Question about Applying to Education PhD from Different Academic Background

[bar_scene_gambler]

Hello all,

 

I'm currently a masters candidate at a well-respected MA program in philosophy (in the US). I'm thinking about applying to some Education PhD's next application season, but I'm a bit green and don't know much about the field. So, I have some questions.

 

First, however, I should probably explain why I'm thinking about applying to PhD's in Education. One of my main areas of interest is the philosophy and history of education. I'm especially interested in educational theory. However, there isn't much interest in the philosophy of education in the philosophical world. So, I figured, in addition to applying to philosophy PhD's, I'd look into PhD's in education that are well-regarded and that focus on theory.

 

So, my questions are:

 

1. Is there a designated ranking system for PhD programs in Education? For philosophy we have the Philosophical Gourmet Report, which, while not perfect, is helpful for getting a broad-strokes look at where it's worth applying to.

 

2. Is it worth looking into PhD's in Educational Theory?

 

3. If there isn't a well-regarded ranking system, what are some good programs that focus on educational theory?

 

4. I've looked into U Penn's PhD in Education, Culture, and Society. It seems to be the kind of thing I'm looking for, but is it a good program? Since I'm looking to teach at a university, placement is very important, but I can't find their placement data.

 

5. What are PhD's in education generally looking for? Obviously GRE's, GPA, recommendations, and so on are the core of any application, but what about things like the writing sample? Do I have to have a writing sample on education? My master's thesis is, broadly speaking, on education, but it's obviously going to be more philosophy than anything else. Will that matter? And what are the other components to a strong application?

 

6. I'm only looking to apply to PhD's that are fully funded. Penn's looks like it is. Is that common or uncommon for PhD's in Education?

 

7.. More generally speaking, what's the academic environment like in education? In philosophy, it's somewhat divisive because of different schools of methodology and focus. Is it similar in education?

 

 

Sorry for the mass of, what probably seems like, simple questions, but, I'm totally unfamiliar with the academic environment in education. Any help would be immensely appreciated.

[bar_scene_gambler]

In regards to (2), I'm not terribly interested in policy making. My interests in education are purely academic, which is to say that I'm interested in the theory side, not application. It's why I'm not looking into an Ed.D. That being the case, would you just advise against me applying at all? I'm okay with specializing in something largely unpopular. I'd be doing that if I decided to stay in philosophy and focus on the philosophy of education anyway. 

 

In terms of my lack of experience in education, what sort of thing would remedy that situation? Is it necessary if I'm interested in theory anyway? Can you give me more specifics on the sorts of things that qualify as "educational experience?" After all, I do have another year and some change until I graduate. I might be able to take steps to remedy the situation.

 

Thanks for responding to some of my inquiries. I really appreciate it. 

[bar_scene_gambler]

Also, I'm going to add another question, if anyone else knows the answer. I've been looking at Stanford's SHIPS program, U Penn's PhD Education, Culture, and Society, and Penn State's PhD in Educational Theory and Policy. Yet, for some reason, I can't find any information on their placement records. So, does anyone know how well these programs place, and, if not, does are these solid, reputable programs?

[Mattthew]

Here is a good ranking for PhD in Education with a breakdown by location and specialization: Best-Education-Schools.com

Edited May 31, 2015 by Mattthew

[viget]

Hello all,

 

I'm currently a masters candidate at a well-respected MA program in philosophy (in the US). I'm thinking about applying to some Education PhD's next application season, but I'm a bit green and don't know much about the field. So, I have some questions.

 

First, however, I should probably explain why I'm thinking about applying to PhD's in Education. One of my main areas of interest is the philosophy and history of education. I'm especially interested in educational theory. However, there isn't much interest in the philosophy of education in the philosophical world. So, I figured, in addition to applying to philosophy PhD's, I'd look into PhD's in education that are well-regarded and that focus on theory.

 

So, my questions are:

 

1. Is there a designated ranking system for PhD programs in Education? For philosophy we have the Philosophical Gourmet Report, which, while not perfect, is helpful for getting a broad-strokes look at where it's worth applying to.

 

2. Is it worth looking into PhD's in Educational Theory?

 

3. If there isn't a well-regarded ranking system, what are some good programs that focus on educational theory?

 

4. I've looked into U Penn's PhD in Education, Culture, and Society. It seems to be the kind of thing I'm looking for, but is it a good program? Since I'm looking to teach at a university, placement is very important, but I can't find their placement data.

 

5. What are PhD's in education generally looking for? Obviously GRE's, GPA, recommendations, and so on are the core of any application, but what about things like the writing sample? Do I have to have a writing sample on education? My master's thesis is, broadly speaking, on education, but it's obviously going to be more philosophy than anything else. Will that matter? And what are the other components to a strong application?

