Chances and Comparisons?

[fullofpink]

Hi everyone, I know that I am one of the many who dishes out tons of advice but I would like to ask everyone their opinion. Rarely do we ever really talk about our experiences in undergrad programs which enable us to get into grad programs. I'm going to explain the things on my resume that I believe are key credentials for me to get into a good grad program, and I'm going to list off some things that I fear my falter my chances. Hopefully by comparing them with other people's experiences I can get a better grasp of the reality of acceptance.

The good:

• I have won a $2000 school grant which enabled me to do original research. With this research I:
  
  • -self-published a catalog (desposited in a few repositories, including my school library's special collections)
    
    • -speaking at (2) symposiums (one is a grad student symposium for my department, another will be an undergraduate research symposium/conference).
      
      • -co-authored an article with my professor (my name being first in credit)
        
        
        • I also won a second research grant enabling me to attend the AAM conference last May and write a paper discussing the potential of preparing for a career post-graduation
          
          
          • Am applying to speak at my state museum's annual college symposium (it's a competition)
            
            
            • I have been interning under the curator of a very prominent collection for nearly a year. One of my major projects involved researching EVERY object (over 100) for an entire gallery and writing labels for them. (This project took the entire summer).
              
              
              • My writing sample is an honors thesis on a painting that has been in private collections since its creation and recently acquired by the museum I intern at; therefore, no scholarly research has been done on this painting whatsoever. This paper is 100% research solely done by me.
                
                
                • I have a TA position/scholarship for 2009/2010.
                  
                  
                  • I was the recipient of the Dean's Scholarship for my department. There are only 10 awarded for the entire school.

                I am also the student adviser for the Student Advisory Task Force for my department. (Basically, I go to the deans and we chat about what needs to be done)

                I have taken 2 graduate seminars (600 and 700 level) and did well in both.

                I am a member of AAM and CAA.

                I have a 3.7/4.0 overall GPA. 3.8/4.0 in my major (funny enough, all my B's in my classes have been exams with multiple choice answers on exams). 4.0/4.0 for my anthropology minor, and 3.7 for my German minor.

                My LORs will be from the prominent curator, my department's DGS and my professor who I worked with on the school's 2k grant. I expect fabulous LORs.

                The bad:

                I have 3 W's on my transcript. 2 are excusable. The first was the professor who taught the class had stomach tumors. He missed the majority of classes before the mid-term and since this was a class I needed to actually learn things in I decided to retake it with a different professor. Unfortunately, this professor died from his infliction.

                The second was a class in my major, but I was diagnosed with a neurological condition that made taking this class (it was my third 3 hour class on one day) impossible.

                I have a neurological condition that has the potential to affect school. I have stipulations about revealing the fact that I have this condition in my SOP or even discussing it before acceptance anywhere since it may mean that schools may not want to take me. While I have controlled this condition with medication, the mere name of this affliction may bring about negative connotations and pessimistic expectations, despite how much work (see above "the good") I have accomplished while having it.

                I did really really really really really poorly on my GREs. I score a 460V and a 500Q and a 3.5W. There is a reason for this. The reason is the internship and my grant which required me to put so much time and effort into those activities that when I was done at the end of the day I just couldn't bear to study for that stupid exam. Other than not having the time to study, I also did the "normal" GRE. Next time I will take the Special Accommodations GRE which will hopefully not fluster me so much. I will be taking it again, but it will have to be when I have had time to do it....

                In fact, combined with school, homework, internships and a part time job, I constantly contribute about 60-70 hours a week since my sophomore year (I am in my fifth year now). Because of this time schedule (plus the fact that I am even busier lately) I have to apply to grad school next fall because I just do not have the time to do it this semester.

                ------

                Information:

                I will be applying mostly to PhD programs. I am most interested in NYU IFA and Harvard. I have considered Yale, Northwestern, Columbia, and UC Berkeley. I feel like my research interests most align with the professors at NYUIFA and Harvard. I really want to be a curator so I am interested in schools with a curatorial track or certificate and ones that have direct affiliations with major museums, for this reason NYU IFA is my first choice, while I will be applying to Virginia Commonwealth University's Curatorial program, and Courtauld (MA).

                I would like to know where everyone else stands in comparison to their undergrad careers? Did you have more or the less the same experiences I have (meaning "the good")? Do you think that "the bad" is really going to weigh me down? I think my grades are fine, but I know I am a horrible standardized test taker and I really have had no time to study.

                I appreciate everyone's advice/opinions/shared experiences/comments in advance. Thanks!

[artsytartsy]

I'm not on an admissions committee so I can't give you any odds. My gut instinct tells me that your resume looks really good. I don't know the legalities involved, but I wouldn't mention your medical condition unless you have to. It's none of the ad comm's business and your record shows that you are more than capable of overcoming this obstacle. Based on everything I've read, I wouldn't worry too much about your GRE. A LOT of people don't do well on standardized tests and most schools know that it's not a reliable reflection on your abilities as an academic.

