How much debt are you willing to take on for your degree?

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

After reading this thread I feel bad about the debt-load I was considering 

 

After accounting for funding, Sanford and Heinz would still cost me ~$89k and ~$79k respectively (assuming I can't work/get an assistantship, and assuming my cost of living will be ~$20k a year in Durham and Pittsburgh).

 

I guess if I want to go I'll have to suck it up and rely on IBR and public service loan forgiveness. I just hope I'm not making a devastating mistake.

 

Is this on top of undergraduate loans? Or would this be your only student loan debt? 

[MJA87]

Is this on top of undergraduate loans? Or would this be your only student loan debt? 

 

This would be my only debt period.

[Nocho]

I am very hesitant to head into a program under the assumption that I will use the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. At this point, I don't want to rule out finding a great job in the private sector. Honestly, I'm surprised so many of you feel confident enough you will find and keep a public service position for 10 years after graduating that you will take out over $75,000 in loans. I just don't feel comfortable restricting my prospects like that. Nor do I want to do Income-Based Repayment and let the interest kill me from the very beginning. I am going into this with the attitude that after graduation I will land a private sector job and aggressively begin paying off my loans.

 

Yesterday I went through the math to determine how much grad school is going to cost me for the first year only. In-state tuition minus a small scholarship is going to cost me $17,000. That's not so bad, but I need $21,000 to cover 12 months of living expenses. At the moment I have $10,000 saved up. If I take out the maximum in federal loans ($20,500, not counting the PLUS loans because the interest is higher and I want to avoid that) and continue to pay my undergrad loans, then after a full 12 months I will be at -$10,500. The math looks like this:

 

$10,000 (Savings)

+20,500 (Federal Loan)

- 17,000 (Tuition)

-   3,000 (Minimum Undergraduate Loan Payments for 12 Months)

- 21,000 (Cost of Living for 12 Months)

- 10,500

 

This means I will have to find a part-time job or paid internship to support me while in school, hold out hope for an assistantship (which I don't get the feeling is offered to many first-year students), or, the choice I really would like to avoid, take out additional loans. I have been aggressively paying off undergraduate loans, but volunteering for 2 years has really cost me financially (so far).

 

It's scary taking out so much money and digging a deeper hole of debt, but I feel like the network opportunities in the city I want to remain will make my decision worthwhile. At this point, I'm not doing what I love, and I want to take my career in a new direction. Without going back to school and gaining new skills, I'm not sure I would be able to achieve my goals for a long time.

 

For anyone trying to figure everything out, this is a good calculator to figure out what your interest will be each month. If you take out $50,000 in loans at 6.2% (the federal interest rate), your interest payment (not counting principal, of course) will be $254.63, which means in a year you will pay over $3,000 in interest alone. Though not great, that's doable, and I hate the idea of going higher than that.

 

In the end, I agree with what DCB said above:

 

Alright, I'm not sure this place is exactly representative because, at least from my perspective, this forum is EXTREMELY cost and risk averse.

 

Not only is this forum cost and risk averse (not necessarily a bad thing, of course, as this certainly applies to me), but I think those roaming these boards are probably getting better funding offers than your average applicant. In my opinion, it makes it a little tougher to decide if the debt is worth the investment when you're looking around and people have been offered $40,000 a year or a full-ride plus a generous stipend. I don't think those are even close to indicative of what the majority of the schools offer. It's really a shame MPA and MPP programs aren't better funded.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

I am very hesitant to head into a program under the assumption that I will use the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. At this point, I don't want to rule out finding a great job in the private sector. Honestly, I'm surprised so many of you feel confident enough you will find and keep a public service position for 10 years after graduating that you will take out over $75,000 in loans. I just don't feel comfortable restricting my prospects like that. Nor do I want to do Income-Based Repayment and let the interest kill me from the very beginning. I am going into this with the attitude that after graduation I will land a private sector job and aggressively begin paying off my loans.

 

Yesterday I went through the math to determine how much grad school is going to cost me for the first year only. In-state tuition minus a small scholarship is going to cost me $17,000. That's not so bad, but I need $21,000 to cover 12 months of living expenses. At the moment I have $10,000 saved up. If I take out the maximum in federal loans ($20,500, not counting the PLUS loans because the interest is higher and I want to avoid that) and continue to pay my undergrad loans, then after a full 12 months I will be at -$10,500. The math looks like this:

 

$10,000 (Savings)

+20,500 (Federal Loan)

- 17,000 (Tuition)

-   3,000 (Minimum Undergraduate Loan Payments for 12 Months)

- 21,000 (Cost of Living for 12 Months)

- 10,500

 

This means I will have to find a part-time job or paid internship to support me while in school, hold out hope for an assistantship (which I don't get the feeling is offered to many first-year students), or, the choice I really would like to avoid, take out additional loans. I have been aggressively paying off undergraduate loans, but volunteering for 2 years has really cost me financially (so far).