 

6. I'm only looking to apply to PhD's that are fully funded. Penn's looks like it is. Is that common or uncommon for PhD's in Education?

 

7.. More generally speaking, what's the academic environment like in education? In philosophy, it's somewhat divisive because of different schools of methodology and focus. Is it similar in education?

 

 

Sorry for the mass of, what probably seems like, simple questions, but, I'm totally unfamiliar with the academic environment in education. Any help would be immensely appreciated.

what follows is based on my own experience (just went through the phd app process this cycle) and conversations I've had with faculty at a number of ed schools.

 

re: 1) and placement data (which I've personally seen prominently displayed on very few ed schools' websites): instead of looking at rankings, I looked at where faculty members in programs I'd like to teach at someday got their degrees. I noticed trends, which helped me figure out which programs are turning out productive and sought-after graduates. talking to faculty and current students also can help give a sense of what programs are well regarded in your specific sub-field. also, no offense to mattthew, but I'm skeptical of that rankings site; there's some great ed schools that are conspicuously absent, and I find it very odd that Capella tops the list. I'm not sure how a degree from there would be viewed on the academic job market...

 

2) ed theory seems really niche; I can't think of any programs in that specifically. but history and philosophy of ed programs exist, so I'd look at those.

 

4) ECS has some wonderful faculty (I did my master's at PennGSE in a different division, but my favorite class was in ECS). ECS also is super interdisciplinary and the faculty encourage phd students to work with faculty in Arts&Sciences -- so you could work with people in the history, philosophy, anthro, or sociology departments (don't mention these faculty in your statement of purpose though -- PennGSE's statement of purpose is super short, so you need to focus on the standing GSE faculty members you want to work with).

 

5) for the phd, based on things I've heard, it seems the rec letters and statement of purpose are the most important. GPA/GRE matter to establish a baseline level of being "qualified" (and unfortunately, at some places, it seems like where you went matters too, not just how well you did), but the rec letters and SoP are what make you stand out and show your fit with the program. research experience is critically important, and the writing sample can be offer good insight into your ability to research and craft an argument, so I'd say it matters.

 

 

6) it's perhaps not fair to say it's common for education PhDs to be fully-funded, but neither is it uncommon. at 4 of the 5 schools I was admitted to, I was given a funding package of full funding (including summers) for 4+ years. full funding can happen, but it seems to be at schools where the app process is very competitive. full funding also means different things at different schools -- some places have more of a service (i.e. RA/TA) requirement, whereas others include service-free stipend support during key parts of the program. not all places that fully fund include summer funding, although finding income over the summer isn't necessarily a challenge at some of those places. full funding packages are sometimes offered by the graduate school, not the ed school, so there can be another level of competition for university-wide fellowships even once you've been vetted and approved for admission.

 

hope some of the above is helpful. PM me if you have further questions!

[themissingsock]

1) As always, US News Report has graduate school rankings for education and then by subdiscipline. I'd use their subdiscipline rankings once you find out which one you're going for. Of course, a good ranking of school largely falls upon its faculty. You should probably be more concerned with the fit with an advisor than the program at this point. Have you found any research papers published by faculty members you could try and work with?

 

2) I haven't seen too many programs focusing on Educational Theory. In terms of history of education, I have seen higher education programs focus on history and the creation of higher education. 

 

3) What do you mean by educational theory? Like types of learning theories?  These are typically explored in regards to learning within a discipline or population. I am not aware of programs that just focus on theory. One learning theory that is starting to become a trend is "Learning Sciences." Learning Sciences programs are becoming more prevalent.

 

4) I have heard good things about their program.

 

5) What matters the most is your fit with your potential advisor. Find a program that have a few faculty members that you have similar research interests and be sure to explicitly state how you fit with them and how it would benefit both you and them.

 

6) It truly depends. PhD programs that are research based with good faculty will be funded. Coming from an engineering background, I have noticed that education programs do struggle a bit more to find funding for their doctoral students.

 

7) Education is very diverse, so yes. There are many different disciplines and populations to focus on in education research. Instead of trying to focus on just educational theory, I may suggest you find a population group you want to try said educational theories on. Higher education? K-12? Are you interested in how philosophy undergraduate majors learn philosophy? 

 

I was in a very similar state as you. I have my master's in environmental engineering, and I made the transition to education. I'm now enrolled in doing a PhD in STEM Education focusing on engineering education. I am learning various education theories (active learning, zone of proximal development, John Dewey, etc.) and trying to fully more integrate them within engineering education. I find that education research (as a collective) is interested in theory, but a major part is applying said theories in the classroom. The research trend is moving towards to how do we apply these theories? I think less time and funding is spent on developing new educational theories. 

