I have very little guidance.

[DrFino]

I've applied to 6 MS programs (heard back from 2), and until now, I was just waiting for the letters to roll in. I just read about the April 15th deadline, and it worries me that I'm still waiting on 4 schools, all of which abide by this deadline. I'm assuming it mostly applies to PhD programs with funding, but I'm not sure.

 

I've also been second guessing myself based on things I've read around reddit, and I don't know if I'm on the right track anymore. Ultimately, I want to land anywhere between research and academia within a brain sciences field. I don't know if I'm right going into MS programs in order to obtain a PhD further down the line, but I know I wont be accepted into any reputable PhD programs without Master's work to make up for my lack of experience and publication. 

 

Basically, I want to be sure I wont kill myself with wasted years and loans, only to come out with very little to show for it. Right now, I'm not 100% convinced. Thanks for your time.

[jujubea]

What exactly are your questions?

[fuzzylogician]

^^ you didn't exactly ask any questions that we can answer. So until you specify more, my thoughts are the following: first, you need to contact the schools you haven't heard from yet and ask about the status of your application. Second, if your goal is a career in research or academia, sounds like you'll need a PhD. You say that you don't believe you'll be able to get into a PhD program without an MS, so therefore it sounds like applying for the MS needs to be your next step. What we can't help you with, based just on the details you gave, is whether your choice of MS programs could actually lead to good chances of getting into a strong PhD program that would allow you to achieve your long-term goals. To be quite honest, from your post it doesn't sounds like you are very convinced of this long-term goal, and that's something you should really figure out before you commit to a long academic career or to debt. We also can't help you decide how much financial expense is worth it to make your plans come true; that would depend on how much debt you are willing to take on (if any), how much you think you could make after you get your PhD, and whether you're willing to risk it in case you don't end up in the job you hope to eventually get.

[DrFino]

Thanks for the responses. I really appreciate your insight. I am fully committed toward reaching my goal, and I know that I have the capacity to achieve them with any volume of effort. At this point, I guess what I am questioning is the efficiency of my progress from now until I am working within my prospective field.

 

I have applied to neuroscience programs at UTexas at Dallas, U of Idaho, Tulane U, Stony Brook. Accepted into U of Hartford. Rejected from Penn State.

 

 

Some of the questions I have (assume solid performance during MS and PhD work):

 

I have an undergraduate degree (PSU) with relatively little experience or work within the field I am applying. With the goal of obtaining a PhD, am I right to assume MS work is required?

 

Relative to undergrad, how much weight will my MS work have on an application into a PhD program?

 

Should I be worried that an MS from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

Should I be worried that a PhD from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

 

Thank you all for your help, it means a lot.

 

 

[brown_eyed_girl]

Thanks for the responses. I really appreciate your insight. I am fully committed toward reaching my goal, and I know that I have the capacity to achieve them with any volume of effort. At this point, I guess what I am questioning is the efficiency of my progress from now until I am working within my prospective field.

 

I have applied to neuroscience programs at UTexas at Dallas, U of Idaho, Tulane U, Stony Brook. Accepted into U of Hartford. Rejected from Penn State.

 

 

Some of the questions I have (assume solid performance during MS and PhD work):

 

I have an undergraduate degree (PSU) with relatively little experience or work within the field I am applying. With the goal of obtaining a PhD, am I right to assume MS work is required?

 

Relative to undergrad, how much weight will my MS work have on an application into a PhD program?

 

Should I be worried that an MS from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

Should I be worried that a PhD from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

 

Thank you all for your help, it means a lot.

 

1. I don't know the rest of your record (GPA? Honors program? Internships?) but generally speaking, if you don't have a lot of experience in your field, yes, you are more likely to get into a masters program than a doctoral program. An MS is not required for PhD programs, but it's probably your best bet of building experience and proving yourself to PhD committees, unless you land a job in your field and build practical experience by working for a year or two after undergrad, which is another route a lot of people take. It's probably possible to get into a PhD without a lot of research experience in your field if all other things are aligned right - stellar grades, GREs, letters of rec, experience in related areas - but especially in the sciences research is key. 

 

2. It's my understanding that a lot of people make up for unimpressive undergrad careers by excelling in their masters programs. I think admissions committees usually give more weight to your most recent work, and will take into account improvement. It's not rare to see someone who went to mid-tier institutions for undergrad and MA work end up in top-tier doctoral programs for this reason. 