 

It's scary taking out so much money and digging a deeper hole of debt, but I feel like the network opportunities in the city I want to remain will make my decision worthwhile. At this point, I'm not doing what I love, and I want to take my career in a new direction. Without going back to school and gaining new skills, I'm not sure I would be able to achieve my goals for a long time.

 

For anyone trying to figure everything out, this is a good calculator to figure out what your interest will be each month. If you take out $50,000 in loans at 6.2% (the federal interest rate), your interest payment (not counting principal, of course) will be $254.63, which means in a year you will pay over $3,000 in interest alone. Though not great, that's doable, and I hate the idea of going higher than that.

 

In the end, I agree with what DCB said above:

 

 

 

Not only is this forum cost and risk averse (not necessarily a bad thing, of course, as this certainly applies to me), but I think those roaming these boards are probably getting better funding offers than your average applicant. In my opinion, it makes it a little tougher to decide if the debt is worth the investment when you're looking around and people have been offered $40,000 a year or a full-ride plus a generous stipend. I don't think those are even close to indicative of what the majority of the schools offer. It's really a shame MPA and MPP programs aren't better funded.

 

Not to be debbie downer, but you won't have that $10,000 savings in the second year.  Part time work during the school year and additional work during the summer could alleviate that $10,500 need in the first year.  In the second year, you would need to have a pretty decent paying part time job or take out some of those higher interest loans. 

[Nocho]

Not to be debbie downer, but you won't have that $10,000 savings in the second year.  Part time work during the school year and additional work during the summer could alleviate that $10,500 need in the first year.  In the second year, you would need to have a pretty decent paying part time job or take out some of those higher interest loans. 

 

Yeah, I'm aware of that, and I realize the second year will be even tougher financially. I'm fully employed now and, as much as I dislike my job, I could probably keep working here part-time if I want. I'd rather spend my time networking, joining student clubs and taking on internships, though. I have a feeling it's going to be tough to find the right balance.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

This would be my only debt period.

 

If those schools can provide you the job that's pay justifies the debt, it could be worth it.  Plus, you probably will be able to get some form of part time work and/or paid internships and cut the estimated debt by a conservative $15,000.  

[crisisdiplomacy]

There's no way in hell I'm going through this process again-funding or no funding. Recommendation letters, studying and paying for GRes, SOPs,application fees, waiting.What...? I remember when I first started applying and then joined this site, I was paranoid as hell about funding. Now, its whatever. I'm lucky to have gotten into somewhere straight out of undergrad.Its doesn't have to be the top school...just somewhere that I will give me opportunity beyond the classroom. I know people who came out of undergrad with debt of 80+k because they were determined to get into a 'top' undergrad institution. Some were able to pay it off in 4 years since they had attained 6-figure jobs. I guess at this point I am thankful to have gone to a less known and cheap undergrad program where I will come out with minimum debt. Then, since I plan to work a career in the federal government, there's that Loan Forgiveness program. I also have no other obstacles hindering me from taking on loans at the moment.

 

 

Alright, I'm not sure this place is exactly representative because, at least from my perspective, this forum is EXTREMELY cost and risk averse.

 

There are so many people on here that fret over the financials and debt and rightfully so. But, at the end of the day, you have to decide whether you're going to make decisions based upon saving money or taking risks and actually going for what you want. Those who are married, have kids, have large debts from other sources- those are different circumstances. But if you're moving to either DC or New York and you've got the option to go to your dream school then just DO IT.

 

Y'all gotta believe in yourself more. Go in with the attitude of "I'm taking on this debt, but I'm gonna work my ass off, get a killer job, and in time I'll pay it off. And I'll know that I did things my way." And, you know what, if things don't work out exactly to plan, I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.

 

This forum is filled with extremely smart people and the last thing I want to have at the end of the day are a bunch of people, 10 years down the line, wondering what could have been if they just went for it.

 

 

I'm right there with ya'll OneLove21 ad DCB. I'm GOING FOR IT. I'm straight from undergrad and my GRE scores could definitely improve, which probably explains why I didn't receive much funding but I don't care. This process was long and expensive, and cost around $1,000, not to mention the time I spent stressing out studying, and re-writing and emailing etc etc. and there's no possible way I am going through it again. I will take my no-funding at SAIS and try to obtain a paid internship/job and then be happy taking my loan forgiveness from the government. Not that I'm not being financially cautious, but jobs are scarce with JUST a Political Science degree. And I'm not going to get a job out of my field just for the sake of money, because that's not even going to help a future application. For some people money matters the most but for me that's not the case. I'm taking my loans and I will pay them off happily.  

Edited March 25, 2015 by crisisdiplomacy

[DCB]

I'm right there with ya'll OneLove21 ad DCB. I'm GOING FOR IT. I'm straight from undergrad and my GRE scores could definitely improve, which probably explains why I didn't receive much funding but I don't care. This process was long and expensive, and cost around $1,000, not to mention the time I spent stressing out studying, and re-writing and emailing etc etc. and there's no possible way I am going through it again. I will take my no-funding at SAIS and try to obtain a paid internship/job and then be happy taking my loan forgiveness from the government. Not that I'm not being financially cautious, but jobs are scarce with JUST a Political Science degree. And I'm not going to get a job out of my field just for the sake of money, because that's not even going to help a future application. For some people money matters the most but for me that's not the case. I'm taking my loans and I will pay them off happily.  

