Desperately need some advice...Notre Dame MTS or not?

[RD_Paul]

Hi all,

 

I have commented on here quite sparingly, but I could use some advice for any who have experience or who are willing to give some advice.

 

Here's the situation. I have a BA (4.0 GPA) from a "highly selective" state liberal arts school, and I am finishing my M.Div. at my denominational seminary this semester. It is a good school, but it is small and certainly won't get me in anywhere on prestige. I will graduate with a 4.0 with advanced knowledge of Greek and Hebrew and with intermediate knowledge of Latin, Aramaic, and Syriac. I even have a bit of teaching experience, having taught Beginning Greek one semester. I have a decent GRE score but am retaking it this summer.  I have also had the chance publish a few articles. Lastly, I am confident that my letters of recommendation would be outstanding.

 

I feel quite ready to do PhD work (I would apply this upcoming fall), but I applied to Notre Dame's MTS in Biblical Studies this year, and I got in (They rejected me three years ago, so I wanted to try again just to see if I would be competitive). I just visited, and it's certainly a great place.

 

Anyway, I am trying to decide if I should spend two more years on an MTS or just wait until the fall and apply to the doctoral programs in which I am interested: Duke (ThD, PhD), Baylor, Emory, St. Andrews, Notre Dame, Fuller. As I see it, Notre Dame is a fantastic program, but I'm not sure if I need/want to spend two more years of my and my wife's life in class if I don't have to. I met with James VanderKam at ND, and he said that, yes, it seems that I am ready for PhD work, but that an MTS from Notre Dame would certainly "open a lot of doors" for me.

 

Anyway, this is a tough decision, as you might imagine. I would appreciate any advice.

[Isaac32]

Just out of curiosity, did you apply to any PhD programs this previous round? 

For me, it comes down to this question. If you applied and didn't have much success, then an MTS from Notre Dame might help. I have known a lot of people who were accepted to great PhD programs from small schools. 

I suppose you could go for it and apply in the fall. If you get accepted to a good PhD program you can just transfer before you finish at ND.

[RD_Paul]

Just out of curiosity, did you apply to any PhD programs this previous round? 

For me, it comes down to this question. If you applied and didn't have much success, then an MTS from Notre Dame might help. I have known a lot of people who were accepted to great PhD programs from small schools. 

I suppose you could go for it and apply in the fall. If you get accepted to a good PhD program you can just transfer before you finish at ND.

 

No, I decided to wait to apply to PhD programs, though now I'm wishing I had.

[Isaac32]

No, I decided to wait to apply to PhD programs, though now I'm wishing I had.

Given your details, as long as your GRE scores are above the 80th percentile in V and AW and you have a good SOP and writing sample, I believe you would do well applying to PhD programs in the fall. That said, an MTS from Notre Dame certainly won't hinder your chances. It might be a pain to pack up and move to South Bend, though.

[marXian]

Are you wanting to do NT? If so, the MTS would certainly better your chances at getting into a top tier program and would all but guarantee your acceptance to somewhere like Fuller provided you did your homework and made contact with the appropriate people there (I'm an alum.) Giving yourself as much language training as possible it going to help a lot (though there are others here who can speak better to that than I can.) Getting to advanced levels with the relevant languages is going to show you are extremely serious about doing PhD work in a language-intensive discipline. 

[Enki Knows]

It sounds to me like you are quite ready to apply to PhD programs.  In Bible, probably the biggest reason to get a master's degree (whether MDiv, MTS, MA, etc.) is to build experience with biblical languages.  From what you have said, it sounds like you have that more than covered.  The most important parts of your application are going to be your personal statement and your writing sample, so if I were you, I would work on making those two elements absolutely stellar, rather than spending your time getting a second master's degree.  Just to prove my point, the other admit to the PhD program in Hebrew Bible that I will be starting next year (one of the top programs in the country) does not have a Master's degree at all.  He is just finishing his bachelor's and he got in to PhD programs at my school and Harvard.  This is obviously an usual case, and yes, his bachelor's will be from an Ivy, but he has the language experience, and more importantly, his interests were sufficiently aligned with the professors at these schools.  

[menge]

As of others have said, sounds like you area ready for doctoral work. So taking a little time off and brushing things up and really putting together good & polished PhD apps could be a good option, especially if you can work and put away a little cash before you embark on a PhD. 

 

That said, I found myself in a similar(ish) situation this past year. I'm finishing up an MA in another field, and was facing putting in PhD apps, doing a second MA, or taking the year off. I ended up putting in a couple of applications to philosophy and religion departments at schools that I could commute to and decided if I got full funding at any of them I'd go for the 2nd MA. Granted, it helps my spouse has a good job already in the area so it was a pretty easy decision to commit to more time here. Still, since I (like you) didn't put in and PhD apps, I'm looking at next fall as the next application season. But by that time, I'll be 1/2 done with the 2nd (funded) MA. So I look at it like I'm really only losing 1 year instead of two, and I'm adding a 2nd MA from a good department that will likely enhance my intellectual development as well as boost chances of getting into better PhD programs. 

 

So if it were me, I'd probably do the MTS from Notre Dame if it was fully funded. But I think someone else could easily and reasonably come to the opposite conclusion. 

[RD_Paul]

As of others have said, sounds like you area ready for doctoral work. So taking a little time off and brushing things up and really putting together good & polished PhD apps could be a good option, especially if you can work and put away a little cash before you embark on a PhD. 

 

That said, I found myself in a similar(ish) situation this past year. I'm finishing up an MA in another field, and was facing putting in PhD apps, doing a second MA, or taking the year off. I ended up putting in a couple of applications to philosophy and religion departments at schools that I could commute to and decided if I got full funding at any of them I'd go for the 2nd MA. Granted, it helps my spouse has a good job already in the area so it was a pretty easy decision to commit to more time here. Still, since I (like you) didn't put in and PhD apps, I'm looking at next fall as the next application season. But by that time, I'll be 1/2 done with the 2nd (funded) MA. So I look at it like I'm really only losing 1 year instead of two, and I'm adding a 2nd MA from a good department that will likely enhance my intellectual development as well as boost chances of getting into better PhD programs. 

 

So if it were me, I'd probably do the MTS from Notre Dame if it was fully funded. But I think someone else could easily and reasonably come to the opposite conclusion. 

 

Wow, yours is a very similar situation. I actually only live 25 minutes from Notre Dame (on a good weather day). My seminary is only in the next city over, and my wife has a great job doing what she feels called to do. So, we wouldn't have to move.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I appreciate the input immensely!

[LauraR]

It's really only one more year, really. Either you work for a year and apply in the fall, or you attend ND for two years, apply in your second year, and go on to your PhD. So you really only "lose" one year--and it's a fully funded year you can spend on research and networking for your PhD and career. I say go to ND.

[Averroes MD]

It's really only one more year, really. Either you work for a year and apply in the fall, or you attend ND for two years, apply in your second year, and go on to your PhD. So you really only "lose" one year--and it's a fully funded year you can spend on research and networking for your PhD and career. I say go to ND.

Yeah it's between having a gap year or one extra year with a much better CV.