SAIS in Nanjing anyone?

[amberh]

I've been trying to find feedback about the MA in International Studies program through Johns Hopkins in Nanjing. Are there any current or former students on this forum that have pros and cons to share about it?

I don't know if the SAIS in DC or Bologna program acceptance rates can be compared to the Nanjing one, but I was also wondering how much it matters if your letters of rec aren't from former professors. I tried to wing it last time around when I applied for schools 2 years ago (that was 1 year out of college then), since I worked at thinktanks/in academia full-time afterward. Has anyone successfully applied to SAIS w/out academic references before? I'm thinking that now that I'm 3 years out of UG, it might be ok...

[carpecc]

I haven't done the Nanjing program, but have thought about it, been encouraged by Nanjing faculty to consider it and have friends who have done it. Here's the pros and cons as I see it.

Pros.

Great network for working in China. Both on the Chinese and foreign side. The Nanjing graduates are all talented people who are future movers and shakers in China.

Great course work on politics and economics in China. You really know the lay of the land after you're done at Nanjing and will have the confidence to work business in China.

Your teachers are Chinese.

Cons:

You need to be very proficient in Chinese and pass a fluency test to take this program. This may or may not be a big issue for you, but all teaching and coursework for US students is in Chinese.

You have have to room with a Chinese classmate in a dorm for the whole year and vice-versa (not sure about the new masters programs they offer). If your roommate is cool, this isn't a big issue, if he's not cool or you're fed up with living with roommates, this is kind of a pain in the ass.

The yearlong program is just a certificate program and doesn't necessarily get you an awesome job afterwords. I know graduates who've ended up in great places. I know others who struggled to get the careers they wanted, end up with low paying jobs after the program and would love to have the jobs I've had. This program isn't a guarantee.

You're teachers are Chinese. The standards of teaching and evaluating coursework are much different and often less stringent then the are in the US. You're paying big bucks for this. But the faculty from what I hear are pretty inconsistent. Some are awesome, others totally just randomly assign grades.This is just from what I hear.

Again, I haven't attended this program. Any Nanjing grads have anything to say?

[amberh]

That's good to hear. I've been trying to find negative things people have had to say about it, but it seems to be really hard to come across on the web. How come your friends had a tough time finding jobs? What was their background like? Is it partially because they did the certificate instead of the MA?

I'm not too concerned about passing the Chinese test part (am Chinese American and have been in Beijing for bout 1.5 years). The program is almost half the price of the SIPA MIA, and I think I'd be gaining valuable skills -- fluency in Chinese by the time I finish, as well as focused knowledge on China. Any thoughts on what the strengths of SIPA are compared to HNC? Are they stronger in any course(s) or area?

If I were to get into the program, I would have been in China for 4 years... at this point, I really can't imagine staying longer than that, so I wouldn't be using the connections in China so much as the U.S. ones.

carpecc -- were you studying at Nanjing at some point? What's your personal experience there are a student? How come you decided not to in the end?

[carpecc]

I have never studied in Nanjing, but thought about it. In the end there's the cons I listed above and the fact that I want to get a masters that more directly addresses the development and non profit issues I'm interested in. Nanjing Hopkins strikes my as very econ-law heavy program. Check out the concentrations. http://nanjing.jhu.edu/academics/concentrations/index.htm

Also I've been in China long time (8+) years and I want to go ahead and spend some time getting a "global perspective" on things. What I like about SIPA:

-50% international students, It'd be great to hear what everyone else is doing.

-Many of the teachers are actual practitioners which is attractive for me.

-Quant heavy, but not as much as Hopkins or Tufts. I'm more of a qualitative dude.

-New York is a way better city than Nanjing!

About my friends. Don't get me wrong, the program is great and can lead to some awesome jobs. But it's not a "magic bullet" that guarantees graduates are making 20k RMB a month afterwords. One friend in particular had trouble finding a good deal in Shanghai, ended up doing consulting for less than 10k RMB a month. But that was years ago, he's doing awesome now at a job non China related. The other people I know well that went there (6 or so, attended at different times) are all doing pretty good, some of them doing some awesome projects.

