Do I even apply? Career counsel me.

[red_patch]

So I'm in a pretty bad muddle, and, having read through these forums a bunch, feel that you guys are really the only people who can give me some objective advice on my situation and let me know to what degree I might be fucked. Sorry in advance that this is so long and melodramatic.

 

I went to a "pretty good" school for undergrad, a "public Ivy" if you want to get your eyes rolling.The first few years of undergrad were bad. I was, unbeknownst to me at the time, dealing with an extremely serious disease that killed me slowly at first, but started snowballing spring of my sophomore year.  I refused treatment for a long time because I figured I was probably going to die walking to class one day anyway. That almost happened, but I was rushed to the hospital spring of junior year with all my organs failing etc., missed a bunch of exams but ultimately survived. Senior year was a grueling recovery process but I refused to take a year off.

 

Because of all this, my grades my first two years were awful, but not uniformly. I had As mostly in philosophy and my highest-level classes, but one failed class and a handful of Cs in gen-ed requirement classes I didn't put enough effort into.  It's still unclear to me how much of this was "illness" and how much was just my inherent stupidity and lack of competence.

 

Junior and senior year my grades were paradoxically better as my health spiraled out of control, but still pretty bad. About a 3.6 I think, with my final cumulative gpa being a fucking 3.0 because of that bloody failed class freshman year, etc. Yuck.

 

I graduated in 2013 and all I want is to be learning full-time again and to have concrete academic goals, instead of aimlessly picking at things in my free time. My partner is getting his PhD at one of the most prestigious universities in the world, not in philosophy but a related field, and being in that environment with him all the time makes this situation 1000x more crushing. 

 

The upside of dealing with my bodily vessel betraying me was that I learned a lot about human physiology, spent/spend lots of time reading medical journals and compiling research, and have a few things to say, maybe, on philosophy of medicine, cultural models of health, medical/health ontology, etc. I would love to something more formal with this, but am completely at a loss about what to actually do.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd probably need a postbac to pad my grades if I even wanted a hope of getting a funded masters, especially in that area. Does the fact that I'd need to do that already show I'm fundamentally unsuited to higher-level academic work anyway, i.e. if I was the right kind of person for doing this stuff I wouldn't have gotten shit grades in the first place? It would be difficult for me to get LORs, since I'm a few years out now and was too petrified of being outed as an idiot to talk much in most classes or make real connections with more than a prof or two (again pointing at being fundamentally unsuited for grad school?). I don't know. I feel very fucked.

 

Should I just let this go? Thanks so much for any advice or opinions you might be able to offer!

 

[sidebysondheim]

I don't think you should let it go if you genuinely want to pursue it. Padding your grades in a post-bacc would definitely be a good idea, probably more so for creating better relationships with letter writers and developing a strong writing sample. Grades are important, but you can always have a letter writer explain your situation and why your GPA is the way it is. Though I'd suspect you'd want very high GREs to balance that out. Furthermore, given your history and your (apparent) openness with sharing it, and that it turned into a positive research interest, you likely would have a great statement of purpose as well. 

[philosophe]

I agree with the above response. If possible, you should consider an MA program or post-bac (depending on where you're located). That way you can have a chance to present a more stable, positive academic record, and have a better launching point from which you can apply to phd programs.

 

That being said, if you're getting applications together already and don't mind the app fees, you could send them off to a few Phd programs. It certainly doesn't hurt, but of course they are wildly competitive, so you would want to choose lower ranked schools where you would have more of a chance of being considered. If you take this route, you would want to explain your circumstance in your personal statement. 

 

All in all, if you're unsure if this is the road for you, the only way the path will be available to you is to apply, so keep your options open and decide based on any acceptances. 

 

So I'm in a pretty bad muddle, and, having read through these forums a bunch, feel that you guys are really the only people who can give me some objective advice on my situation and let me know to what degree I might be fucked. Sorry in advance that this is so long and melodramatic.

 

I went to a "pretty good" school for undergrad, a "public Ivy" if you want to get your eyes rolling.The first few years of undergrad were bad. I was, unbeknownst to me at the time, dealing with an extremely serious disease that killed me slowly at first, but started snowballing spring of my sophomore year.  I refused treatment for a long time because I figured I was probably going to die walking to class one day anyway. That almost happened, but I was rushed to the hospital spring of junior year with all my organs failing etc., missed a bunch of exams but ultimately survived. Senior year was a grueling recovery process but I refused to take a year off.

 

Because of all this, my grades my first two years were awful, but not uniformly. I had As mostly in philosophy and my highest-level classes, but one failed class and a handful of Cs in gen-ed requirement classes I didn't put enough effort into.  It's still unclear to me how much of this was "illness" and how much was just my inherent stupidity and lack of competence.

 

Junior and senior year my grades were paradoxically better as my health spiraled out of control, but still pretty bad. About a 3.6 I think, with my final cumulative gpa being a fucking 3.0 because of that bloody failed class freshman year, etc. Yuck.

 

I graduated in 2013 and all I want is to be learning full-time again and to have concrete academic goals, instead of aimlessly picking at things in my free time. My partner is getting his PhD at one of the most prestigious universities in the world, not in philosophy but a related field, and being in that environment with him all the time makes this situation 1000x more crushing. 