[bar_scene_gambler]

Thanks for the replies viget and themissingsock. When I say "educational theory," I'm referring to various, more philosophical, questions about higher education. So, for instance, I'm very interested in questions about whether educational institutions in the US should be pushing to be more democratic and liberal, questions about whether or not the goal of a university education should be the production of "good citizens" (see Nussbaum) or more politically aware individuals, whether or not the structure and curricula of our educational institutions should reflect our culture, or whether educational institutions should strive to be critical institutions, etc. These are highly theoretical questions, the sort that form niche specializations in both philosophy departments and (apparently) Colleges of Education. 

 

With that said, would it be advisable for me to even consider applying to PhD's in Education? Or will departments of education be as hostile towards these inquiries as philosophy departments?

Edited June 4, 2015 by bar_scene_gambler

[viget]

ahh, okay. I don't think ed theory is the term that best conveys your interests -- or at least, it's not a term I've heard people in the field use to describe such questions. I think there are absolutely programs in ed schools that will support those sorts of big-picture, philosophical questions -- I'm sure there are many others, but maybe look at ECS at Penn, CIS at Harvard, Stanford's SHIPS Philosophy of Ed, and maybe TC's Philosophy and Education?

 

in my application essay I expressed interest in some similarly big questions about education -- whom it serves, why it's going in the direction it's going in, is that a good thing, etc. I think the big thing with expressing an interest in that kind of stuff is to be very specific in your statement of purpose to show that your questions are thought-out, not vague and nebulous and half-formed -- but I think you'll be good at that, given the fact that you're already grounding your questions in a body of literature and a discipline. I second themissingsock's advice to think about choosing a domain within education if you decide to apply to education PhD programs. it might not be readily obvious from the outside that there are divides within the discipline, and it's kind of a shame that K-12 and higher ed are often so siloed, but knowing what particular populations or part of education you want to study can help narrow your areas of interest.

 

the other big thing I'd say to consider when you're thinking about applying to PhD program in Education vs. in Philosophy is where you want to wind up ultimately. what conferences do you want to go to? who do you want to be in dialogue with? if you want to teach in a philosophy department, you probably need the philosophy degree, but if you're interested in teaching in an ed school, there may be more flexibility.

[bar_scene_gambler]

It's interesting that you mention those programs, because those are pretty much the programs that I've been looking at since I started considering PhD's in Education. Though, in addition to those four, I'm also looking at U Washington's Education, Equity, and Society program and Penn State's Ed Theory and Policy program. Do you know anything about U Washington? Of the six, that's the program that I'm least certain about, since they don't have a placement record listed on their website and U Washington isn't exactly a Harvard, Penn, or Stanford. 

[themissingsock]

UW has a pretty established education program, and I think it would be great to go there. It terms of a program though, it seems like a PhD program focusing on Higher Education would also suit you. They tackle the question of the role of higher education in both a historical and philosophical perspective. Either way, it's great that you're open to having these discussions for yourself now, and I do think that it'd be great to have you in an education focused PhD program. If you're still at an university, I would recommend that you go visit your college of education and talk to a professor about your interests. I think you'll find that they'll be more happy to help you find what program would suit you. (If they're really nice, they may network you with other professors and this is a great way to get in a PhD program).

[bhr]

So this thread piqued my interest, as I'm looking at a similar decision myself I'm working on a rhet/comp MA at a top program, but my work has primarily centered around educational technology and digital pedagogy, so my committee has suggested that I consider an EdTech PhD. Thanks everyone who weighed in here, as you've put many of my concerns to rest.

[viget]

I think some higher ed doc programs would support those sorts of questions (that is, if you decide higher ed is your area of interest!), but perhaps not all to the same degree -- some higher ed programs are much more oriented toward policy or research-to-practice than big philosophical questions, or at least that's the vibe I got at some schools. and higher ed can be very focused on its own body of literature, so if you're looking for a strong disciplinary grounding for your work, you may want to focus on broader, more interdisciplinary programs like the ones you're already looking at (for example, I think that ECS at Penn would be a better fit for you than Higher Ed at Penn). The one downside with the programs you're looking at is that they're all ridiculously competitive -- like, admit rates of less than 5%, which means that tons of super qualified people don't get in. but if you apply to a good number of schools, you'll get in somewhere fantastic!

[t_ruth]

You can go to the highest-ranked program, but if your PI isn't well-regarded, you may not be able to break into the academic market. For a PhD, it's more about who you work with then where you go.