 

Yeah, it's easy to get discouraged because they're are so many people here that have worked or been in the military and are able to amass considerable funding. For those of us straight outta undergrad, it's not as easy as "just work for a bit." The job market doesn't really work that way anymore. I'm with ya in that I don't wanna go through this process again, it was bad enough one time. And I don't see myself doing anything remarkable enough in the next year or two with just a Poly Sci BA that'll get my funding way up. I'd rather just head into my Master's now while I'm motivated and young enough (23) that I can make things work with relatively no strings attached.

[ZebraFinch]

Yeah, it's easy to get discouraged because they're are so many people here that have worked or been in the military and are able to amass considerable funding. For those of us straight outta undergrad, it's not as easy as "just work for a bit." The job market doesn't really work that way anymore. I'm with ya in that I don't wanna go through this process again, it was bad enough one time. And I don't see myself doing anything remarkable enough in the next year or two with just a Poly Sci BA that'll get my funding way up. I'd rather just head into my Master's now while I'm motivated and young enough (23) that I can make things work with relatively no strings attached.

 

But debt is a huge "string" that's attached to you. And if you wait a few years, work a tad, get great GRE scores, etc... you'll have a better profile, more connections, etc and will be likelier to get funding.

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but unless you make a ton of great connections in an MA, and are lucky, you're likely to face the same tough job market in two years. Truth is our field is competitive as heck and getting your foot in the door is hard, grad degree or not. Forking over 80k for slightly better odds, I'm not sure it's worth it. Personally, I won a scholarship that gives me priority hiring in the federal government, and I've managed just one job offer in the huge amount of apps I submitted, so I don't have much faith that an MA will prove much different. On the other hand, maybe MA programs are exactly the place to meet the right people and find work.

Edited March 25, 2015 by ZebraFinch

[Atlas445]

I'm right there with ya'll OneLove21 ad DCB. I'm GOING FOR IT. I'm straight from undergrad and my GRE scores could definitely improve, which probably explains why I didn't receive much funding but I don't care. This process was long and expensive, and cost around $1,000, not to mention the time I spent stressing out studying, and re-writing and emailing etc etc. and there's no possible way I am going through it again. I will take my no-funding at SAIS and try to obtain a paid internship/job and then be happy taking my loan forgiveness from the government. Not that I'm not being financially cautious, but jobs are scarce with JUST a Political Science degree. And I'm not going to get a job out of my field just for the sake of money, because that's not even going to help a future application. For some people money matters the most but for me that's not the case. I'm taking my loans and I will pay them off happily.  

 

The job market is very difficult, especially with just a bachelor's in something like Poli Sci. However, as someone currently living and working in the DC area, I can tell you that the job market out here is extremely competitive and difficult to navigate; even with a master's degree. No matter where you're from, coming to the DC job market is the equivalent of entering the Thunderdome so just be prepared! Be smart, and utilize every tool available to you at Johns Hopkins. Also, I've said this numerous times on this forum and I'll continue to say it because in my opinion it's the single most important thing that people interested in forging a career inside the beltway should know - LEARN TO NETWORK.  Networking is an art, and a skill that most people (particularly fresh out of college/early 20 somethings) don't seem to grasp. Take time to master this art and it will repay you ten fold in terms of career opportunities/development.

[Sjn092]

Yeah, it's easy to get discouraged because they're are so many people here that have worked or been in the military and are able to amass considerable funding. For those of us straight outta undergrad, it's not as easy as "just work for a bit." The job market doesn't really work that way anymore. I'm with ya in that I don't wanna go through this process again, it was bad enough one time. And I don't see myself doing anything remarkable enough in the next year or two with just a Poly Sci BA that'll get my funding way up. I'd rather just head into my Master's now while I'm motivated and young enough (23) that I can make things work with relatively no strings attached.

People might criticize this mindset here, but I personally would like to second this.

 

I didn't go to a super well connected college, I don't have tons of real connections with people working in the field I want to work in. There are internships I can find, and I might get lucky and land a relevant job, I guess. I could slip back into campaign work,  I suppose. But I have wanted to go for this degree for years, this isn't something I randomly decided on. Honestly, I could probably get better offers years down the line, but life is to short, and being able to simply "go get some relevant experience" is not a guarantee at all. I'm rolling the dice, the time feels right. 

 

edit: okay, that said, If I had zero funding offers at all, Id be a little more on the fence. As myself and others keep saying, every situation is unique. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sjn092

[pavlik]

This is all a personal decision, and only you will know what's best for you in the end. But there are a few things I want to point out (that others have raised as well).

