Can I defer multiple offers, or can I defer one and apply to another program?

[Desi_Mama]

Hello,

 

The short version of my question is: can I defer an offer and still keep my options open?

 

My scenario: I have offers from two programs, but I would like to delay start of grad school to Fall 2016 due to some financial and family circumstances. I was wondering if I need to commit to a program if I am asking for a deferral.

What I expect: Defer offers from both programs and make a decision by April 2016, just as a fall 2016 applicant would do!

 

My reasons:

1. Professor's funding scenario might change - In both the places, I am interested in working with only 3-4 faculty members. I am not comfortable with committing to start in Fall 2016 without knowing if they would have openings in their group, and whether they are as interested in working with me, as I am with them.
   I just had some passing email conversations with them which went like "come here, we can talk, and then decide about positions in my lab". I guess if I ask them for Fall 2016 information now, their reply would be something to the effect of check back at a later stage (say December, January). My opinion is that it is not wise to commit under such uncertain circumstances.
    
2. My interests might change - I will be taking up a job at a reputed research lab (along lines of Microsoft, Google, Bell, IBM etc.) as a research assistant (intern). The work would entail doing research and possibilities of publishing in top conferences or journals. Since I would be working there for at least 6 months before April '16, my interests could change a bit (I am certain about an area which is quite broad - but I may sway more mathematical, more computational, practical, applications in biology etc.). In such a case, one program may be more appealing than the other, and I would prefer to make that choice towards April.
    
3. There are other universities too - Though I am happy and content with the offers I have, there are a world of other options too. This in some sense relates to my previous point. If I develop a keen interest in some niche, there may be other universities with great expertise in that area which may be worth looking into.
    
4. Committing to a program now will psychologically limit me from exploring. A direct extension of my previous point - if I commit to a program, I would be reluctant to explore topics outside the universities' expertise. This may not be feasible since the problem I get to work on would most likely be picked by my employer.

Is there any way around this? I don't want to let go of all my options and apply again next year. Also, if I turn down these universities, I am not sure if they will admit me again. The universities under question are very good research fits for me without a doubt, but I wish to keep my options open, not be confined, and be allowed to explore. If someone has good suggestions or have encountered a similar situation before, please let me know. Thank you.

[phdreally]

One defers the start date, not the decision on the offer. So deferring implies you have committed to the program, but need more time before starting. It is NOT meant to be the "holding pattern" you are looking for.

[Desi_Mama]

One defers the start date, not the decision on the offer. So deferring implies you have committed to the program, but need more time before starting. It is NOT meant to be the "holding pattern" you are looking for.

Can you suggest any alternatives? I don't want to commit to a program at this stage, but at the same time I don't want to let go of the offer. Would the program be OK with it if I applied to other places? Do I need to explicitly ask permission for the same if I defer?

[TakeruK]

I agree with phdreally--a deferral is just a delayed start date, not extra time to decide between schools. However, I would interpret a deferral as "delayed start date provided everything stays the same". That is, I think it's okay for you to defer for financial and family reasons, and then if the professor's funding falls through, it's completely reasonable for you to change your mind since the offer is now different than the one you deferred. Also, I think it's perfectly fine to defer because you are not 100% certain you want to attend a PhD program at all. In my field, it's fine to defer for a job in industry and then if you decide you actually don't want to go back to school, it's fine to decline the offer.

 

However, it is not okay to defer multiple offers from different schools and it is not okay to defer the offer from a school to apply to more schools. The way I see it is that you can defer only if you commit to that school should you choose the academic path. 

 

 

Can you suggest any alternatives? I don't want to commit to a program at this stage, but at the same time I don't want to let go of the offer. Would the program be OK with it if I applied to other places? Do I need to explicitly ask permission for the same if I defer?

 

The only ethical alternative I can think of is to be honest with the program and say exactly that. Some schools will allow this. Some schools will say that their admission offer is valid for one year (so you can just delay accepting the offer, rather than deferring) but the funding offer expired on April 15. 

