Can possessing an MA shorten the length of your PhD?

[Duns Eith]

It is my understanding that some schools (especially outside the US?), it can. But in general, no. Does it depend on where you get the MA? (E.g., if you got the MA at a terminal ma school with no PhD, VS say an MA at a school where you could go onto a PhD) Does the prestige of the school determine it either? (PGR top-30 vs unranked)

Does anyone have examples of schools that require less coursework if you come in with an MA?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Turretin

[1Q84]

It is more common than not to have schools accept transfer credits from an MA degree. There is always a maximum number of credits that can be transferred and most US schools will accept credits from other US schools (though not all). It certainly would become trickier transferring international credits to a US institution, making me think it's not altogether encouraged by departments.

ETA:

I'm pretty sure 1Q84 is completely wrong about this with regards to philosophy programs. Perhaps in other disciplines they allow transfer credits, but all of the PhD programs I looked at want you to do the full coursework in their department.

Yes, apologies, should have noted I'm speaking from English Ph.D. standpoint only! (Thought that was a rather general standard, but I guess not!)

Edited March 30, 2015 by 1Q84

[sidebysondheim]

I'm pretty sure 1Q84 is completely wrong about this with regards to philosophy programs. Perhaps in other disciplines they allow transfer credits, but all of the PhD programs I looked at want you to do the full coursework in their department.

[Marst]

(especially outside the US?)

For many European PhD programs, a masters is a prerequisite. Those programs usually have no or very little coursework, allowing you to progress to research much quicker.

[perpetuavix]

I'm pretty sure 1Q84 is completely wrong about this with regards to philosophy programs. Perhaps in other disciplines they allow transfer credits, but all of the PhD programs I looked at want you to do the full coursework in their department.

I don't think it's that uncommon to transfer a small number of classes from a previous Masters, although it is, as 1Q84 said, usually a capped number of credits. CUNY and Yale allow some transfer credits, once some coursework has been completed; see here and here. UCLA specifically doesn't allow it (here) and Carnegie Mellon didn't obviously say either way. Probably not a representative sample, but it's not so uncommon.

 

Anecdotally, students who get terminal Masters and students who leave a PhD program are treated roughly the same. I think this is partially because most students who leave PhD programs leave after their first, second or possibly third year. If you leave your PhD program substantially into your dissertation, it seems more likely you'll leave the discipline than end up in another department, but I would imagine that one wouldn't be required to take more coursework at that point. 

 

Schools outside the US work on a different model of graduate programs. Elsewhere in the world, you get a Masters' first, where you take all or most of your coursework, then go to a PhD program, where you immediately start with the dissertation. So, PhD programs elsewhere are much shorter, but only because the first two years are formally relocated in the Masters coursework. 

[jjb919]

I'm just going to ditto what everyone else has been saying here. I can only say with confidence regarding the schools I have looked into applying to (which are mostly SPEP schools, I'm not sure if it's more common to accept transfer credits at SPEP rather than mainstream analytic schools), but the majority of them do accept transfer credits, enough to knock off about a year's worth of course requirements. Depending on how long you take on your dissertation, it may or may not shorten the time to degree. I know that U. Oregon, Fordham, Georgetown, U. Toronto, Boston College, and Penn State all accept transfer credits. Some (e.g. Fordham and Toronto) seem to have a different, shortened, track for those entering with a MA, while others just offer the opportunity to transfer a certain number of credits fulfilling a limited number of distribution requirements.

[Duns Eith]

[...]Perhaps in other disciplines they allow transfer credits, but all of the PhD programs I looked at want you to do the full coursework in their department.

 I was pretty sure that many programs wanted all coursework done at that institution. Do you think that an MA en route to PhD would be treated differently than, say, a ranked terminal MA (e.g. Ohio university, Western Michigan, Virginia Tech)?

 

For many European PhD programs, a masters is a prerequisite. Those programs usually have no or very little coursework, allowing you to progress to research much quicker.

 Quite true. I was not thinking about these PhD programs in particular. Thanks for clarifying!