 

1) Assuming that you'll get a job with the federal government for the loan forgiveness program is a dicey proposition at best. Unless you're a veteran or have special preference for noncompetitive eligibility such as being a former Peace Corps Volunteer, it can be very difficult to land a job through the public application process, especially if you don't have 2 years of work experience. A large number of jobs on USAJobs.gov are there as a legal formality; an agency often knows who they'll hire before the job is even posted, but they legally have to post it anyway. Pro tip: anything with oddly specific skills/experience listed is probably one of these, i.e. "Minimum 5 years of experience with research into Belarussian bilateral trade agreement policy." So, don't assume that getting a federal job will be easy as pie with a master's.

 

2) Similarly, assuming that the job market will be much easier to navigate once you have a master's is a very optimistic hope, to say the least. Real-world experience is worth much more to most employers than more academia. And it's a false dichotomy to assume you have to jump into the job market and settle for whatever you find if you don't stay in school. There are loads of opportunities out there--Fulbright, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Teach for America (and the various state/city spinoffs), teaching English in Korea, etc.--that will do nothing but bolster your resume, and many will give you the opportunity to save.

 

3) In D.C., master's degrees are like college degrees in other cities. They don't really distinguish you that much. My girlfriend formerly worked for a prestigious foreign policy think tank here. They would get literally hundreds of applications for entry-level positions in the communications department (not even one of the policy programs) paying $35,000/year from master's candidates, people with experience in the field or in other settings, etc. I interviewed for a part-time paid internship/research assistant position last fall, but took myself out of the process after I accepted another offer. The person who took that part-time, $13/hour job has a master's from one of the popular schools on this forum, according to LinkedIn. I'm not trying to scare anyone (OK, maybe a little), but just know that a master's degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to your dream job.

 

That being said--no one knows you like you. If you know you won't ever be better prepared than now, then go for it. But think of applications to schools like a job offer. What do you have to bring to the program? Obviously, the main things they're looking for are intelligence, academic inclination, and work ethic (mostly assessed on GPA and GRE), but having demonstrated work experience in this or a related field makes you a more attractive candidate for both admission and funding.

[Atlas445]

This is all a personal decision, and only you will know what's best for you in the end. But there are a few things I want to point out (that others have raised as well).

 

1) Assuming that you'll get a job with the federal government for the loan forgiveness program is a dicey proposition at best. Unless you're a veteran or have special preference for noncompetitive eligibility such as being a former Peace Corps Volunteer, it can be very difficult to land a job through the public application process, especially if you don't have 2 years of work experience. A large number of jobs on USAJobs.gov are there as a legal formality; an agency often knows who they'll hire before the job is even posted, but they legally have to post it anyway. Pro tip: anything with oddly specific skills/experience listed is probably one of these, i.e. "Minimum 5 years of experience with research into Belarussian bilateral trade agreement policy." So, don't assume that getting a federal job will be easy as pie with a master's.

 

2) Similarly, assuming that the job market will be much easier to navigate once you have a master's is a very optimistic hope, to say the least. Real-world experience is worth much more to most employers than more academia. And it's a false dichotomy to assume you have to jump into the job market and settle for whatever you find if you don't stay in school. There are loads of opportunities out there--Fulbright, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Teach for America (and the various state/city spinoffs), teaching English in Korea, etc.--that will do nothing but bolster your resume, and many will give you the opportunity to save.

 

3) In D.C., master's degrees are like college degrees in other cities. They don't really distinguish you that much. My girlfriend formerly worked for a prestigious foreign policy think tank here. They would get literally hundreds of applications for entry-level positions in the communications department (not even one of the policy programs) paying $35,000/year from master's candidates, people with experience in the field or in other settings, etc. I interviewed for a part-time paid internship/research assistant position last fall, but took myself out of the process after I accepted another offer. The person who took that part-time, $13/hour job has a master's from one of the popular schools on this forum, according to LinkedIn. I'm not trying to scare anyone (OK, maybe a little), but just know that a master's degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to your dream job.

 

That being said--no one knows you like you. If you know you won't ever be better prepared than now, then go for it. But think of applications to schools like a job offer. What do you have to bring to the program? Obviously, the main things they're looking for are intelligence, academic inclination, and work ethic (mostly assessed on GPA and GRE), but having demonstrated work experience in this or a related field makes you a more attractive candidate for both admission and funding.

 

All true!  Though I will say that without a master's you will inevitably hit a glass ceiling in the federal job world of IR (if you're lucky enough to get in without one ),

[Sjn092]

Look. I'm not trying to say that a masters degree is a panacea at all. I just have this fear that there are people that are pretty sure of themselves, want to work in public service, and are willing to accept the debt burden who come to this forum and see nothing but talk of how it's not worth it unless you get absurdly good funding offers. I really appreciate there are people on here willing to dish out the hard truths, but that doesn't mean that everyone wanting to jump into a masters program relatively early is wrong, either. 

