Issue with LoR - graduated two years ago, academics already wrote references

[gem.]

Hello all,

 

I am an Australian who graduated from undergrad in 2013, planning to apply for International Affairs programs (SIPA, SFS, SAIS, Elliott). 

 

I have a huge issue I am hoping to get some guidance on.

 

In 2013 (before graduating) I applied for a full time job where I was required to submit two academic references - one from a professor at my Australian university and one from a professor at an American university I studied at for exchange. I have copies of both of these letters in pdf format.

 

I had thought I could re-submit these letters for masters applications but have read on this forum that the process involves a link being sent to your reference for them to manually complete.

 

I am just wondering: is there ANY way I could submit the 2013 references (both of which were very positive) without having to approach these professors again? It's been such a long time - the Australian one definitely will not remember who I am, and I feel burdensome approaching the other, whom I have not spoken to in two years.

 

My other question is, how many LoRs should be from academics? I have been working in Australian public policy for 1.5 years and have at least two professional managers who should be able to submit LoRs.

 

Worst case scenario, could I just approach the US professor to ask him to re-submit his reference in this new online format? Will I look incredibly rude not having spoken to him for two years then asking this? 

 

HELP! I was relying on being able to use these 2013 references I had already secured as I haven't studied in a while. This online link system really messes that plan up...

 

Thanks in advance.

[java0008]

i requested my supervisor and program director to submit my LORs for applications. As a reminder, i sent them my transcript and an updated CV to give them an idea about my work. I can speak for the US academicians that they understand the lag and will hold no resentment for not being in touch if u had no reason to!

 

PS. I applied to PhD programs 2 years after my MS

Edited July 23, 2015 by java0008

[TakeruK]

Unless your field/program is different, it is common for academics to expect that they will have to submit the LORs for you electronically each time you do it. They also expect to have to do this for you multiple times because generally, you will ask them to write LORs for grad schools, for grad school fellowships, and maybe even jobs after grad schools. Some of my LOR writers have submitted 3+ LORs for me, for different things that required them.

 

In addition, the admission committees will find it strange that your LOR is dated for 2013 when your application is for 2016. And the online link, in my field, often includes two forms: one for basic questions like "rank this student..." and another for the letter itself.

 

You should reach out to these academics now and let them know you are now planning to apply for grad schools this fall and if they are willing to write you a letter. Like java0008 suggested, when you do this, you should help them remember who you are by providing information such as your transcripts and a brief statement of your research interests/goals. You should also attach their old PDF since they might want to reuse a lot of their old letter (and it will remind them why they like you!)

[quirkycase]

When I was applying to MA programs, I had to reach out to two professors I hadn't had any contact with for three years.  I felt awkward about it, even though I knew many applicants who have been out of school for a few years like me have to do the same.  Like java0008 and TakeruK suggested, I reminded them of how we knew each other, gave a brief description of my interests and goals, and sent my CV and anything else I found relevant. Neither of them found it rude that I asked them; they both agreed to write a letter without hesitation. I know it might feel rude and uncomfortable, but I would say it's definitely better to have a recent letter than one dated a few years prior.

 

And usually, you want at least two of your letters to be from academics.

[gem.]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies!

 

I was definitely feeling uncomfortable with reaching out after so long but I'm hoping, especially with the US professor, it won't be an issue to request another LoR.

 

I got in touch with him a few days ago to give an update on what I'd been doing since he last wrote me a LoR (I'm also heading to the US on vacation and asked if he might want to catch up) and he responded really quickly. Once applications open for the programs I'll feel more comfortable asking if he would mind writing another LoR. My other academic reference might be more of an issue but I really like the idea of uploading the previous LoR and a statement of my goals and interests. Thanks for the tips!

 

Also, another quick question - is it usual for references in the US to not want to show you what they have written about you before submitting it? If so, why is this? I encountered this with my previous LoR from the American professor. I only ended up reading it because my workplace HR accidentally sent it to me.

[TakeruK]

Also, another quick question - is it usual for references in the US to not want to show you what they have written about you before submitting it? If so, why is this? I encountered this with my previous LoR from the American professor. I only ended up reading it because my workplace HR accidentally sent it to me.

 

In North America, academic LORs are supposed to be confidential assessments of the student. Professors will usually not want you to see what they write because it could hamper their ability to earnestly assess you. The admissions committees will also want to know that you did not see the letter, which means they know the professor was able to be frank with them in the LOR. In practice, I don't think people will actually write horrible reviews of a student (they would just decline to write the letter). But practical or not, this is the norm in North America.