 

To me, it sounds like you might just be having normal "second thoughts" when making a big decision. However, if you are truly not ready to commit to this program (and not apply to other opportunities), then I would advise you to reevaluate whether you want to go to grad school or not. If you are still not sure, the best thing to do is to just reapply to more schools next year (don't commit to anything this year). You can't have it both ways and keep an offer in hand while also exploring others (not unless you have explicit permission).

[phdreally]

Is @cheme_pse and @Desi_Mama the same person? Very confusing and similar stories!

[Desi_Mama]

Is @cheme_pse and @Desi_Mama the same person? Very confusing and similar stories!

We are friends. I borrowed his computer, and I guess he had automatic sign-in. Forgot to log-in to my account

 

My last post in a nutshell: I am switching majors from MechE to CS. Got into a top ranked MS program but not funded, so couldn't afford (some vague promise of partial funding was given, but I wasn't convinced). Got into a PhD program in top 25, but I feel I can do better since I performed well in my BS (high GPA, one paper). I have an RA job in an R&D lined up (temporary paid intern) which I think will improve my odds. Want to apply again next year, but don't want to throw away the offer I have (what if I get nothing next year?). Essentially I want a safety net and I am not sure how to approach it.

How do I go about tell a university that I want to keep my options open?

 

The only ethical alternative I can think of is to be honest with the program and say exactly that. Some schools will allow this. Some schools will say that their admission offer is valid for one year (so you can just delay accepting the offer, rather than deferring) but the funding offer expired on April 15. 

 

If I tell them that I want to make a decision by say March next year, will they not agree for funding? I understand that it won't be *guaranteed*, but are there good odds that I will get funding if I indicate interest at that time?

Edited June 17, 2015 by Desi_Mama

[TakeruK]

I don't know whether or not you'll be able to get funding as it really depends on each individual case. I don't think they will "punish" you by not offering funding, but you will probably have to compete for funding again (i.e. if there are new applicants that they would prefer to give funding to instead of you, then you might end up in a scenario where you are admitted but do not have a funding offer).

 

Also, please note that this might not even be a possibility. The school might require you to reapply all over again.

 

But if that is the case, then you should accept that. You are asking for something that is not normally granted in academia. Normally, if you want the option to apply to more schools, you can't also have a safety net offer in hand. That's just not how it works.

[Desi_Mama]

Thank you. I will be straight up honest with the program, and ask what the possibilities are. If they ask me to reapply, as you said, I have no other option but to go that route. I only hope that they don't "punish" me by not taking me again - though this seems likely since they would figure out that the program is sort of my "safety" option. I just have to live with it I guess. Wish me luck for the next year

[Desi_Mama]

Taking advice from here, I decided not to defer both the options. I am planning to defer only the program which I have currently accepted. I inquired about the process (not with the program chair, but with an admissions assistant/secretary), and they told me that it is possible to defer the offer, but financial support will not be guaranteed in such a case.

 

Basically, as TakeruK pointed out, I will be compared with the Fall 2016 application pool - based on which funding will be allocated (fellowship, TA, RA, or none). I currently have a TA/RA, so I am not confident of an "upgrade" to fellowship. Not sure about the possibility of funding either - they say it is not guaranteed, but I would likely be given funding. Any suggestions? If funding is not guaranteed, should I go ahead and ask them if I can apply to more programs (which would be ideal in my case )? Or should I drop it altogether, and say I will apply again next year?

[TakeruK]

Basically, as TakeruK pointed out, I will be compared with the Fall 2016 application pool - based on which funding will be allocated (fellowship, TA, RA, or none). I currently have a TA/RA, so I am not confident of an "upgrade" to fellowship. Not sure about the possibility of funding either - they say it is not guaranteed, but I would likely be given funding. Any suggestions? If funding is not guaranteed, should I go ahead and ask them if I can apply to more programs (which would be ideal in my case )? Or should I drop it altogether, and say I will apply again next year?

 

If you really want to apply to different schools next year, then don't defer. Tell them that you have now decided that you are not certain yet for your plans for Fall 2016. You can mention that you will reapply, however, if you do so, they might ask "why not defer, then?" and saying that you want to apply to other schools as well would be a risk. This might end up reflecting poorly on you as it shows you are indecisive. But, it might also be helpful for you, because they might explicitly say something like "okay go ahead and apply to other schools, your admission offer will still be valid next year".

