postdoc, or an 8 month limited term position? and another? and another? What happens if you get a tenure track job offer in an undesirable location? Moving to where he is right now is only a short-term fix. This issue will come up again.

And finally, I know how hard long distance is. Missing somebody can overwhelm you so much that it's like a drug. I know I didn't think straight all the time when I was desperate to see my then-boyfriend, now-husband. And since you guys have only just fired up your relationship, you're also experiencing what's called New Relationship Euphoria. It's that blissed out state where your judgment is compromised and you don't bat an eye at doing incredibly public, incredibly mushy things that you would have rolled your eyes at six months ago. My point is that both of these emotional states cloud your judgment, and that both of them are powerful, but temporary. I bet if you let things sit for awhile, you will get a whole new perspective on what you want to do. Don't make any permanent decisions while you're a. in the early stages of an intense relationship, b. transitioning to grad school, and c. moving to a new city. Those are all huge, confusing shifts. Don't rush into anything.

I will say, though, that I've done the long distance thing before with a guy who resented that my grad school kept me away from him, and didn't understand why school took up so much of my time. He wanted me to move back to my hometown right away, and would say things like "Aren't I worth it? Isn't this important to you? How can you put school ahead of us?" That got me for a time, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized how incredibly manipulative he was being. And you know what? School WAS more important than that relationship in the end. It's OK to put your career first. Right after him, I met my husband. He hates moving and hates change, but he picked up his life and moved to be with me for my MA, and we're packing up to move everything again for my PhD.

This isn't to say "meet a doormat who will move for you" but simply to say that if you are with the right person, they will want to see you get your PhD at the best possible place. They will be proud of the sacrifices you make to your work, and your dedication. Long distance or in person, they will support you and take your program seriously.

If this relationship is going to work, it WILL work long distance. If it won't survive the distance, it likely won't survive the other stresses of life, especially an academic life.

[nncy1105]

Hi everyone,

Thank you everyone for contributing and please continue to do so if you have any new insights. Also, new people who haven't chimed in, please do so. Hopefully, I can hear from someone with personal experience of transferring in a PhD program, too. I am not necessarily making any decision at this time. My guy had also suggested I go to my grad school, get into the roll of things and then decide. I agreed with him as well as others who made the suggestion to try it out for a year or so. Although, I would say we are not in the euphoria of a new stage, I wouldn't deny that we may have some similarities to one. See, we were together in 2001 to ~2006 with several breakups mainly due to my being away alot (5mths in Japan, 3 times of ~3-5mths in Houston). He has always and continues to be supportive of my academic pursuit. But following our final breakup and up until ~4 months ago when we started hanging out again, we were quite distant, mostly because of me so it is only natural that an opportunity to fall in love with another could arise in 3 years when we were not together or even close. And he would gladly move, if his mom was healthy and capable of being on her own, and I think of this as an admirable quality. So in essence, whether we will have a future will depend on my decision and a bit of fate. I can't ask him to wait for me for "another" 5 years essentially - it is too much and I don't want to do that to someone I love.

I would say my undergrad is only a few schools below my grad school in terms of ranking so assuming they accept me, I would think it is not too much of a matter. However, if they don't accept me and another school in my hometown does, they are about 20 schools or so lower in ranking. My field is in the biological science research field and besides ranking for the name sake, there is a difference in the expertise and technology available at schools depending on the ranking so I am a bit concerned there if I didn't get back into my undergrad and got into the other school. But even so, I'm willing to do so, if I feel it is worth the risk. I have to believe my guy and I will work out if I move back, but also that if we don't I will still be happy. See, I am not inclined to pursue academia as a professor or such. I want to work in government or industry. I wouldn't mind working academia, but I don't think I would want my own lab even if so. So in a way, the ranking of the school for name sake, is less relevant. And I realized that I value more than my career in looking at the long run of what is called life. And I would say, I don't want to spend my future with anyone else but this guy. However, I feel I can get education and get a job anywhere even if it's not the most ideal, but maybe it is/will be.

My plan after all my thoughts and all inputs: Go to grad school and in about 2 months or more, if I still feel so inclined to, I will apply. If not, we'll see what happens.