We're in the same boat because I have NO idea what my chances are either. I have a low-ish GPA from a highly ranked school with straight A's in art history, an MSc in art history from the University of Edinburgh, and a fairly high GRE. After reading about the expectations at different schools, I believe that these application aspects matter a bit, but the SOP, the LOR's, any existing research projects and/or your research interests will mean the most to any university.

That's probably not the specific answer you wanted, but I thought I'd at least give you a response

[fullofpink]

Actually this is the type of answer I was hoping for. I really have no idea who applies or what their backgrounds are, it is nice to see what is going on.

I've been on the fence about the condition because eventually I will have to tell someone, but I think I am going to wait until I'm actually accepted anywhere. lol.

Btw, why is art history an Msc?

[artsytartsy]

"It's tradition!" At least, that's what I was told when I asked why the art history masters was an MSc. None of the profs know either, lol.

[fullofpink]

hahaha. of course!

[MetisUlysses]

I just thought I'd resurrect this topic to present a new scenario that I haven't seen brought up very much. Appropriately, I will start with the

Cons:

-I was an art history minor and my grades in the subject included 2 As (Baroque and Japanese Art) and 4 A-s (Intro course, Renaissance, Impressionism and Architecture)

-Those six courses and a 6-week stint on my school museum's photography acquisition committee are literally the extent of my art history experience to date

-I have written just about 100 pages total of art historical analysis and no thesis

My apologia: I majored in Economics and went the Investment Banking track, though art history was always my dream subject. Without going into to too much detail, I figured that art history made a great hobby/passion while banking makes a great job. I've figured out now that banking is actually a horrible job and I'd much rather become a professor or curator, just as I always expected. In the any case, I figured that banking would be a great way to save up some money for grad school if and when I decided to go down that path.

Pros:

-I have a good GPA (3.81) from an Ivy

-My first GRE results were in the 1450 range, though I'm hoping to get 1500+ the next time

-I have two professors who I think will give me good recommendations

I'm not sure how well my passion for the subject will translate given that I haven't the internships or research experience to back this up. Obviously, I don't expect to get into a Ph.D. program immediately, but I'm wondering if I even have a reasonable shot at a good Masters programs. I want to make a career out of this (i.e., becoming a curator at a large museum or becoming a Professor at a good school) and people have been telling me that going to a top-5 or top-10 school is by far the only way to reasonably ensure this outcome. I'm guessing that going to a great M.A. program makes it a lot easier to get into a good Ph.D. program. Just about every poster has had a strong, highly focused background in college (unlike me) and I suppose my ultimate question is this: is an art history pedigree in your undergraduate career important enough that I shouldn't really expect any success at a top-5 M.A. program?

[mitzydoodle]

Hi MetisUlysses,

Congrats on making the decision to switch to the art history track. While I have no idea how likely it would be for you to get into a top 5 MA program, I am sure there is an MA program that you can find. While a top 5 MA certainly doesn't hurt a PhD application, I wouldn't say it is necessary for getting into a top 5-10 PhD program. Find a program that you think is a good fit, hopefully has some funding, and allows you to start making connections in the field. While in the MA, do your absolute best (of course) and consciously keep an eye on your CV so that you can flesh out all areas.

Best of luck to you.

[artschoolhopeful]

I just thought I'd resurrect this topic to present a new scenario that I haven't seen brought up very much. Appropriately, I will start with the

Cons:

-I was an art history minor and my grades in the subject included 2 As (Baroque and Japanese Art) and 4 A-s (Intro course, Renaissance, Impressionism and Architecture)

-Those six courses and a 6-week stint on my school museum's photography acquisition committee are literally the extent of my art history experience to date

-I have written just about 100 pages total of art historical analysis and no thesis

My apologia: I majored in Economics and went the Investment Banking track, though art history was always my dream subject. Without going into to too much detail, I figured that art history made a great hobby/passion while banking makes a great job. I've figured out now that banking is actually a horrible job and I'd much rather become a professor or curator, just as I always expected. In the any case, I figured that banking would be a great way to save up some money for grad school if and when I decided to go down that path.

Pros:

-I have a good GPA (3.81) from an Ivy

-My first GRE results were in the 1450 range, though I'm hoping to get 1500+ the next time

-I have two professors who I think will give me good recommendations

I'm not sure how well my passion for the subject will translate given that I haven't the internships or research experience to back this up. Obviously, I don't expect to get into a Ph.D. program immediately, but I'm wondering if I even have a reasonable shot at a good Masters programs. I want to make a career out of this (i.e., becoming a curator at a large museum or becoming a Professor at a good school) and people have been telling me that going to a top-5 or top-10 school is by far the only way to reasonably ensure this outcome. I'm guessing that going to a great M.A. program makes it a lot easier to get into a good Ph.D. program. Just about every poster has had a strong, highly focused background in college (unlike me) and I suppose my ultimate question is this: is an art history pedigree in your undergraduate career important enough that I shouldn't really expect any success at a top-5 M.A. program?