[ashtangi]

I thought it migt be good to resurect this topic. I am doing so in hopes that other people can further elaborate on the overall quality of the program.

Edited March 13, 2010 by ashtangi

[Lujie]

I found out last week that I got into the MA program (conditionally, still have to pass the MA level proficiency exam), however the financial aid they gave me makes me wonder if it's even financially feasible to swing going here.

Has anyone else been accepted? What did your financial aid package look like?

Moving back to China and doing more academic work at a Chinese university aside (already have this experience and know what to expect), does anyone have any insight into whether the amount of debt is worth it for this program? Is more aid available during the second year? I'm looking at going into government service after graduation, not working in China.

I feel so conflicted, this was one of my top choice programs...

Edited March 20, 2010 by Lujie

[Gouku]

It looks like another resurrection is needed here. I would really appreciate if someone who actually finished this program can provide additional info. My majors were Chinese and IR in undergrad, so the MAIS and 5-semester-option both seem like a nice fit. However, I want to learn a bit more about the pros and cons compared with the regular DC/Bologna. Anyone?

[deadhead47]

I go to SAIS Europe (the Bologna Center)

I don't know much about the Nanjing Center, but here's my thought on DC and BC.

 

Pro

DC - arguably more rigorous, great internship opportunities, fascinating faculty, more options for the language courses

BC - experiences in Europe, close friendship, smaller competition when taking classes, some classes only offered in the BC

 

Con

DC - more competition when taking classes

BC - limited number of courses (including the language courses) and faculty compared to DC, limited opportunities for getting internships

 

There are many Chinese-speaking people in both DC and BC though, so you get to practice your Chinese skills if not at an academic level.

You can't take Asian languages in the Bologna Center though.

[justsomeguy75]

Yep I was considering SAIS Bologna as well (no need for the GRE hehe..)

[IRToni]

From what I hear, SAIS Nanjing has the problem that Chinese professors tend to "dumb down" their classes so foreigners can understand them. They want to adress this with making proficiency requirements more stringent, but I don't know if they've done that. When I was looking at SAIS Nanjing, you only needed HSK 5 (new) for the certificate, which, IMO, isn't really enough to follow actual academic coursework. As a result, some students I talked to were unsatisfied with the level of the courses, just bc of the simple Chinese (slow speak etc) used. Other professors, who didn't "dumb down" their courses, on the other hand, had trouble getting a good discussion going.

For me, the fact that you need a semester more if you wanna graduate from SAIS in DC also raised a red flag, TBH. Since I've already studied at a Chinese university, I ultimately decided not to apply to NJ!

[rhodeislander]

From what I hear, SAIS Nanjing has the problem that Chinese professors tend to "dumb down" their classes so foreigners can understand them. They want to adress this with making proficiency requirements more stringent, but I don't know if they've done that. When I was looking at SAIS Nanjing, you only needed HSK 5 (new) for the certificate, which, IMO, isn't really enough to follow actual academic coursework. As a result, some students I talked to were unsatisfied with the level of the courses, just bc of the simple Chinese (slow speak etc) used. Other professors, who didn't "dumb down" their courses, on the other hand, had trouble getting a good discussion going.

For me, the fact that you need a semester more if you wanna graduate from SAIS in DC also raised a red flag, TBH. Since I've already studied at a Chinese university, I ultimately decided not to apply to NJ!

This is what I hear as well. I don't have personal experience at HNC (does anyone on this board?) but I've known a few people who went through it. Of the two people I know who went through it in the last year, one was extremely enthusiastic and basically said it changed his life, while the other was extremely cynical about the fact that he took out loans for what he saw as a huge waste of time (I should note that the first guy is doing the full masters while the second is just doing the certificate).The general consensus was that many of the Chinese courses were kind of a joke and many students were simply not up to par language-wise, which is why you need the extra semester in DC. Also, they both made clear that this is not the be treated as a language course. You have to come in knowing Chinese, as you aren't going to just magically learn it on the fly the way some of their classmates were expecting. However it does seem like a very interesting year and the networking is undeniably great if that's your thing.