 

I don't think it's that uncommon to transfer a small number of classes from a previous Masters, although it is, as 1Q84 said, usually a capped number of credits. CUNY and Yale allow some transfer credits, once some coursework has been completed; see here and here. UCLA specifically doesn't allow it (here) and Carnegie Mellon didn't obviously say either way. Probably not a representative sample, but it's not so uncommon.

 

Anecdotally, students who get terminal Masters and students who leave a PhD program are treated roughly the same. I think this is partially because most students who leave PhD programs leave after their first, second or possibly third year. If you leave your PhD program substantially into your dissertation, it seems more likely you'll leave the discipline than end up in another department, but I would imagine that one wouldn't be required to take more coursework at that point. 

 

Schools outside the US work on a different model of graduate programs. Elsewhere in the world, you get a Masters' first, where you take all or most of your coursework, then go to a PhD program, where you immediately start with the dissertation. So, PhD programs elsewhere are much shorter, but only because the first two years are formally relocated in the Masters coursework.

  If your anecdote is representative in any way, then I would think this could knock out a year or two out of a PhD. I am surprised I don't see word one way or another more clearly on sites I've checked into thus far.

 

I'm just going to ditto what everyone else has been saying here. I can only say with confidence regarding the schools I have looked into applying to (which are mostly SPEP schools, I'm not sure if it's more common to accept transfer credits at SPEP rather than mainstream analytic schools), but the majority of them do accept transfer credits, enough to knock off about a year's worth of course requirements. Depending on how long you take on your dissertation, it may or may not shorten the time to degree. I know that U. Oregon, Fordham, Georgetown, U. Toronto, Boston College, and Penn State all accept transfer credits. Some (e.g. Fordham and Toronto) seem to have a different, shortened, track for those entering with a MA, while others just offer the opportunity to transfer a certain number of credits fulfilling a limited number of distribution requirements.

The only school that I have seen say that the PhD is shorter with an MA was Toronto, as you said above.

 

 

--

The reason I am asking all this is that I am likely going into a ranked terminal MA, and I am not intending to transfer prior to completing the degree. While I know that having an MA might improve my chances at getting into a funded PhD, I am trying to figure out whether I would be re-taking many of the same courses if I got accepted, or whether it would suggest that the PhD could more easily fund me because they aren't paying for 5 years, given that a year (or two) of coursework has been completed.

[jjb919]

 The only school that I have seen say that the PhD is shorter with an MA was Toronto, as you said above.

 

--

The reason I am asking all this is that I am likely going into a ranked terminal MA, and I am not intending to transfer prior to completing the degree. While I know that having an MA might improve my chances at getting into a funded PhD, I am trying to figure out whether I would be re-taking many of the same courses if I got accepted, or whether it would suggest that the PhD could more easily fund me because they aren't paying for 5 years, given that a year (or two) of coursework has been completed.

All of the schools I have named will allow you to transfer credits and shorten the time to degree. You can find the pertinent information on their websites: U. Oregon, Fordham, Georgetown, Boston College, Penn State (listed on page 30 of the Policies and Procedures PDF, under "Advanced Standing").

[philstudent1991]

Yes, either directly in that classes transfer, or indirectly in that you are more focused and on top of things than people coming straight out of undergrad. 

[Symm3try]

My experience has been that, at most, you can transfer 30 credit hours from an MA program. I've seen others that cap transfer credits at 24. However, it depends on the school. I have noticed that some higher ranked programs want all the coursework to be done at their institution and don't allow any transfer credits. My advice would be to consult the handbook for each individual school.

I will add that, during one of my visits, I was told that whether or not MA coursework would count would be decided on a case-by-case basis. For example, whether my more advanced logic courses would count would be contingent on me sitting down with a professor and convincing him or her that I have a proper grasp of what should have been learned in said courses.

[Duns Eith]

Thanks again for all your help. I am finding more programs that appear to accept these credits, per jjb919's recommendation to check the handbooks for notes on students with Advanced Standing or Advanced Degrees.

 

FYI

UMich -- allows some to transfer, but very few.

OSU -- appears none can transfer? Need to ask DGS

Purdue -- "up to 30 credit hours" -- Holy moly!

Both Toronto and UWO have shorter PhD tracks if you come in with an MA