 

This is why when you start applying to North American schools, along with the LOR writer information, you will be asked to check a box that will waive your FERPA rights to view this LOR. You are highly encouraged to waive these rights for the reasons stated above. It's basically an unwritten rule that you are expected to waive them. 

 

The way I see it, this waiver is meant to address an unintended side effect of a law meant to protect students. If you are not familiar with FERPA, it is an American law that protects your permanent student records at your school. It ensures that only you and those who "need to know" can access your record. It also grants you the right to view your student record at any time, upon request, so that bad people cannot put unfair evaluations or notes into your record (i.e. you have the right to know what's in your record). However, if the school files your LORs in your student record, then when you make such a request, you will be able to see your LORs. So, this waiver exists so that the school can still hide the LORs from you if you use your FERPA rights to view your records. 

 

Some important things to note:

 

1. When you waive the rights to use FERPA to view your LOR, you are not stating that you have not / will not view your LOR through other means. If your non-American LOR writers want to show you your letter or provide you with a copy, that's all okay and you should still check off the waiver box.

 

2. Not waiving your rights does not guarantee you access to the LOR either. If you are rejected from a school, they may destroy your application materials right away and since you did not enroll, you do not have a "student record" with them, and thus there is nothing for you to view. If you do enroll in a school, if they do not archive your LORs, then you won't be able to view them either.

 

3. Waiving your rights does not mean the school won't show you your LOR for other reasons either. All you are doing is waiving your FERPA-granted right to view LORs in your student record. 

 

So, to make sure you don't cause a misunderstanding, be sure to waive your rights to view your LORs when you apply to US schools

[gem.]

TakeruK, thank you for such a detailed response. I'll make sure to waive my rights to see it (will have to not let my curiousity get the better of me!  )

[TakeruK]

To be honest, I really rather not read what my LORs say! I think that if I did, I would overanalyze every sentence! I'd over-worry about the negatives and probably create other problems trying to compensate. And, I might get big-headed about the positive things written and not improve as much as I could. There were one or two fellowships that required LORs to be delivered in a sealed envelope and I felt so anxious even just holding onto the sealed envelope!

[gem.]

Ahhh yes, I do see your point. 

 

So is it acceptable that LoRs might contain 'negatives', even if only to show a student's improvements across time? My US LoR definitely had this.

[gem.]

An update - heard back from the professor. He said he wouldn't be able to write me a reference because he just started a new job and he doesn't have the time.... Pretty shocked and devastated considering he wrote such a positive letter in 2013 and spoke highly of my abilities. Perhaps it was a nice way of letting me down since I had been advised this is generally a usual part of their job. :\ I no longer have a viable academic reference option.

[java0008]

I am so sorry. But a half hearted recommendation is equally bad as no recommendation so maybe you can find someone else to replace the professor?

[gem.]

There's no definitely no other academic option. So disheartening but I'm not going to give up. I just don't get why he couldn't have recycled the last reference and added in a bit about the school/my goals.

My plan is to get two or three( HOPEFULLY three) supervisor references as normal, then mail (or attach online? Not sure what the application portal looks like) in my two academic references from 2013, explaining the situation. While the reports may not discuss my current goals or reference the schools I am applying to, they are still the most accurate reference of my time at university which ended in 2013. That's the best option I have now.

Edited July 28, 2015 by gem.

[knp]

Honestly, if he's not going to write you one anyway and you didn't already mention it, can you ask him specifically to recycle the old one with slight updates, rather than write you a new one from scratch? Only you know how easily offended he is, but if he's a nice dude it might at least be worth asking. I tend to have rather informal relationships with my professors, so I could get away with this with a couple professors for sure. On the other hand, I know I'm an outlier, and there are other professors where it would be a Very Bad Idea. So just raising the idea to see what you think.

[gem.]

A great idea, but he is quite blunt and open if he doesn't want to do something. At this stage I don't feel comfortable pursuing it. I was planning a visit to the U.S. in January, it's a shame I'm not going earlier as this sort of conversation might be more comfortable in person.

He also said he thinks my 'other professors' would provide a better character assessment, but I haven't studied since his two courses and Its just not common in Australia for our uni teachers to get to know their students as individuals (one of the reasons I'm keen to study again in the U.S.!) and provide a considered reference. I really valued his assessment moreso than any Aussie professor.