 

If you are content with deferring this school's offer and attending in Fall 2016, then I don't think you have to worry too much about funding. It might depend on field, but I don't usually see huge variations in incoming classes. If you were competitive for funding for Fall 2015, you will likely still be competitive in Fall 2016. Excpetions are for very small programs or if you happen to be near the bottom of the pool (or if you were admitted off a waitlist, whether it was an explicit or implicit waitlist). 

[Desi_Mama]

I agree with you that asking if they are OK with me applying to more programs is a double edged sword. On one hand, it is possible that they may be OK with it, in which case its almost close to an ideal scenario for me. However, when I ask them, if they say my funding will be guaranteed, then it will look very bad to pull out.

I guess I'll just tell the program chair that I have an internship lined up, which added with some family and financial circumstances, seems a better option. I'll also let them know that if I feel like I can start by Fall 2016, I'll apply by the December deadline. Thanks for your inputs

[TakeruK]

Taking advice from here, I decided not to defer both the options. I am planning to defer only the program which I have currently accepted. I inquired about the process (not with the program chair, but with an admissions assistant/secretary), and they told me that it is possible to defer the offer, but financial support will not be guaranteed in such a case.

 

 

I agree with you that asking if they are OK with me applying to more programs is a double edged sword. On one hand, it is possible that they may be OK with it, in which case its almost close to an ideal scenario for me. However, when I ask them, if they say my funding will be guaranteed, then it will look very bad to pull out.

 

I'm a little confused--you said funding is not guaranteed, but now you say it might be? My above advice was written with the "no funding guarantee" in mind and that it would be like you said: you will be compared with the Fall 2016 applicants and find out about your funding offer when they make the Fall 2016 decisions.

[Desi_Mama]

I'm a little confused--you said funding is not guaranteed, but now you say it might be? My above advice was written with the "no funding guarantee" in mind and that it would be like you said: you will be compared with the Fall 2016 applicants and find out about your funding offer when they make the Fall 2016 decisions.

Funding is not guaranteed now. Basically, I will get information sometime before April 2016 if funding is available or not. (I will be compared against class of Fall 2016 for funding).

 

What I meant was, suppose if I ask the program whether it would be OK if I apply to a few more programs as back-up option (the reason I would give them is lack of guaranteed funding); the program chair after hearing that request may actually agree to defer + guaranteed funding, which is not ideal for me. I don't know if this scenario is actually possible, but just saying. 

 

Do you think I should go ahead and ask anyway - something like: "since funding is not guaranteed, and I also want to keep my options open, is it OK if I apply to a few more programs as alternatives?"

 

Also, does one need to explicitly ask for permission before doing so? I mean, they are not guaranteeing funding, so is it not reasonable for a student to explore alternate options? If someone isn't active in looking at other opportunities, it may be possible that he/she may end up with no other offers and no financial support from the deferred program, which will be quite sad. Though the probability of such a scenario might be small as TakeruK noted, but it is certainly not negligible.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Desi_Mama

[TakeruK]

I think you should tell them when you make your decision to defer because it will reflect poorly on you if you do not. I agree with you that since funding is not guaranteed, it is reasonable to apply to other places. I think you should say the example you put in your post.

 

I think it is highly unlikely that they will decide to give you guaranteed funding once they hear that you want to apply elsewhere. Don't worry about that. Basically, by telling you that you can defer but there's no guarantee of funding, they are effectively allowing themselves to reject you next year if you don't compare well to the Fall 2016 applicants because an admission to a PhD program with no funding is effectively a rejection. However, they aren't making you completely reapply because the reality is that if you got in one year, you will likely get in next year. Although if you have a stronger application, you should send them updated materials.

 

But you really really sound like you don't want to be attending this school and I don't think it makes sense to go through all of this deferral stuff just to hang onto a safety school. To me, it sounds like the best course of action is for you to thank them for their time, let them know that you are not planning to attend grad school in Fall 2015 for the reasons you said above, and say that you will think about grad school again for Fall 2016. Then, apply to whatever schools you want, including this school if you would like a safety. Since a deferral means you must compete with other Fall 2016 applicants for funding anyways, it's not that much different than reapplying and your new application might be stronger than the old one. 