 

-Quant heavy, but not as much as Hopkins or Tufts. I'm more of a qualitative dude.

Okay, so this is from a few years ago, but I feel the need to clear this up: Tufts is NOT quant heavy. In fact, its probably the least quant heavy of all the major programs. We take one econ class (which can be a basic principles class if you're coming in with no experience), and one quant class like stats/data analysis. You can certainly take more, and many people do, but unlike other programs its completely optional if you've picked a non-economic focus. In fact many of us chose Fletcher because we didn't see the point in nearly half our courses being in something unrelated to our professional goals.

[Steve]

For anyone interested, HNC is doing an online information session tomorrow at noon (US EST). I'm on their email list which is how I found out, but I imagine the link is on their admission blog as well. No registration as far as I can tell, just click the link at the established time.

[gomer]

I went to HNC and now am a student at SAIS. Feel free to PM me if you have questions about either program.

[IR2015]

Hey all - anyone have a POV on the SAIS HNC Certificate/SAIS Masters program? It used to be 5 semesters but now they say that it's feasible to graduate in the regular two years and do the first in Nanjing and second year in DC... I'm thinking this could be a great way to improve my language skills and come out with a SAIS Masters with a strong specialization in China. Any thoughts or info anyone has on this would be very helpful!

[ir_gradstudent]

From what I hear, SAIS Nanjing has the problem that Chinese professors tend to "dumb down" their classes so foreigners can understand them. They want to adress this with making proficiency requirements more stringent, but I don't know if they've done that. When I was looking at SAIS Nanjing, you only needed HSK 5 (new) for the certificate, which, IMO, isn't really enough to follow actual academic coursework. As a result, some students I talked to were unsatisfied with the level of the courses, just bc of the simple Chinese (slow speak etc) used. Other professors, who didn't "dumb down" their courses, on the other hand, had trouble getting a good discussion going.

For me, the fact that you need a semester more if you wanna graduate from SAIS in DC also raised a red flag, TBH. Since I've already studied at a Chinese university, I ultimately decided not to apply to NJ!

 

I spent my entire undergraduate as a foreign student at an Asian university in a country neighboring China. I have been on the receiving end of some classes taught in English that were severely dumbed down because English wasn't the students' native language, so that's definitely one factor.

 

However, the low-level classes may also be an issue of the quality of instruction and that country's teaching culture. I do not have college experience in the U.S., so I don't have a good baseline to compare, but even classes in the native language of the country (which were the majority of classes that I took) were of very low quality. This is why I did not even consider continuing on to graduate school in the Asian country above, because after three years I was certain these big undercurrents were not going to change at the graduate level.

 

Just some insights that may be relevant to the situation in Nanjing. If you have not been abroad to China for any length of time, I would still recommend a study abroad program like this, in spite the negatives! If you're interested in China, studying abroad in China is a no-brainer.

Edited March 17, 2015 by ir_gradstudent

[zd0943]

I've lived in Beijing for a few years now and have met some folks who completed the two year MAIS degree at HNC. Those I've met who've completed the program are all doing quite well here and have VERY GOOD Mandarin skills. My overall impression is that the two year program at HNC prepares you well for dynamic, well paying jobs IN CHINA, mostly private sector, usually in things like consulting, intl trade, etc. 

 

As others note here though, a common complaint is that perhaps the program didn't have the consistent rigor one expects from a similar program in the West. Some classes are great, challenging, with compelling professors. Others can feel like "fluff" classes, or have teachers that give out grades somewhat arbitrarily. 

 

I actually considered doing the SAIS DC-HNC program, where you spend a year in Nanjing followed by 1-1.5 years in DC, depending on concentration. I ultimately decided however that my time here has enabled me to develop a textured understanding of China and Mandarin already, and that I'd prefer to bring that knowledge with me to a US institution.