POI vs Ranking

[FSMITH010]

To what extent should ranking be considered over fit, or POI quality?

 

I am looking to study the philosophy of education so I am looking for schools with good education departments (where I will get my degree from) and philosophy departments (where I can take classes from).

 

If a well-known POI with cross-appointments (education and philosophy) teaches in an unranked education department, should I consider this as an option? The school is top 30 us news and ranked on pgr.

[ianfaircloud]

I don't know too much about philosophy of education. I do know that it's rare to hear someone in a philosophy department speak of "philosophy of education." I recommend that you find someone from a good education department who calls herself a philosopher of education. Find out whether she thinks there are philosophy courses or philosophers who are doing what she thinks of as "philosophy of education." I think you have the right idea heading to an education department rather than a philosophy department. I would think that education departments devote a lot of time to discussing the philosophy of education. I would think that would be pretty crucial at any education department.

 

To be clear, there are some rare people with doctoral degrees in philosophy who call themselves philosophers of education. Whether they're doing what you think of as "philosophy of education" is another matter to be investigated. The problem is that the phrase can mean a lot of things, and only some of those things would have a lot of overlap with what "academic philosophers" do otherwise. Good luck to you!

[sidebysondheim]

I'm at a university with a graduate education program that does everything it can to avoid philosophy of education. They hold certain ideological commitments that they do not believe should be questioned (they are somewhat explicit about this) and thus discourage students from taking any of the philosophy of education classes the philosophy department offers. There are either two or three faculty here who work in philosophy of education and have given me the impression that this is not an isolated case. I'd make sure to research which education program you're looking at to see if they hold this type of bias. 

[Gnothi_Seauton]

A few people in philosophy departments who come to mind and work on philosophy of education, at least as a secondary interest.  

 

1.  Harry Brighouse at UW-Madison.  He actually just started a center there that focuses on issues in philosophy of education.  

2.  Jennifer Morton at CUNY.  

3.  Rob Reich and Debra Satz at Stanford.  

4.  Harvey Siegel at Miami.

5.  Karen Detlefsen and Amy Gutmann at UPenn.  Gutmann is the president of the university, though, so I doubt she does much work with students anymore.

6.  Derrick Darby (and to some extent Elizabeth Anderson) at Michigan.

 

I don't know much about education departments, but I would guess that all but CUNY and Miami would be pretty solid (and they might also be fine).  If you are planning to get your degree in an education department and, presumably, try to get a job in an education department, then I think your pedigree probably matters less than it would in philosophy.  If you were to decide to get a degree in philosophy, then you'd probably be able to apply for jobs in both education schools and in philosophy departments, but your pedigree would matter a lot more.  But you'd be almost certain not to land a job in a philosophy department with only a degree in education, even if you focused on philosophy of education and worked with people in a philosophy department.  Just another thing to consider.  

[FSMITH010]

I'm at a university with a graduate education program that does everything it can to avoid philosophy of education. They hold certain ideological commitments that they do not believe should be questioned

It is fair to say this is the general rule. There are about 6 philosophy of ed. programs, and from talking to professors the field is shrinking.

 

In general I am looking for an education department appointment, but hope to be able to hold my weight in applicable areas of philosophy.

 

My main question was whether I should look towards a well-known/"good-fit" POI over department rank. I keep forgetting that I need to take classes and not solely write a thesis/research under my adviser.

[mjf1240]

Related question-

 

I'm waitlisted at Ohio State and at Notre Dame, so I'm trying to decide which I would pick (if a miracle happens and I get in to both.) Notre Dame ranks better on the PGR than OSU (ND is 17, I think, and OSU is 28.) However, OSU has far larger group of people doing metaethics (what I want to study.) Notre Dame is very sparse with ethics people. I'm not sure what to do in this situation... advice?

[Jumbo Juice]

I would look at their placement records closely.  Notre Dame's is enormously better than Ohio State's.   

[Monadology]

Can someone (in this thread of via PM) say more about these 'ideological commitments' that education programs tend to have? I'm curious, especially as someone with an interest in pedagogy and education, but unfamiliar with the current state of the field. 

[Euromaniac]

Can someone (in this thread of via PM) say more about these 'ideological commitments' that education programs tend to have? I'm curious, especially as someone with an interest in pedagogy and education, but unfamiliar with the current state of the field. 

I'd like to know too, if someone wouldn't mind messaging me as well!

[exaznable]

Can someone (in this thread of via PM) say more about these 'ideological commitments' that education programs tend to have? I'm curious, especially as someone with an interest in pedagogy and education, but unfamiliar with the current state of the field. 

 

 

I'd like to know too, if someone wouldn't mind messaging me as well!

 

I was a graduate student majoring in philosophy of education (in education). I am not sure if there are 'ideological commitments' in education programs, but my impression is that the field is shrinking. The reason is, i think, that graduate schools of education are becoming more and more a sort of professional school for raising education leaders (like law school). They are focusing more on subjects that can be applied directly to practice (such as administration, policy, counselling and etc.) than theory. There are many part-time graduate students who are working in relevant fields, and many of them don't even pursue PhD degree. So such subjects like philosophy of education which are hard to be applied to practice directly tend to be neglected.