 

For my part, I'm not doing this so I can make a ton of money or buy a house earlier or support a family. I understand that it will be tough, and no job will come easy. But my priority at this point in my life is to do the type work that is interesting to me, as early as I can, and do whatever I can to put myself in a position to do that. Not only do I think a public affairs degree will help me from a professional standpoint, but to some people, there is a large intrinsic value in learning, in deepening your knowledge of the things that you find interesting. 

 

Different for everyone. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sjn092

[it's an IR world]

All true!  Though I will say that without a master's you will inevitably hit a glass ceiling in the federal job world of IR (if you're lucky enough to get in without one ),

 

This. This is exactly why I'm going back to school. I've been working at policy/human rights/international relations NGOs for nearly seven years now, but I've hit that cap. I'm eager to learn and get back into the foreign policy field with a grad degree -- and hopefully will make an even bigger, more educated splash with that Masters.

Edited March 25, 2015 by it's an IR world

[DCB]

Also, I think one thing that gets neglected on this forum is personality and the ability to network. Outside of test scores, work experience, GPA, etc. And that's something that, if you're confident in, can render a lot of the debate about whether you can make it in DC or NYC null and void. If you're confident that you can come in and make connections quickly then that's a giant part of the cost-benefit analysis of grad school that, objectively, people on this forum can't judge.

[crisisdiplomacy]

There will never be a time that is 100% right, the job market will always be difficult and competitive and there will be challenges and burdens that you're gonna have to overcome. Everyone is right here but you, yourself know what you're capable of. Not everyone's life moves in a linear way. Ultimately you know what's best for you at this time in your life. Take a leap of faith, or don't. But whatever you do work hard at it. It is rare that circumstances are you fully ideal but that's life. Some will take the debt, some wont. Good luck to all.

[pavlik]

Look. I'm not trying to say that a masters degree is a panacea at all. I just have this fear that there are people that are pretty sure of themselves, want to work in public service, and are willing to accept the debt burden who come to this forum and see nothing but talk of how it's not worth it unless you get absurdly good funding offers. I really appreciate there are people on here willing to dish out the hard truths, but that doesn't mean that everyone wanting to jump into a masters program relatively early is wrong, either. 

 

For my part, I'm not doing this so I can make a ton of money or buy a house earlier or support a family. I understand that it will be tough, and no job will come easy. But my priority at this point in my life is to do the type work that is interesting to me, as early as I can, and do whatever I can to put myself in a position to do that. Not only do I think a public affairs degree will help me from a professional standpoint, but to some people, there is a large intrinsic value in learning, in deepening your knowledge of the things that you find interesting. 

 

Different for everyone. 

 

This is exactly the correct attitude about this. As long as you're prepared for the sacrifices and work it entails, you're in good shape. The key is, I think, being able to make the sacrifices to get the job/career you want, and that you know you want this.

[NotLostWanderer]

I'm going to try to get out debt free. I am planning on turning down a full ride + stipend at a low-ranked institution (as a research assistant) to attend GWU with a nice scholarship. Hopefully I can get a part-time job in my field and not eat into my savings too much. The difference in cost is negligible to me, especially considering the opportunity cost of being far from DC!

[StarkResilient89]

I'm going to try to get out debt free. I am planning on turning down a full ride + stipend at a low-ranked institution (as a research assistant) to attend GWU with a nice scholarship. Hopefully I can get a part-time job in my field and not eat into my savings too much. The difference in cost is negligible to me, especially considering the opportunity cost of being far from DC!

 

 

This is exactly the correct attitude about this. As long as you're prepared for the sacrifices and work it entails, you're in good shape. The key is, I think, being able to make the sacrifices to get the job/career you want, and that you know you want this.

 

 

There will never be a time that is 100% right, the job market will always be difficult and competitive and there will be challenges and burdens that you're gonna have to overcome. Everyone is right here but you, yourself know what you're capable of. Not everyone's life moves in a linear way. Ultimately you know what's best for you at this time in your life. Take a leap of faith, or don't. But whatever you do work hard at it. It is rare that circumstances are you fully ideal but that's life. Some will take the debt, some wont. Good luck to all.

I feel like virtually every poster in this thread has made salient points, but this still doesn't make my forthcoming decision any easier.

 

In my situation, I've narrowed it down to three schools:

 

SUNY Albany (MPA, no aid so far but it's the least expensive: $30k AT MOST for two years combined; realistically it's more like $26k)

Carnegie Mellon (MSPPM, $32k between scholarshiop and work-study)

Duke University (MPP, $25k; will see if I can barter for more funding)

 

It's a hard decision and I feel like there's no easy answer. On the one hand, SUNY Albany is not only significantly cheaper than the other choices, but it also has a solid reputation in both New York state (where I'm from) and the U.S. News rankings. Given these facts, and based on conversations I've had with people in the NYC and NY state civil services, my chances of landing a decent-paying job after graduation are solid (well, at least jobs within my home state). 

 

On the other hand, with either Duke or Carnegie Mellon, you're talking about not only a (ostensibly) higher-level education, but more extensive career networking on a national level. Although there are certainly other factors that go into these calculations, it's not a stretch to say that finding a higher-paying job after graduation becomes a bit easier with that type of pedigree. 