 

I think all of this reapplying business is making the whole deferral process super complicated (and you won't get what you want out of it anyways) because this is not what the deferral process is intended to do. Like I said above, if you got in for Year X, you will likely get in for Year X+1, so if you want a safety school, just reapply to this one next time.

[Desi_Mama]

Thanks TakeruK,

 

I agree with you. It doesn't make much sense to go through all this hassle. I'll let the program chair know soon that I will just reapply, but I need to do so very politely. They have put up with all my nonsense for sometime, so I am really indebted.

 

It appears both myself and the program want to keep the options open. I can basically say that I applied to more programs since funding wasn't guaranteed, and after talking to faculty, found another school to be a better research fit. If they don't want me, they can simply say funding is not available, and I'll certainly not attend in that case. This problem is basically set up for a disastrous Nash equilibrium. I totally agree that it's best for all parties to simply reapply. Thanks for your inputs.

Also, just another quick question. Do you know the difference between the following terms: "deferring enrollment" vs "deferring admission"? Basically the program chair said I can't defer enrollment, but I can defer admission. I assume the former means guaranteed financial support. Is that a fair assessment? If so, then it basically reinforces my previous point about the program wanting to keep their options open as well. Cheers

Edited June 26, 2015 by Desi_Mama

[TakeruK]

It can really depend on how each school defines the terms. Broadly, I would agree with your assessment. I would say that deferring enrollment means you have already accepted the offer (with whatever funding is involved with the offer letter) but you won't enroll in the program until later. It's similar to taking a sabbatical or leave of absence in the middle of your program, but at the beginning instead. Deferring admission is extending the time you have to accept their offer for admission but the financial support might not be there.

[juilletmercredi]

I'm taking a step back and to me, it looks like you aren't ready to make the commitment to graduate school. You seem a little unsure of your interests and afraid that they may change; you also don't seem like you're totally on board with attending the program(s) to which you've been admitted. I understand the impetus to want to keep your options open, and that's okay, but I think if you do that then you can't really defer admissions to any program. Just let it go and apply next year or the year after when you are more ready.

 

You say that you understand that deferment is not a holding pattern that allows you extended time to decide on a school, but in your latest posts you don't really seem to understand the implications of that. That means that if you defer this school you are telling them that you plan to begin the program in fall of 2016, barring unforeseen circumstances. Unforeseen circumstances are things like military service or your health declining - not "I wasn't really sure in summer 2015 that I was going to attend anyway..." I'm a big fan of being able to change your mind and doing what's best for you, but it's one thing to be dedicated to graduate school in June of 2015 and then suddenly decide in February of 2016 that you don't want to go to grad school anymore. It's a totally different thing to be indecisive about the whole endeavor from jump and hold a position away from someone else while you decide.

 

The program's "keeping their options open" isn't really equivalent to you trying to keep your options open. They don't want to dedicate funding to someone who isn't sure that they are going to attend. And their funding guarantee in fall of 2015 was contingent upon the funding that they had this year and the applicant pool they have now. Things can change significantly in an academic year, which is why they can't guarantee - the line they may have had for you may dry up, or things may shift considerably.

 

To me, it sounds like you need to decline the offer and go on about your life. If you decide that you want to attend graduate school next year, then you can apply again. But right now it doesn't really sound like you want to commit - which isn't a judgment thing. I think it's perfectly fine! Just make peace with it, though.

[Desi_Mama]

@juilletmercredi:

I by and large agree with what you say and my plan is to not take up the deferral. I want to keep my options open, but will very likely keep apply again this December.

 

However, there are some points on which I hold different opinions, and I'll put them here for anyone who stumbles across this post in the future. IMO, deferral is not a commitment to attend next year, but is akin to asking for additional time to decide. Let me point out that there seem to be two different types of deferrals. The terms the university used were: "deferring enrollment" and "deferring admission".

 

I believe "deferring enrollment" means that you accept the universities offer and funding package, but will enroll at the university 1 year later. I believe this was what you referred to in your post. However, from what I gathered in this forum and elsewhere, this is very rarely given to a student. This is precisely for the reasons you mentioned - student in most cases is not sure if he/she can attend next year, and the program is not sure about the funding situation next year.

