Transferring

[nns91]

Hey guys,

 

I am wondering if you all know if transferring from one school to another is acceptable during your PhD ? I am considering moving to be with my significant other. However, are personal reasons legitimate ones?. I have been doing well in my PhD program and such so I am not moving because I can't survive. In addition, I was accepted at the school she is at when I applied but decided not to attend due to various reasons. There are a good amount of people I can work with at that school so I am intellectually interested as well.

 

Thanks for your input!

[ilovelab]

Hey guys,

 

I am wondering if you all know if transferring from one school to another is acceptable during your PhD ? I am considering moving to be with my significant other. However, are personal reasons legitimate ones?. I have been doing well in my PhD program and such so I am not moving because I can't survive. In addition, I was accepted at the school she is at when I applied but decided not to attend due to various reasons. There are a good amount of people I can work with at that school so I am intellectually interested as well.

 

Thanks for your input!

I think it depends on the program. Most likely they don't take transfers unless your PI is joining the new school/department. You most likely will have to find a PI who is willing ot take you, I doubt they would let you rotate again.

[nns91]

I did email them and they said they do consider transfers as long as it is appropriate. In other words, I just need to have my PI and program director to write a letter supporting my application. 

[ilovelab]

I did email them and they said they do consider transfers as long as it is appropriate. In other words, I just need to have my PI and program director to write a letter supporting my application. 

Would you start as a 1st year again? That's the big question. Will they let you rotate again on the programs dime or are you going to have to find a lab as soon as your start?

[nns91]

According to their procedure, I will be applying during my 2nd year (following the regular application cycle) so that if I get in and transfer I will have already finished my prelim here. Therefore, I feel like I will probably be doing short rotations and start soon after I come ?

[ballwera]

Could you just master out of the program you are in now and apply normally?

[nns91]

Isn't it technically what I will be doing? Since if I do leave, it will happen after prelim anyway. 

[ilovelab]

Isn't it technically what I will be doing? Since if I do leave, it will happen after prelim anyway. 

No, your're not "mastering out". What the other poster means is getting a terminal masters degree and then applying to new programs. Essentially staring from scratch, but you have your masters from your previous institution. You would be "transferring" so you wouldn't get a degree form PENN. Also, double check as to whether you will have to do prelims/orals again. It depends on the program you are applying to. Some schools may have you re-take the prelims/orals.

[nns91]

I see your point. Do I then have to wait for a year ? Will it be too fishy to apply from scratch during my 2nd year of my current program and then master out ?

[nns91]

In the end, do you think personal reason as mine is legitimate for switching programs (either starting from scratch or transferring)?

[rising_star]

I mean, I personally wouldn't move (change graduate schools) to be with a significant other. You have to think long-term. How likely is it that you and your SO will end up in the same place post-PhD? Are there advantages (connections, placement, publication opportunities, grants, etc.) to staying at your current institution that will better your career? I mean, there must be a reason you chose your current school over your significant other's school initially so, what were those reasons? Throughout graduate school, I always put my career first, even if that meant moving away from my significant other to pursue my degree. I have some regrets but those are minimal because, in the end, I knew what I wanted for my career and knew that I'd be unhappy in the long run if I didn't pursue my dreams.

[TakeruK]

I think there is a difference between "Do you [TheGradCafe community] think personal reasons are a good reason to transfer?" and "Will the new school accept this reason as a legitimate reason to transfer?"

 

I don't have an answer for you for the first question because it's a personal decision. I think rising_star makes some very good points. I will offer one counter-point though: "How likely is it that you and your SO will end up in the same place post-PhD?" is as good a reason for moving to be with your SO as it is for not moving. You can flip it around and think about it as: I'm going to have to make this decision again when my SO and I are finishing our PhDs. If I am going to prioritize being with my SO over my career later anyways, then why not just make the decision now?

 

But the exact amount you want to prioritize your personal life vs. your career is a personal decision only you can make. We can offer our opinions, but I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" answer here. 

 

As for the second question, I do think schools will accept your personal reason as a legitimate reason to switch programs. The real question is whether they will consider transfers at all. Luckily for you, they have already told you that they will consider transfers as long as it is appropriate.

 

If you are interested in the transfer, you should ask them for further details on what it would mean. Do you get to skip rotations and just join a lab? Will you skip prelims but still do rotations? Will you do a shorter rotation? Will you be starting all over? Will any of your courses at your old school count towards the degree at your new school? Do you have to apply all over again? Sure, we can speculate here, but this is easy to get by simply asking your SO's school. 

 

In addition, you have the fact that the other school did accept you so they already assessed you. Some schools will actually allow you to act on your acceptance up to a year after the offer was made. A physics program at my school will allow this, even if you declined them and even if you attended another school for a year. So find out the details.

 

Once you know all the details and terms of the "transfer", you can then decide what you want to do. Are the imposed conditions worth it? You can then decide how you want to wrap up your time at your current school (not sure if you already finished 1st year or you are about to start school this fall). If you are able to just join the new school without having to submit a new application then it will make your life easier. As soon as you have decided that you will want to leave your current school, you should tell your department and form an exit plan. This might be tricky if you have to reapply to the "transfer" school because you will need support from your current school's faculty.

 

If the transfer is not happening until Fall 2016, then there is also an issue of what happens to you and your funding for the 2015-2016 year. You may no longer be funded since you are not in a PhD program. But it is also unethical, in my opinion, to pretend to want to be in the PhD program and take their funding when you are already making arrangements with the other school for the transfer. Your current program may be willing to support you as you finish your Masters at your current school. If they take away your funding though, while it's not ideal, it's not really the end of the world if you have the transfer already set up/confirmed, since it would probably mean a year off.