 

 Ultimately, I realize that people who go for these degrees definitely don't do so for the money, so it probably will take a long time indeed to pay off these debts. That explains the appeal of SUNY Albany; I don't want to spend decades paying off at least ~$80k in loans. That said, it may well be the case with the other two schools that their reputations and networks make it easier to find a higher-paying job that offsets the loans, but even then it's a risky gamble at best. What are your opinions on this?

 

P.S. Re: my background, I'm interested in working on environmental policy issues, preferably performing policy analysis work for regulatory agencies like the EPA, Department of Energy, independent energy contractors, etc.

 

P.S.S. Yes, I know this post was at least somewhat vague in the details, but this really reflects my current state at the moment on the issue. Which is why I'd really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks! 

[method]

If you're interested in working at the EPA or Department of Energy someday, PMF would be one of your easiest routes.  There's a lot of public data on the semi-finalist and finalists in the process.

 

Here's this year's data across the three schools you mentioned:

SUNY Albany, 11 semi-finalists, 3 finalists

Duke Sanford, 1 semi-finalist, 1 finalist

CMU Heinz, 1 semi-finalist, 0 finalists

 

Now, of course, you can apply to PMF from any of the schools and get through.  But I imagine that SUNY Albany may have a culture and career services staff that helps with the PMF process.  For example, at Ford (where I am), we had 13 semi-finalists and 10 finalists, thanks in large part to our career services staff really knowing the process and holding workshops to help our semi-finalists make it through the final stage.

 

There's a lot more than PMF out there and even being a PMF finalist is not a guarantee of a federal government placement, but you can still use the program as one crude proxy for career prospects.  SUNY Albany already seems to hold an advantage and it's cheaper.  

Edited March 31, 2015 by method

[MaxwellAlum]

I feel like virtually every poster in this thread has made salient points, but this still doesn't make my forthcoming decision any easier.

 

In my situation, I've narrowed it down to three schools:

 

SUNY Albany (MPA, no aid so far but it's the least expensive: $30k AT MOST for two years combined; realistically it's more like $26k)

Carnegie Mellon (MSPPM, $32k between scholarshiop and work-study)

Duke University (MPP, $25k; will see if I can barter for more funding)

 

It's a hard decision and I feel like there's no easy answer. On the one hand, SUNY Albany is not only significantly cheaper than the other choices, but it also has a solid reputation in both New York state (where I'm from) and the U.S. News rankings. Given these facts, and based on conversations I've had with people in the NYC and NY state civil services, my chances of landing a decent-paying job after graduation are solid (well, at least jobs within my home state). 

 

On the other hand, with either Duke or Carnegie Mellon, you're talking about not only a (ostensibly) higher-level education, but more extensive career networking on a national level. Although there are certainly other factors that go into these calculations, it's not a stretch to say that finding a higher-paying job after graduation becomes a bit easier with that type of pedigree. 

 

 Ultimately, I realize that people who go for these degrees definitely don't do so for the money, so it probably will take a long time indeed to pay off these debts. That explains the appeal of SUNY Albany; I don't want to spend decades paying off at least ~$80k in loans. That said, it may well be the case with the other two schools that their reputations and networks make it easier to find a higher-paying job that offsets the loans, but even then it's a risky gamble at best. What are your opinions on this?

 

P.S. Re: my background, I'm interested in working on environmental policy issues, preferably performing policy analysis work for regulatory agencies like the EPA, Department of Energy, independent energy contractors, etc.

 

P.S.S. Yes, I know this post was at least somewhat vague in the details, but this really reflects my current state at the moment on the issue. Which is why I'd really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks! 

$80k in loans will accrue over $400 in interest every month.  On a ten year repayment plan you would need to pay $900 a month or over $10k a year in payments, which is simply not practical on a public sector salary (Federal GS-9 jobs in DC start at around $53k these days) if you have other financial goals like saving for retirement or buying a home.  What seems like a lot of money in your 20s is not that much when you get tired of living with roommates and realize that you need to start saving a substantial chunk of your salary in a retirement fund.

 

The way to get around this is income-based repayment and public service loan forgiveness, if you are willing to commit to working in the public sector for 10 years (which is genuinely limiting) and live with the uncertainty of whether forgiveness will still be honored 10 years from now.  This plan can get particularly stressful if your income-based payments don't cover the interest that accrues (or at least most of it).

 

Having Duke or Heinz on your resume may give you a leg up for certain job opportunities, but a school's prestige does not matter nearly as much for an MPP as it does for a law degree.  Having less debt will definitely give you tangible career and financial flexibility.

 

If you have strong reasons to believe Duke or Heinz will offer significant and tangible career advantages, then it is definitely possible to make it work.  However, in the absence of that, take the lower debt load at the respected state school.

[crisisdiplomacy]

I feel like virtually every poster in this thread has made salient points, but this still doesn't make my forthcoming decision any easier.