 

3. If your end goal is a PhD, it's my impression that the rank of your MA/MS institution matters much less than the rank of your doctoral program. If your end goal is a terminal masters, then the rank of the MS program may matter a bit more. In either case, go to the place where you think you will have the best combination of research experience, mentor support, possibilities for work/research experience in the surrounding area, and departmental funding. How much debt you are willing to take on is very personal, but you may want to look at projected starting salaries of people in your field and think about how long it will take you to pay off your loans with that salary. Should you worry about dead-ends? I personally don't think so, since there are really no guarantees in this job market; spending a few years in a grad program seems as good a use of your time as any, and more education does still correlate with higher pay in general. 

 

4. Rank matters in terms of job placement and the resources you'll have, but so does the reputation of your individual POI/research lab or group, etc. Debt-wise, most PhD programs are funded (at least for 5 years), and most will tell you never to consider an unfunded one. That said, it's still a serious investment of time, energy, and resources. Even going to a top 5 program doesn't promise that you'll get a job on the other side. So do it because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else, and by all means try for the best program for your needs. And be aware that rank is not everything... there are people from mid and low-tier institutions who will be successful, and people at Ivys who won't be.  

[Sword_Saint]

Thanks for the responses. I really appreciate your insight. I am fully committed toward reaching my goal, and I know that I have the capacity to achieve them with any volume of effort. At this point, I guess what I am questioning is the efficiency of my progress from now until I am working within my prospective field.

 

I have applied to neuroscience programs at UTexas at Dallas, U of Idaho, Tulane U, Stony Brook. Accepted into U of Hartford. Rejected from Penn State.

 

 

Some of the questions I have (assume solid performance during MS and PhD work):

 

I have an undergraduate degree (PSU) with relatively little experience or work within the field I am applying. With the goal of obtaining a PhD, am I right to assume MS work is required?

 

Relative to undergrad, how much weight will my MS work have on an application into a PhD program?

 

Should I be worried that an MS from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

Should I be worried that a PhD from outside of the top 10 (25?, 50?) schools will lead me to a dead end with lots of debt?

 

 

Thank you all for your help, it means a lot.

 

I feel less qualified to answer this as I'm a social science person, and it's my understanding that neurology can be anywhere from psychology to biology but I will give you my limited input.

 

1. Not necessarily- some PhD programs accept applicants who don't have MS degrees. Some of my faculty went straight from undergrads to PhD programs though their PhD programs took them about the same amount of time as if they had gotten MS degrees before going into a PhD program (4 yr undergrad + 5/6 yr PhD versus 4 yr undergrad +1/2 year MS + 3/4 yr PhD). For those faculty members, they typically scored highly on standardized testing, namely the GRE. They also had promising GPA's and were more focused in my understanding of what they wanted to do prior to entering grad school, hence why they went after their PhD immediately and subsequently successfully completed it. 

 

2. What Brown_Eyed_Girl said, most recent work is preferential to older work. I think master's work is preferential to undergrad work also on the basis of it substantively being more equatable to PhD work. An undergrad honors thesis may be 30 pages but a master's thesis could easily be 2-3 times that and cover more impressive material. Obviously this all depends on how you perform as a master's student and how you performed as an undergrad student. You indicated having a lack of experience and publication; by experience did you mean relevant research experience as an undergrad or work experience in a relevant field or both?

 

3. This is a point of contention for most people I have spoken with, and it understandably varies by discipline so I can only speak to mine. In crime science (Criminology), a high prestige school may open some doors for you early on as a prospective faculty member or researcher, but only in the beginning of your career. It's great that you were supposedly taught by so and so, but after a few years it's all on you to prove to the world, independent of your school, you are highly competent and proven capable.

 

4. Being in debt should never be a consideration for a PhD program [in my discipline and in my opinion]. I say this because if you are not funded for a PhD program you should not go. 30-40k a year for 3-4 years is not worth it, and if the program wants you to be there, they will pay you to be there. Reputation of your school, and reputation of your dissertation chair and/or senior adviser can make some difference, but again like the MS, in Criminology its a fleeting benefit that after a few years will make less and less difference. 

 

In my opinion, if you are serious about pursuing a PhD you should focus on the long term benefits associated with going to a particular school (with school prestige being a shorter term benefit). Example: in my case I decided to attend a school in Canada despite being a US citizen. One of the reasons I chose this is because it will allow me to establish connections and network with professionals in my field in Canada so when I'm pursuing careers I will be able to apply for jobs in the U.S. and have an easier time applying for jobs in Canada if I see some that are more worthwhile.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sword_Saint

[spectastic]

trust Allah. he will guide you to the promise land. 

[motrax]

Even after you graduate there's hope, you can always crawl back into your alma matter and try to get an internship/volunteership with a faculty member you know. MS program is just one option. I know one guy from my school that went overseas to get the xp in an industry position and teach English on the side. Get a little creative, you'll find something that works.