Advice for possible PhD or MA phil. applicant?

[Goodboy244]

Hi all. I'm considering applying for either a PhD program, or Masters program in Philosophy, but I'm wondering both my chances, suggestions for schools, and generally about the application process.

 

I have a Bachelors of Arts (double majoring in Philosophy and Political Science) from 2013 from a good, but not recognizable undergrad. My overall UGPA was 3.94, and my Philosophy departmental GPA was 3.9+ (I can't recall exactly), summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa, etc. I received the school's Philosophy Department Award, given to the top Philosophy student over the 4 years there, so I do believe my performance within my philosophy courses was very good. I have one publication in the field of Christian Feminist Theology (random, I know), which I pursued after receiving a small research grant from my school to continue the paper from a class, after my graduation. It was published in a student-only essays contest-type Journal, so I do not value the placement of the article too highly, and I would not be submitting it as a writing sample. Reflecting back on it now, I actually do not think its my best writing at all. My writing ability has certainly matured since then, and I feel it shows. During undergrad, I was president of some small student orgs., but nothing philosophy focused. 

 

I then went straight from undergrad directly to law school, and received a Juris Doctor from a good, but again not stellar Law School, and am currently a practicing attorney. I miss the study of philosophy and now wish to return to the academic pursuit, and possibly leave the practice of law (I'm a recent lawyer and have only been practicing for about 2 years).

 

Between law school and work, I've published two articles in legal journals discussing immigration law, policy, and normative thinking on the treatment of aliens and the role of restrictionist versus open border policies. These are academic, scholarly journal placements. They are more thought pieces, are more "legal", so I suppose they can fall within Philosophy of Law or the blurry line of Ethics and Morality. Despite majoring in Philosophy, I do not have a paper or sample that I feel confidentially displays my knowledge of philosophy. All my publications have been in outside fields, and I'm not especially happy submitting any as samples, but I suppose I can provide a subsection of a particular piece that shows my analysis skills. I just feel daunted working on a new paper, when I have been "out of philosophy" for 5 years (3 yrs law school; 2 yrs working).

 

During law school, I served as Teaching Assistants for two professors, one of whom will definitely provide a strong REC letter b/c my paper for the class became one of the publications. I can get a second REC letter from a Phil. undergrad professor, though I'm not sure how memorable I would be 5 years out to be honest. The professor I worked with for the Feminist paper could also provide a REC letter, I suppose. I do expect REC letters to be positive, probably very good, but nothing amazing. Again, I feel its the years in practice and time out of school. 

 

Are there schools that do not require the GREs or have them as optional? Since I'm working, it would be a hard for me to dedicate study time, and I'd be more inclined to apply to schools without the test scores requirement. Thanks for any and all advice you can provide! I am particularly interested in Continental Philosophy, rather than Analytical so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated for schools that may fit my interests. I know I don't want to focus on Ancient Phil., but do enjoy Aesthetics, Epistemology, Metaphysics, and generally the German/ French philosophers, such as Kant, Heidegger, Hegel, Camus, Kierkegaard, Derrida, etc. Where would you apply, and how many schools do people apply to?

[OriginalDuck]

I have a somewhat similar background to you (B.A. w/ honors, PBK, etc.; J.D. w/ honors from good but not T14 school), though my field is political science, not philosophy. I can't give you field-specific advice, but it seems like you should be competitive. I was able to get into some programs and I didn't have the TA experience and publications you did.

 

There are programs that don't require the GRE (http://ainsleydiduca.com/grad-schools-dont-require-gre/), but I'd go ahead and take it rather than limit the schools you apply to. I didn't have a huge amount of time to study for it either, but it turned out fine. The analytical skills you learn in law school should help you with the AWA, and in my experience you can get a handle on the other sections even if it's been a few years since you've done any math. I just got a Kaplan book that gave access to online practice tests, set aside 30 minutes a day to read it/do practice questions, and did a practice test once a week for a couple of weeks before the test. That may be tough to do as a practicing attorney, but it's worth it in my opinion.

[Goodboy244]

That is excellent advice OriginalDuck! I hear you. I know I should be truly considering the GRE, but I just feel that since I didn't fare too well on the LSAT, standardized tests aren't my thing and this would be the same. Would you, or other readers, suggest applying to a mix of PhD and Masters programs? If my goal is to end up teaching and getting a faculty job (I know it's intensely competitive), is it even worth it to apply to masters?, if I'll need a PhD anyway? I feel that applying to masters programs may be unreasonable if I've already dedicated 3 yrs to a JD, when I know I'll want to teach anyway and should be trying to get into a PhD program. But at the same time, I'm so scared at how competitive these programs really are. 

 

Also, how important is a writing sample that is philosophy-focused? As much as I'd love to give a sample wrestling with a particular philosopher, just given my work duties and time constraints, would sending them a section of one of my legal journal pieces really hurt me? I know a philosophy-centered piece, given it is a program in philosophy, is advisable, but would sending a writing sample that simply shows analytical skills and argumentation be okay, even if it is off-topic? 