 

In my situation, I've narrowed it down to three schools:

 

SUNY Albany (MPA, no aid so far but it's the least expensive: $30k AT MOST for two years combined; realistically it's more like $26k)

Carnegie Mellon (MSPPM, $32k between scholarshiop and work-study)

Duke University (MPP, $25k; will see if I can barter for more funding)

 

It's a hard decision and I feel like there's no easy answer. On the one hand, SUNY Albany is not only significantly cheaper than the other choices, but it also has a solid reputation in both New York state (where I'm from) and the U.S. News rankings. Given these facts, and based on conversations I've had with people in the NYC and NY state civil services, my chances of landing a decent-paying job after graduation are solid (well, at least jobs within my home state). 

 

On the other hand, with either Duke or Carnegie Mellon, you're talking about not only a (ostensibly) higher-level education, but more extensive career networking on a national level. Although there are certainly other factors that go into these calculations, it's not a stretch to say that finding a higher-paying job after graduation becomes a bit easier with that type of pedigree. 

 

 Ultimately, I realize that people who go for these degrees definitely don't do so for the money, so it probably will take a long time indeed to pay off these debts. That explains the appeal of SUNY Albany; I don't want to spend decades paying off at least ~$80k in loans. That said, it may well be the case with the other two schools that their reputations and networks make it easier to find a higher-paying job that offsets the loans, but even then it's a risky gamble at best. What are your opinions on this?

 

P.S. Re: my background, I'm interested in working on environmental policy issues, preferably performing policy analysis work for regulatory agencies like the EPA, Department of Energy, independent energy contractors, etc.

 

P.S.S. Yes, I know this post was at least somewhat vague in the details, but this really reflects my current state at the moment on the issue. Which is why I'd really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks! 

 

 

With the funding that you received from CMU and Duke, what would the total cost of attending be? 

[chocolatecheesecake]

DEBT: I guess I'm confused about where the $80K figure comes from here. No matter what school you attend, that would be a hefty amount of debt you're courting, but is that from the cost for the school once you subtract the aid? Or is that the cost of your living expenses added in? Do you have savings that you can live off of in the meantime? I'd be thinking about that last part too and how living expenses can differ. Durham and Albany are probably somewhat cheaper than Pittsburgh, though not by much. 

 

I hope it will be helpful for some current students to share their situation and thinking. I'm almost done with my first year at Duke, and I came in with a very similar funding package to yours ($26K per year plus a $4K assistantship). My boyfriend and I have been living off our savings, and I was able to pay about $10K up front and only take out $5K in Perkins loans this year. Next year is going to be a different story, and I will either have to have a long discussion with my parents about borrowing their money or taking out another $10K in Stafford Loans and $5K in Perkins. In terms of living expenses, we are fortunate to have some miscellaneous income (I do photography and took on a fall internship, and he is a freelance programmer) to help us eke by on living expenses. We pay $850 a month for our two-bedroom apartment and spend about $100 on all utilities. We don't go out to happy hours, and I make food to bring to school pretty much every single day. We eat out at most once a week for less than $20, and have really cut back on buying beer/wine/liquor. I think I'll have $20-25K of debt when I leave, which runs pretty close to the average MPP student loan burden here (a number I have on good authority), and I'm confident that I'll be able to pay it off within 4-5 years of graduation, if it takes that long. Even if I only get a job that pays $30-40K a year, I think I could tuck away enough, because I did it once already!

 

PRESTIGE: One way to think about a prestigious name is what kind of alumni network they offer. Both of my full-time jobs after college were the result of conversations with alumni from my undergrad alma mater. I tapped into the MPP alumni network extensively for this summer's internship search and ended up interviewing at nearly every single organization. I ended up with four offers, two of which are from international think tanks and UN agencies. When you attend a large school which has this sort of international reach, you can use that in incredible ways, but it also totally depends on your own hard work. I don't know what kind of a network SUNY Albany has or where it is strongest, but I would look at lists of employers or internship offers and where alumni have landed after graduation; assess schools for their actual record, not what you think "prestige" means.  

In talking about all the help I've gotten from the alumni network, I've almost forgotten to actually mention the people that I'm at school with. My own cohort is fantastic, and some of my best friends are going to be working in DC for prestigious agencies/consulting firms. Your peers are your current and future network, and they matter a lot! Think about who you want to be with and who you're going to meet, and where you are more likely to find them. 

[StarkResilient89]

 

$80k in loans will accrue over $400 in interest every month.  On a ten year repayment plan you would need to pay $900 a month or over $10k a year in payments, which is simply not practical on a public sector salary (Federal GS-9 jobs in DC start at around $53k these days) if you have other financial goals like saving for retirement or buying a home.  What seems like a lot of money in your 20s is not that much when you get tired of living with roommates and realize that you need to start saving a substantial chunk of your salary in a retirement fund.

 

The way to get around this is income-based repayment and public service loan forgiveness, if you are willing to commit to working in the public sector for 10 years (which is genuinely limiting) and live with the uncertainty of whether forgiveness will still be honored 10 years from now.  This plan can get particularly stressful if your income-based payments don't cover the interest that accrues (or at least most of it).