 

The upside of dealing with my bodily vessel betraying me was that I learned a lot about human physiology, spent/spend lots of time reading medical journals and compiling research, and have a few things to say, maybe, on philosophy of medicine, cultural models of health, medical/health ontology, etc. I would love to something more formal with this, but am completely at a loss about what to actually do.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd probably need a postbac to pad my grades if I even wanted a hope of getting a funded masters, especially in that area. Does the fact that I'd need to do that already show I'm fundamentally unsuited to higher-level academic work anyway, i.e. if I was the right kind of person for doing this stuff I wouldn't have gotten shit grades in the first place? It would be difficult for me to get LORs, since I'm a few years out now and was too petrified of being outed as an idiot to talk much in most classes or make real connections with more than a prof or two (again pointing at being fundamentally unsuited for grad school?). I don't know. I feel very fucked.

 

Should I just let this go? Thanks so much for any advice or opinions you might be able to offer!

Edited June 15, 2015 by philosophe

[sidebysondheim]

I'd say that a post-bacc might be necessary to get into a good terminal MA. 

[red_patch]

From what I can tell, there isn't much pointing doing this unless you're really doing it, as one of the best, so I think you're probably right. Applying to poorly-ranked schools just to get into a program soon seems like suicide to me. Are there any postbacc programs that aren't insanely expensive?

 

Also, I don't know, how did any of you know pursuing this would be a good idea for you? Like, if you weren't "smart" enough to do this, how would you know? Your GREs? Rejections? But I see people getting shut out, even for multiple years, and just trying again. When do you stop trying and resign yourself to a non-academic life? This is probably a very naive and reductive question, but if I hit that marker I want to know.

 

Thanks for all the thoughts so far!

Edited June 16, 2015 by red_patch

[sidebysondheim]

I don't know if any of those will help because I started early and kind of led a "traditional" path.

 

The advice I received as a sophomore, being interested in going to grad school, was to see if I kept having reason to go further. I got good grades, so I started talking with professors. They encouraged me and gave me opportunities to research with them or TA for them. That worked out well, so I started sending papers to UG conferences, I got accepted to those, so I started applying for academic programs within my university, sending to UG journals, etc. That worked out so my professors were inclined to nominate me for university wide awards, and so on. I took it one step at a time, and every time something worked out I saw that as a reason to take it another step forward. The same professors also advised me that I need to figure when my quit date is before I started applying to graduate schools and I decided two years. I'd apply the first year, if I didn't get in anywhere, I'd tweak some aspects of my application and apply a second year. Shut out again? Then that's it. If I make it through my program, I'll have the same two year cut off for jobs. I think it's important to know when you're going to quit and move on with your life. 

[Duns Eith]

I think you have two radically different options, both not pleasant. Either give it all you've got now, or give up now. Either you need to change your narrative drastically (flawless writing sample, take some post-bac classes and only get A's, and/or get an MA in phil), or else... it is a complete lost cause. Your narrative is basically "I didn't do well in college, and my personal references are scarce." AdComs need to have confidence that your story arc goes in a different direction.

 

 

I don't know if any of those will help because I started early and kind of led a "traditional" path.

 

The advice I received as a sophomore, being interested in going to grad school, was to see if I kept having reason to go further. I got good grades, so I started talking with professors. They encouraged me and gave me opportunities to research with them or TA for them. That worked out well, so I started sending papers to UG conferences, I got accepted to those, so I started applying for academic programs within my university, sending to UG journals, etc. That worked out so my professors were inclined to nominate me for university wide awards, and so on. I took it one step at a time, and every time something worked out I saw that as a reason to take it another step forward. The same professors also advised me that I need to figure when my quit date is before I started applying to graduate schools and I decided two years. I'd apply the first year, if I didn't get in anywhere, I'd tweak some aspects of my application and apply a second year. Shut out again? Then that's it. If I make it through my program, I'll have the same two year cut off for jobs. I think it's important to know when you're going to quit and move on with your life. 

I didn't have near the encouragement or opportunities, but I am having to take a similar tack.

 

I went to school for psychology and philosophy. I was encouraged in my efforts, but no prof said "you should apply for a PhD". I went on to seminary and got a MA in religion. After that my references were still willing to write supporting recommendations. I got into an MA in philosophy. After this MA, I will try for 2 years for a PhD. If I don't get in, then, I will give up. If I do get in, I will try for 2 years to get sustainable income working in philosophy, and if nothing then give up.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Turretin

[ianfaircloud]

 

Should I just let this go? Thanks so much for any advice or opinions you might be able to offer!

 

Here's a simple (maybe too simple) answer. You sound like a good candidate for a master's program in philosophy. Master's programs generally offer people an opportunity either to prove that their undergraduate experience doesn't accurately reflect their philosophical potential or to pad the resume by demonstrating philosophical potential at a master's program. Candidates include people with little background in philosophy, people who went to bad schools, or people who didn't have strong grades.

 

You seem like an ideal candidate, if I read your situation correctly. You did fairly well in your philosophy classes. You attended a strong undergraduate institution. You kept your ahead above water, despite serious personal challenges. In my experience, MA students from stronger undergraduate institutions tend to do better (generally) in PhD admissions. The fact that you have a credible and convincing explanation of your lower grades -- and the fact that the worst grades weren't in philosophy -- are good reasons that your grades may be explained away by a good letter-writer.

 

Do you have a good relationship with any philosopher from this public Ivy? Would this person retell the same story that you told us? Would this person say that you have great philosophical potential?

 

I think this story could have a happy ending. Good luck to you.