But if I do apply, my dilemma is how to handle it in terms of what to say to my grad school and whatever other logistics. Thus, I would like to hear some personal experience(s).

Once again, thank you everyone. It means a lot that so many have already chimed in. It makes it feel less lonely in handling my 100+ thoughts and worries.

[glasses]

Hi everyone,

Thank you everyone for contributing and please continue to do so if you have any new insights. Also, new people who haven't chimed in, please do so. Hopefully, I can hear from someone with personal experience of transferring in a PhD program, too. I am not necessarily making any decision at this time. My guy had also suggested I go to my grad school, get into the roll of things and then decide. I agreed with him as well as others who made the suggestion to try it out for a year or so. Although, I would say we are not in the euphoria of a new stage, I wouldn't deny that we may have some similarities to one. See, we were together in 2001 to ~2006 with several breakups mainly due to my being away alot (5mths in Japan, 3 times of ~3-5mths in Houston). He has always and continues to be supportive of my academic pursuit. But following our final breakup and up until ~4 months ago when we started hanging out again, we were quite distant, mostly because of me so it is only natural that an opportunity to fall in love with another could arise in 3 years when we were not together or even close. And he would gladly move, if his mom was healthy and capable of being on her own, and I think of this as an admirable quality. So in essence, whether we will have a future will depend on my decision and a bit of fate. I can't ask him to wait for me for "another" 5 years essentially - it is too much and I don't want to do that to someone I love.

I would say my undergrad is only a few schools below my grad school in terms of ranking so assuming they accept me, I would think it is not too much of a matter. However, if they don't accept me and another school in my hometown does, they are about 20 schools or so lower in ranking. My field is in the biological science research field and besides ranking for the name sake, there is a difference in the expertise and technology available at schools depending on the ranking so I am a bit concerned there if I didn't get back into my undergrad and got into the other school. But even so, I'm willing to do so, if I feel it is worth the risk. I have to believe my guy and I will work out if I move back, but also that if we don't I will still be happy. See, I am not inclined to pursue academia as a professor or such. I want to work in government or industry. I wouldn't mind working academia, but I don't think I would want my own lab even if so. So in a way, the ranking of the school for name sake, is less relevant. And I realized that I value more than my career in looking at the long run of what is called life. And I would say, I don't want to spend my future with anyone else but this guy. However, I feel I can get education and get a job anywhere even if it's not the most ideal, but maybe it is/will be.

My plan after all my thoughts and all inputs: Go to grad school and in about 2 months or more, if I still feel so inclined to, I will apply. If not, we'll see what happens.

But if I do apply, my dilemma is how to handle it in terms of what to say to my grad school and whatever other logistics. Thus, I would like to hear some personal experience(s).

Once again, thank you everyone. It means a lot that so many have already chimed in. It makes it feel less lonely in handling my 100+ thoughts and worries.

I haven't been through this, but as for what you would say to your grad school, my gut instinct is to be apologetic and tell them that a personal emergency/situation has forced you to reconsider (after all, it'd be kind of true). Try to keep in contact with them the best you can, and apologize, apologize, apologize.

[spaulding]

I've been in your position......and have friends that work/will work for the gov.

I applied to the same school my girlfriend went to, and unfortunately, I didnt get the funding needed to move. We're still friends, but in retrospect, I dont regret the move. Similar to you and your partner, my x and I were on and off again, and closeness could not change the fact that we were growing apart. Graduate training plus life changed our courses.......

Young graduate students must realize the networks are small, reputation is all you have, and perception is reality. Transferring schools signals that you might not be serious about the graduate degree, and once people have that view of you, it tints their evaluation of you......which, as you can imagine shapes your interactions.

My best advice is to finish the coursework in your department (likely two years). After you finish coursework, say something like "I need a break" and if you still enjoy this person, go with them. Sit out for two years, gain work experience, and reapply to phd programs once you figure things out. And for the love all humanity, DO NOT share any of this with anyone in your school.

Academics are gossips..... :0)

spaulding

[Hairold]

If you really want to transfer then just do it, there is no need to apologize. Try to keep the number of people who know to a minimum, though.