 

Having Duke or Heinz on your resume may give you a leg up for certain job opportunities, but a school's prestige does not matter nearly as much for an MPP as it does for a law degree.  Having less debt will definitely give you tangible career and financial flexibility.

 

If you have strong reasons to believe Duke or Heinz will offer significant and tangible career advantages, then it is definitely possible to make it work.  However, in the absence of that, take the lower debt load at the respected state school.

 

 That's definitely sound advice. That said, I'd be more than willing to go on the IBR and public service loan forgiveness programs you mentioned. I'm a former federal employee, so working in that type of environment would be the optimal outcome. Also, I'm willing to work in the private sector for consulting firms and whatnot, so I'm flexible in that regard. 

 

With the funding that you received from CMU and Duke, what would the total cost of attending be? 

With CMU, it's $68,928; with Duke, it's $77,474. I guess I was being a bit broad when I mentioned $80,000 earlier. Still, it never hurts to bring up the worst case scenario as a precaution. 

 

In both of these cases, I'm perfectly willing live more frugally and spend as little on living expenses as possible (which is where most of the variable costs factor in). So optimistically, the figures I provided for loans could end up being even lower in the end. We'll see. 

 

DEBT: I guess I'm confused about where the $80K figure comes from here. No matter what school you attend, that would be a hefty amount of debt you're courting, but is that from the cost for the school once you subtract the aid? Or is that the cost of your living expenses added in? Do you have savings that you can live off of in the meantime? I'd be thinking about that last part too and how living expenses can differ. Durham and Albany are probably somewhat cheaper than Pittsburgh, though not by much. 

 

I hope it will be helpful for some current students to share their situation and thinking. I'm almost done with my first year at Duke, and I came in with a very similar funding package to yours ($26K per year plus a $4K assistantship). My boyfriend and I have been living off our savings, and I was able to pay about $10K up front and only take out $5K in Perkins loans this year. Next year is going to be a different story, and I will either have to have a long discussion with my parents about borrowing their money or taking out another $10K in Stafford Loans and $5K in Perkins. In terms of living expenses, we are fortunate to have some miscellaneous income (I do photography and took on a fall internship, and he is a freelance programmer) to help us eke by on living expenses. We pay $850 a month for our two-bedroom apartment and spend about $100 on all utilities. We don't go out to happy hours, and I make food to bring to school pretty much every single day. We eat out at most once a week for less than $20, and have really cut back on buying beer/wine/liquor. I think I'll have $20-25K of debt when I leave, which runs pretty close to the average MPP student loan burden here (a number I have on good authority), and I'm confident that I'll be able to pay it off within 4-5 years of graduation, if it takes that long. Even if I only get a job that pays $30-40K a year, I think I could tuck away enough, because I did it once already!

 

PRESTIGE: One way to think about a prestigious name is what kind of alumni network they offer. Both of my full-time jobs after college were the result of conversations with alumni from my undergrad alma mater. I tapped into the MPP alumni network extensively for this summer's internship search and ended up interviewing at nearly every single organization. I ended up with four offers, two of which are from international think tanks and UN agencies. When you attend a large school which has this sort of international reach, you can use that in incredible ways, but it also totally depends on your own hard work. I don't know what kind of a network SUNY Albany has or where it is strongest, but I would look at lists of employers or internship offers and where alumni have landed after graduation; assess schools for their actual record, not what you think "prestige" means.  

In talking about all the help I've gotten from the alumni network, I've almost forgotten to actually mention the people that I'm at school with. My own cohort is fantastic, and some of my best friends are going to be working in DC for prestigious agencies/consulting firms. Your peers are your current and future network, and they matter a lot! Think about who you want to be with and who you're going to meet, and where you are more likely to find them. 

The $80k figure was really a worst-case scenario, rough estimate that I came up with. That figure, as well as the revised ones provided above, was indeed based on the loans I'd owe after you factor in financial aid. Personally, I have around $22k in savings now, but since I'm planning to pay off my undergraduate loans before I start grad school, it's realistically going to be around $3k-4k. And after visiting Duke this past weekend, I pretty much agree with you re: living expenses in Durham; it does seem like the type of city where the cost of living isn't high at all. 

 

And re: Duke's career services and networking, I also can't disagree with your argument. I'm sure CMU's career network has a similar reputation. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to figure out is whether or not my going to either one of these schools would drastically (emphasis and bolding are mine) increase my chances of getting a decent-paying job after graduation than compared to going to SUNY Albany, since I know that they also place alumni in prestigious agencies/firms/non-profits (but probably to a lesser degree). Moreover, it probably does not have as strong a national/international reputation as the others, even though it's decently-ranked within USN & WR; it's most well-known within NY State. Again, I'm not trying to disparage any school here, but the deciding factor would have to be whether my chances of getting a decent-paying job to offset loans after graduation increase considerably by going to certain schools. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by StarkResilient89