In most cases, what is granted is deferred admission which is basically a guaranteed admission. You need not re-apply next year, and the admission is guaranteed. However, funding package is not guaranteed (likely, but not guaranteed). This was what happened with me. I don't think this is a commitment to attend next year at all, since the program did not even ask me to give anything in writing. Basically, my admission is guaranteed, and my application will be rolled over for funding assignment around Jan/Feb (I have to compete with Fall 2016 applicants). I was told that I will get an acceptance letter with funding package (if allotted) sometime before April of 2016, and I can accept it at that time.

 

In the above scenario, I think the student has every right to apply to more programs. Firstly because funding is not guaranteed. Secondly, the student never agrees to attend the university in the first place - even the university wants me to accept only around April. Note that this gives an out option to the university too - if I don't compare well with Fall 2016 applicants, they are not obligated to give me funding, which is basically a rejection.

 

Just to reiterate, I will be declining the offer. However, I don't agree that one can defer only if he is willing to commit to the program. This is on a case by case basis between student and the program. In most cases I have seen, the university doesn't commit to funding before they see the next batch of applicants (I agree that this is due to bureaucracy associated with funding allotment process, but it doesn't take away my point). In such cases, its perfectly reasonable and shrewd to apply to more programs. Even if they guarantee funding, grad programs give time till April of next year to decide - to attend, not to attend, where to attend. Also, I don't agree that deferring takes away a spot. If someone decides to attend another university, they will let the first program know before April, so the spot will go to someone else. So, I don't really think there is any "ethics" involved here as some people think. In reality, when you ask for deferral, there is no commitment - neither from the student side to attend, nor from the program side to fund you.

 

However, I agree that it doesn't make much sense to defer an offer unless you really like the program. I am not too fond of the program, and hence my reason for not deferring. There is no moral or ethical conflict at all.

[TakeruK]

I think ultimately, your decision results in no moral or ethical conflict, but from the train of thought in this thread, it does seem you were very close to the boundary. 

 

You are using terms such as "deferred enrollment" and "deferred admission" as if they are standard things at all programs. They are not. Your interpretation and description may be accurate for your particular program, but in general, deferring graduate school admission offers is a commitment to attend. In your particular case, it is not, because they are basically saying "we don't want to evaluate students multiple times, so if you want to attend in a later year, we know you have the qualifications, but we don't know if you're competitive for funding." There is another program in my school that does the same thing--they say all admission offers are valid for 1 year but funding must be accepted by April 15 of that application year. For this program, a student may accept an offer at another school, decide they don't like the other school, and attend my school the year after (as long as they inform my school soon enough so that they can make a decision on funding).

 

So I agree with you that in your particular case, you do reserve the right to not commit. But I want to caution you that this is not generally the norm and when you apply to Fall 2016, you shouldn't expect other schools to have the same ideas on deferment. I also want to caution others reading this thread that deferments don't always work this way.

[Desi_Mama]

I completely agree with you that things should be sorted out on a case-to-case basis. I just wrote the previous post to articulate my experiences if someone else stumbles across this thread in the future.

 

My objective was to simply point out that there is a world of a difference between the two scenarios: deferral with guaranteed funding and deferral without guarantee of funding - whatever be the terms different programs use. (I gave one example that I know) In the first case, its quite likely that the student should make a strong commitment and everything that follows from that commitment. In the second case however, I don't think there is any commitment involved.

 

I don't agree that a student should commit to a program, while the program does not commit to funding. When the program does guarantee funding (likely only after reviewing next batch of applications), the student can make the choice. But till that commitment comes from the program, it is unreasonable for the program to expect that the student should not take any other initiative (i.e. apply to other programs or scholarships).

I just wanted to point out this distinction. But I agree with everything else you said. In particular:

1. Deferring offer just for sake of a safety school is wrong.
2. Deferring multiple offers is wrong (unless of course both programs don't commit to funding, which basically reduces to my argument in this post).

Edited June 29, 2015 by Desi_Mama