[philstudent1991]

Oregon, Depaul, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stony Brook, Fordham...these are good continental schools. I think you'll have to take the GRE. I'm not aware of any reputable schools that do not require it. MIT didn't, but I think even they do now. Your background is probably a credential in your favor, though some might question that you really know what you're getting yourself into. Why not apply though! 

[OriginalDuck]

I wouldn't apply for any master's programs. Like you said, having already done four years of undergrad and three years of law school, with 4-5+ left for a PhD, why add on another two for a master's? Not to mention the cost of the degree, especially if your law school debt is anything like the typical law grad. 

 

I was kind of in the same boat last summer. I was worried about the competitiveness of PhD admissions, but I knew that was my goal, so I only applied for PhD programs. I was very fortunate to get into good programs. For whatever my opinion's worth, I think you should be able to get some acceptances with your profile.

 

On the writing sample, I had a similar dilemma. I felt that my writing and analysis had improved greatly in law school, but none of my legal writing was exactly academic political science work. So, I could use ostensibly better and more recent off-topic writing, older political science work that was probably not as well written, or write something new from scratch. I eventually decided to use one of my old political science term papers, and it worked for me, so that's something you may or may not want to consider.

 

The biggest advice I think I could give anyone about to apply to grad school is to mention the professors you want to work with in your SOP. I knew who I'd want to work with at the schools I applied to, and articulated my research interests in all my SOPs to help show fit, but I only mentioned what professors I wanted to work with in the SOP for schools whose application prompted the inclusion of that information. I got into every school where I talked about who I wanted to work with, and none of the schools that I didn't. There is some varying advice on this issue out there () (), but there's my two cents, admittedly shaped largely by one personal experience.

 

Unfortunately, I can't give you any philosophy-specific advice, and of course your experience could be different than mine. 

[knp]

FWIW, I found the GRE way easier than the LSAT. When you compare the reading comprehension sections, I found that the GRE's version was slightly but distinctly easier than the LSAT's. And personally, I thought that the critical reading LSAT sections were murder in a way that nothing on the GRE approaches.

[maxhgns]

 

 

Also, how important is a writing sample that is philosophy-focused? As much as I'd love to give a sample wrestling with a particular philosopher, just given my work duties and time constraints, would sending them a section of one of my legal journal pieces really hurt me? I know a philosophy-centered piece, given it is a program in philosophy, is advisable, but would sending a writing sample that simply shows analytical skills and argumentation be okay, even if it is off-topic? 

 

I think it would sink you, for the most part. Your writing sample should really be on some sort of philosophical topic (not necessarily a historical figure). Perhaps you can convert one of your legal papers into something that fits better with philosophy of law or applied ethics?

 

 

It's common to apply to about 15 on average, from what I've seen. If I were re-doing things, I'd apply to no less than 10 (I applied to 5). MIT and Hopkins do not require the GRE (or did not; maybe that's changed), but aren't really a great fit for continental philosophy. Canadian schools can't require it of Canadian applicants, but sometimes do of American applicants (McGill and Toronto definitely do; not sure about others). When you say you're into aesthetics, epistemology, and metaphysics... do you mean their continental counterparts? I ask, because they're pretty different from their analytic counterparts, and that would probably affect the schools most appropriate for you.

[Goodboy244]

Thanks Maxhgns! especially for the school suggestions. Though I do think that MIT's phD changed its position and now requires the GRE when it formerly did not. I also learned that Cornell University and University of Wisconsin do not require the GRE either. As for aesthetics, epistemology, and metaphysics, I do mean their continental counterparts. It's not necessarily that I dislike analytic, (indeed, I would still want a well-rounded engagement in order to contribute intelligibly to the philosophical discussion), it's just that ultimately, I enjoy continental more. 15 sounds like an excellent number to apply to. I do think I'll try and adapt something into a more philosophical piece. After reading more admissions sections of school websites, so many ask for a philosophical writing sample.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Goodboy244

[xolo]

I'm not in your field but I just completed a cycle of applications. I switched fields so in that sense it is somewhat similar to your situation. I applied to a mix of programs and got admitted to about half of the programs I applied to. Since I didn't have an MA in Spanish I had to apply to some MA programs but fortunately got admitted to a school that only accepts PhD students. In my opinion the core of your apps are the LORs, WS, and SOP. These need to be excellent and the WS should show original research capability. 

 

The GRE is not part of the core app and I wouldn't worry about it too much. Why not just take it and see where you stand? 

[maxhgns]

 As for aesthetics, epistemology, and metaphysics, I do mean their continental counterparts. It's not necessarily that I dislike analytic, (indeed, I would still want a well-rounded engagement in order to contribute intelligibly to the philosophical discussion), it's just that ultimately, I enjoy continental more.

 

I have no clue at all about continental epistemology and metaphysics (I'm afraid I'm an analytic person these days!), but on aesthetics you might find the ASA's graduate guide a useful place to start your search (keep in mind that it's based on self-reports, so some departments are just BSing. Most of the continental-oriented departments there do quite a bit of other continental-y stuff, and some are fairly pluralistic).