 

The tricky situation you want to avoid is when you are not yet confirmed a position in the new program (or if you have to actually apply) and you have not yet but should be telling your current program that you plan to leave. If you are faced with this situation, my advice would be to take a moment to decide if you are willing to give up your current program for a chance at the new program. Once you tell your current program that you want to leave, there is no going back (well, maybe this is a slight exaggeration). 

[nns91]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks so much for the detailed answers!!!

 

First of all, I agree it's gonna be a personal decision for me. I guess I did not mean to ask for opinion on whether it is a good decision for me. I actually meant to ask about the "objective legitimacy" of the option/reason. I know that many people at this stage of their career will value their careers above personal life. However, I am a bit different. It's not that I don't value my career. I am still pursuing my dream of getting a PhD, just at a different place where I can be with my SO. Therefore, I am not seeing it as me giving up on my career. Plus, I am planning on transferring to another respectable institution in the biomedical field as well so it should not be too bad in terms of opportunities (of course, the specific opportunities/connections won't be the same).

 

Second of all, I know that I have to figure out the details and such. All I know for now is that I have to apply and be reconsidered again with the new applicants. They will "not" take into consideration that I have already been accepted and chose not to come. Also, I DO need support from my PIs here at my current school. This is the part I worry about most. I am not trying to burn bridges here. I just hope that they will somehow understand it's totally a personal decision and nothing against the labs/the school ??? Is it reasonable for a person to make decisions based on his/her personal life? I just hope graduate students are allowed to have a personal life??? Or it is totally prohibited/shun upon ?

 

You bring up a good point about funding. I am now entering my 2nd year so I am still supported by the school. My hope was to continue through the 2nd year and apply at the same time. I actually have not thought about whether funding will be taken away. How should I find out about this ??? 

[TakeruK]

First of all, I agree it's gonna be a personal decision for me. I guess I did not mean to ask for opinion on whether it is a good decision for me. I actually meant to ask about the "objective legitimacy" of the option/reason. I know that many people at this stage of their career will value their careers above personal life. However, I am a bit different. It's not that I don't value my career. I am still pursuing my dream of getting a PhD, just at a different place where I can be with my SO. Therefore, I am not seeing it as me giving up on my career. Plus, I am planning on transferring to another respectable institution in the biomedical field as well so it should not be too bad in terms of opportunities (of course, the specific opportunities/connections won't be the same).

 

I definitely understand how you feel!

 

Second of all, I know that I have to figure out the details and such. All I know for now is that I have to apply and be reconsidered again with the new applicants. They will "not" take into consideration that I have already been accepted and chose not to come. Also, I DO need support from my PIs here at my current school. This is the part I worry about most. I am not trying to burn bridges here. I just hope that they will somehow understand it's totally a personal decision and nothing against the labs/the school ??? Is it reasonable for a person to make decisions based on his/her personal life? I just hope graduate students are allowed to have a personal life??? Or it is totally prohibited/shun upon ?

 

You bring up a good point about funding. I am now entering my 2nd year so I am still supported by the school. My hope was to continue through the 2nd year and apply at the same time. I actually have not thought about whether funding will be taken away. How should I find out about this ??? 

 

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying Whether or not a professor or a department will understand it's a personal decision will completely depend on the person. I've heard of one extreme where the professor will think you are a useless scientist for even considering anything else beyond being the best scientist you can be. But other professors are the opposite. During my first thesis advisory committee, one of the committee members asked me something like "Where would you want to postdoc (ideally)?" and I was caught a little off guard and just gave a vague answer. But afterwards, my supervisor and I had a talk where I told them the truth: I do have a good idea of the places I'd apply to but I plan to limit myself geographically for various personal reasons. And also that I didn't give the full answer to the committee because I was unsure how they would react to the "geographical limits" part. My supervisor was supportive and understanding and said that they also went about their own job applications the same way. 

 

In this case, I think the first step is for you to find out what your PI and your department's likely response would be. Maybe you can ask around with the people that you trust first (maybe postdocs or grad students in the group? anyone else who has been around long enough to maybe see it happen before). At my school, both the graduate student association/government and the Graduate Office would be a good office to go to for support navigating issues like this. They can help you figure out what reactions might be like (if they are familiar with your faculty) and they can also help you figure out the policies and regulations behind funding (e.g. in some cases, once they assign you as a TA, you and the University have a contract and they can't take away that part of the funding etc.).

 

In my opinion, there is still some time, so you can start slowly and find out what resources will be on your side. For example, at some schools, maybe the Graduate Office (i.e. the Dean) might not be a good place to go. But, just to throw out a timeline, it might be a good idea for your PI to know around the start of the next academic year that you don't plan to continue. So you have about a month ish to determine the best way to let people know? Don't leave it until the last minute since the news may be a shock/surprise and ideally, you would want to have moved past that and worked out a good exit plan that is agreeable for both parties before you ask them to write you a LOR!

 

If your research tells you that your PI's reaction will not be a good one then it might be a good idea to find a faculty that will support you prior to talking to your PI about this. 

 

It might also be a good idea to plan for/consider some worst-case scenarios. What if all of your funding will be removed? Will you be willing to stay and pay your way through the second year to get a Masters (and will they even let you?). What if your PI will not support you in the move? What if you break ties with your current school and then do not get admitted into the new school?