I have a couple of friends that have done the econ/ibanking/consulting route, some of whom love it and some of whom feel trapped (I also graduated from an Ivy that was very, very internship oriented). I admire that you have decided to pursue your passions. Please understand that it is EXTREMELY difficult to become a "curator at a large museum" or "becoming a Professor at a good school." That being said, it seems that very few PhDs are unemployed, so I believe you could look forward to a fruitful life with an art history degree regardless. Please read these articles:

http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-in-the-Huma/44846/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A15182-2002Jul16

OKAY, now that I'm done being responsible and holding up my big "GO BACK" sign, welcome to the club! Here is my advice to you.

To Build Up Credentials:

1. Work on languages. Do you have already have proficiency in any languages? This is very important for art history graduate school applications. Which languages you SHOULD work on depend on what period/area you want to study. GENERALLY SPEAKING, proficiency in German and French is important for art history. If you do not know either German or French, I would suggest you work on German as more people know French.

2. Start taking art history classes. Most universities have continuing education classes--Columbia included. I know banker schedules are extremely hectic and making time to take these classes will be nearly impossible, but if you could enroll in one or two art history classes, it would be extremely beneficial for you to add to your transcripts and for you to further demonstrate interest in the subject.

3. If you cannot take classes, read. And read some more. If you DO NOT have an inclination towards any particular period, I would highly recommend you stay away from modern/contemporary Western art because it is already quite saturated. If you are proficient in other languages, it's good to work around that (i.e. latin/medieval art, Chinese/Chinese art, etc).

4. Have you thought about trying to get a job or an internship in a museum--not a curatorial department, but in development or finance division? A foot in the door is always helpful.

During the application process:

1. Buy this book:

Graduate Admissions Essays: Write Your Way into the Graduate School of Your Choice--Donald Asher

I did not use this book for this round of applications and I regret not having made the purchase.

2. Contact advisors. I believe for masters programs it is not important to establish a main advisor or what not, but this is where number 3 from the former list is important. Demonstrate you have a breadth of knowledge that you acquired independent of your academic background to professors in the programs that you are interested in early on.

3. WRITING SAMPLE! Your writing sample will be a very, very important way to evaluate you. This is why it is important to read. A lot. So make sure you write a kick-ass writing sample and get as much feedback and advice as possible while writing it.

I really do not know much about masters programs--I only applied to one because the only professor who works in my sub-field happens to be there and they only have a terminal masters. This is my advice for beefing up your art history resume and graduate application in general.

[veneziana]

"I have two professors who I think will give me good recommendations"

First, it takes three letters, not two (and employer letters do not count for much). More importantly "good" recs are not enough. How long has it been since you graduated? Will the professors remember you? Did you take several classes w/them or just one? Are they profs in the Art History department or in Econ? Can they write more than "student X took my class and rec'd an A-" The ability to get three strong letters from Art History profs. will be key to your success at a top notch MA school (i.e., Williams).

[jmb04]

First, it takes three letters, not two (and employer letters do not count for much). More importantly "good" recs are not enough. How long has it been since you graduated? Will the professors remember you? Did you take several classes w/them or just one? Are they profs in the Art History department or in Econ? Can they write more than "student X took my class and rec'd an A-" The ability to get three strong letters from Art History profs. will be key to your success at a top notch MA school (i.e., Williams).

Hi MetisUlysses -

As I was away from art history for about five years doing something totally unrelated, I can perhaps relate to you. (Unlike you, though, I did major in art history and have a solid foundation in coursework). However, I can give a little bit of advice when it comes to getting letters of recommendation from people who you may not have spoken to in years. I found that they all remembered me pretty well, but to refresh their memory and to give them good materials for a solid letter, I gave all of them a "packet" of information:

1) A copy of my transcripts

2) My CV/Resume

3) Things I wrote for their classes (research papers, midterms, even short writing assignments)

4) A list of all the programs, professors, and deadlines

5) An outline of my statement of purpose (or a written one if you already have it)

I also met with each of them individually to go over everything I gave them, and to talk about interests, goals and what I've been up to since I graduated. Being a non-traditional student does have its positives. You can show an intangible quality that cannot necessarily be seen in your transcripts: maturity. When you speak to them, be ready to tell them your intended focus and specific interests. If you've been away for a while, maturity and focus can certainly help.

Side note: it is true that modern/contemporary is saturated. However, do not choose something obscure or of a lesser personal interest for the sake of originality or better chances of acceptance. Remember that you will engage with this material for years to come (esp. if you want to end up a curator or professor!), so passion for the subject would be very helpful. Just be true to yourself.

As a previous poster noted, continuing education is also not a bad idea. You can re-orient yourself with student life and familiarize yourself with current discourse, and perhaps secure a third recommendation letter from a professor in the field.

Good luck to you!