McGill vs MIT

[Sumit7054]

McGill is called the harvard of Canada. I strongly feel, it being a public institution, it is as well regarded as Harvard and is almost equal to harvard. What do you say? It is as good as  MIT in reputation? I feel it is as well regarded as MIT in reputation in academics as well as in Research.

[victorydance]

Nope. MIT kicks the shit out of McGill. 

[knp]

Assuming this is a serious question, "the Harvard of" is a figure of speech. You might say that Stanford is "the Harvard of" the West Coast or of California. This would be true; Stanford is as good a school as Harvard is. (Although most people don't in fact say that, because Stanford has enough of a reputation that it doesn't need to compare itself to anyone!) At the same time, when I applied to undergrad, I got some college mail soliciting my application from a school that, no kidding, described itself as "the Harvard of southeastern Georgia." (Or equivalent; the letter came a long time ago.) This a place with something like 1600/2400 average entering SAT scores. This place was not internationally competitive; I'm not even sure it was a research university. So, sure, people can call McGill "the Harvard of" Canada; that doesn't mean it's on the same level. It's a really good school, but I'd guess that it's more in the NYU or Emory range than the Harvard range, if we're comparing internationally. As in: people will be rightfully impressed if you go there, but might also reasonably look at you funny if you said you chose it over Harvard or MIT. Your department might be as good or better as the equivalent at Harvard, which could be a reason to choose it, but that would be the exception, not the rule.

Edited April 17, 2015 by knp

[TakeruK]

I think when people say "the Harvard of X", they might mean that "it's one of the best schools in X" because Harvard is one of the top schools in the US. 

 

So although I personally do not like the expression "the Harvard of X", I would say with my interpretation above, McGill is indeed "the Harvard of Canada" because it is one of the best schools in Canada (top 3, exact ranking depends on your field). 

 

However, "the Harvard of X" does not mean "as good as Harvard, but in another place". All Canadian research universities are public, which means that pretty much all top US schools (almost all private) will be better than the best schools in Canada. MIT is definitely a better place to be than McGill, overall (again, maybe there are some specific programs where this is not true). 

 

The way I see it, when you put Canadian and American universities on a ranking scale, I'd say the first tier (top schools) are places like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. and the second tier might be other strong schools but just can't quite compete with the top tier -- this list totally depends on the field of course, in mine, it would be places like U Michigan, U Maryland, U Washington, etc. I would say the best Canadian schools (McGill, Toronto, UBC) fall within this tier. 

 

You can also see this in world university rankings. These top Canadian schools are generally ranked 20th through 50th, while the "top 20" worldwide tend to be the "top tier" I mentioned above. See link: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/physical-sciences

[RunnerGrad]

I think when people say "the Harvard of X", they might mean that "it's one of the best schools in X" because Harvard is one of the top schools in the US. 

 

So although I personally do not like the expression "the Harvard of X", I would say with my interpretation above, McGill is indeed "the Harvard of Canada" because it is one of the best schools in Canada (top 3, exact ranking depends on your field). 

 

However, "the Harvard of X" does not mean "as good as Harvard, but in another place". All Canadian research universities are public, which means that pretty much all top US schools (almost all private) will be better than the best schools in Canada. MIT is definitely a better place to be than McGill, overall (again, maybe there are some specific programs where this is not true). 

 

The way I see it, when you put Canadian and American universities on a ranking scale, I'd say the first tier (top schools) are places like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. and the second tier might be other strong schools but just can't quite compete with the top tier -- this list totally depends on the field of course, in mine, it would be places like U Michigan, U Maryland, U Washington, etc. I would say the best Canadian schools (McGill, Toronto, UBC) fall within this tier. 

 

You can also see this in world university rankings. These top Canadian schools are generally ranked 20th through 50th, while the "top 20" worldwide tend to be the "top tier" I mentioned above. See link: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/physical-sciences

 

The University of Toronto is ranked 19 in that link.  So is it in the top tier?  Or is it in your next tier?  Personally, I think it is a top tier school, although I'm not sure how much longer it will remain there.  Certainly in medicine and health, UofT is one of the top in the world, if you go by rankings.  It's 13th in this list: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/clinical-pre-clinical-health

[twentysix]

The University of Toronto is ranked 19 in that link.  So is it in the top tier?  Or is it in your next tier?  Personally, I think it is a top tier school, although I'm not sure how much longer it will remain there.  Certainly in medicine and health, UofT is one of the top in the world, if you go by rankings.  It's 13th in this list: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/clinical-pre-clinical-health

 

Top tier is usually top 10.

 

It could also be construed as top 15 or top 20. If you want to call it top tier, go for it.

[TakeruK]

The University of Toronto is ranked 19 in that link.  So is it in the top tier?  Or is it in your next tier?  Personally, I think it is a top tier school, although I'm not sure how much longer it will remain there.  Certainly in medicine and health, UofT is one of the top in the world, if you go by rankings.  It's 13th in this list: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/clinical-pre-clinical-health

 

I think this is a good way to point out that rankings are not "precise" and my statement about "top 20" is just an arbitrarily chosen number. Something ranked, say 18th to 22nd (again, more arbitrary numbers!!) could fit in either tier. That is, I don't think these divisions are super strict and as pointed out in the other McGill vs X thread, where a school falls can be really field dependent.

 

So, I don't usually want to try to differentiate between 1st and 3rd ranking, or 15th and 17th or 21st and 25th etc. My attempt to categorize schools into 3 or 4 broad tiers tries to eliminate these fine details but of course, at the arbitrarily chosen boundaries, we'll run into the same problems. But I hope the intention of my above example was clear--that the elite US schools are a step above Canada's best schools in the physical sciences.

 

But these elite US schools are all well funded (mostly private schools). It is hard for Canadian public schools to compete and I think the Canadian top 3 is stronger than a lot of US state schools. I don't think it's fair to compare the elite US private schools with Canadian schools, or other public state schools in the US and elsewhere.

[fuzzylogician]

On 4/20/2015 at 11:41 AM, TakeruK said:

But these elite US schools are all well funded (mostly private schools). It is hard for Canadian public schools to compete and I think the Canadian top 3 is stronger than a lot of US state schools. I don't think it's fair to compare the elite US private schools with Canadian schools, or other public state schools in the US and elsewhere.

 

^This. MIT is so much richer, you can't even begin to compare. There are a lot more opportunities there. That said, McGill is also very good, at least in my field, and would be considered "top tier," if that actually mattered for anything. They are both very good schools. I find these rank comparisons kind of useless, though -- you should always relativize this question to a particular domain (better placement record in X? More publications in top-tier journals in Y? More grant money?), and once you do, there are usually better ways of determining the answer than just looking at rankings.