Research Experience and Letters for Chemistry Programs

[AkashSky]

Hey, I'm Akash and I'm going to be applying for a chemistry PhD with a specialization in physical chemistry come fall of 2016.  I am currently a chemical engineering major and I have a strong background in mathematics, physics and chemistry, so I feel that this PhD is a great fit for me.

My Current Cumulative GPA is 3.452, with my Major GPA being 3.69 (I kinda suck at humanity courses, and I refuse to take them pass no pass because i'm retarded and sincere)

By the time I apply (Dec 1) , I will have had ~6 months of research experience (3 months full, 3 part) in a Neuroscience lab.  I might be close to getting a publication, but I don't think it will be out in time for the application cycle.  In addition, I think that my letters will not be the best, but they will be average, (the letter from my supervisor will be great, the letter from a professor i know moderately well should be okay, and my last letter will be from a professor that I've only taken 1 class with).

I will be taking the GRE October 22, ( for the first time, kinda last minute :x, but I have been studying for this for the past 2 months) and will be taking the Chem GRE shortly after (Been studying for this for a month so far).  From my practice tests I am expecting no less than 160 in the quantitative section, and at least 155 in the verbal section.

 

As for the Chem GRE, I honestly have no idea what to expect for my score.  I am hoping that I score higher than the 50 percentile. Also there are limited practice tests for it online, and most of my studying has been from reviewing my old chemistry text books.

Currently these are the schools that I am applying to.  (I may apply to another, as I still have time to research professors, I have researched the professors for all of these schools and have narrowed down the ones who conduct research I am interested in).

Dream: UC Berkeley; Harvard

Reach: University of Minnesota Twin Cities 

Target: USC, Princeton University; UCLA

I also searched online/emailed these universities for their average Gre and Chem gre scores, and is how I ranked them from Dream to Reach to Target.  However, my question is this, will having 6 months of research experience, average letters of recommendation, and a 3.452 cumulative gpa  hurt, help, or do nothing at all to the arrangement that I have above?  In other words, have I accurately assigned dream, reach, and target to the above schools?

 

I'll edit this post as I receive my actual test scores.

Edited October 4, 2015 by AkashSky

[raybans7]

I think you've assigned them about accurately. It would ideal if you could get that publication out by application time. For what it's worth, I'm applying to UCLA, Berkeley, Stanford, Northwestern, University of Washington, UC-Boulder, and Caltech with a similar GPA (~3.37 overall, ~3.57 major GPA and `3.55 GPA without freshman year), likely similar GRE scores, but my research experience is slightly better (2 2nd author papers and I'm writing a 1st author paper now, one summer at Northwestern, one summer at Caltech, and 2+ years of experience). 

[AkashSky]

I think you've assigned them about accurately. It would ideal if you could get that publication out by application time. For what it's worth, I'm applying to UCLA, Berkeley, Stanford, Northwestern, University of Washington, UC-Boulder, and Caltech with a similar GPA (~3.37 overall, ~3.57 major GPA and `3.55 GPA without freshman year), likely similar GRE scores, but my research experience is slightly better (2 2nd author papers and I'm writing a 1st author paper now, one summer at Northwestern, one summer at Caltech, and 2+ years of experience). 

That is significantly better research experience!  Between the schools you are applying to, which are your reach and target?

[raybans7]

My target schools are UCLA (I've been in contact with a professor at UCLA), UC-Boulder, and UWashington. The rest are reaches. NU I feel like I have a decent chance sent I spent a summer there, but Caltech/Berkeley/Stanford I feel like are reaches. 

[Cookie]

Akash, I'm in Physical chemistry as well and from the statistics of those I know in Harvard and Berkeley, there is very very little chance that you will get accepted to these programs, since there is not a single aspect of your application that really stands out (so-so GPA, too little research experience, not-great rec letters, your expected Chem GRE and general GRE are both low).

You might have a shot if (1) your Chem GRE is amazing (>80%), AND (2) your POIs personally support your application.

[AkashSky]

Akash, I'm in Physical chemistry as well and from the statistics of those I know in Harvard and Berkeley, there is very very little chance that you will get accepted to these programs, since there is not a single aspect of your application that really stands out (so-so GPA, too little research experience, not-great rec letters, your expected Chem GRE and general GRE are both low).

You might have a shot if (1) your Chem GRE is amazing (>80%), AND (2) your POIs personally support your application.

Thanks for the feedback cookie!  I guess I was right in putting those two schools in the dream category ;x.  But I do have 1 question, since I what I listed for my GRE is "Low" what would be considered  an average score?  What about a high score?

[Cookie]

Good GRE: V/Q > 160, W > 4.5

[raybans7]

Good GRE: V/Q > 160, W > 4.5

I just took the GRE and got a 161 V and 162 Q. Are these scores considered good given the rest of my profile? 

[Eigen]

My worry about your application is less GPA and GRE scores, as these don't matter as much as you seem to think. I'd worry more about the fact that your undergrad is in ChemE rather than Chemistry, as well as the fact that not only is the research experience short, it's in a different field entirely.

The most important thing for grad school is usually fit- showing that you're prepared to jump into a research program, and a ChemE degree with Neuro research experience doesn't strike me as the ideal background for PChem. If you could wrangle 3 really strong letters, that would help a lot- and they'd need to speak to your ability as a physical chemist.

[Quantum Buckyball]

GPA and GRE scores will only help you pass the preliminary screening which are often done using a software. My program pays more attention to LOR, work experiences and how they are relevant to chemistry, and solid reasons why you want to pursue higher education in chemistry, your commitment to a research lab. I worked in the same lab for 3 years as an undergrad when I was applying to PhD programs. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by Quantum Buckyball

[AkashSky]

My worry about your application is less GPA and GRE scores, as these don't matter as much as you seem to think. I'd worry more about the fact that your undergrad is in ChemE rather than Chemistry, as well as the fact that not only is the research experience short, it's in a different field entirely.

The most important thing for grad school is usually fit- showing that you're prepared to jump into a research program, and a ChemE degree with Neuro research experience doesn't strike me as the ideal background for PChem. If you could wrangle 3 really strong letters, that would help a lot- and they'd need to speak to your ability as a physical chemist.

Thanks for the feedback Eigen!

Ah, I kinda procrastinated on the research so I kinda just panicked last year school year and applied to whatever was available.  I was accepted to the neuroscience lab, and from what I've heard from other people, any research experience is valuable for the admissions committee, any in my case it was either neuroscience research experience or none.

Your concerns for my background are valid, but I can't really do anything to change them so I will most likely have to make due with what I have/ am.  Also, Chem-E is similar to physical chemistry in terms of the math and physics courses needed, along with the thermo and another things.  I think the only thing I didn't take was a statistical mechanics course.  My P-chem professor told me to mention that specifically and emphasize why I would be a good candidate even though my major is Chem-E.

My trouble will be finding a way to make the neuroscience research relevant to chemistry research.  I plan on talking about the general things that research experiences give, like critical thinking etc.  Any specific advise on this?

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by AkashSky

[AkashSky]

GPA and GRE scores will only help you pass the preliminary screening which are often done using a software. My program pays more attention to LOR, work experiences and how they are relevant to chemistry, and solid reasons why you want to pursue higher education in chemistry, your commitment to a research lab. I worked in the same lab for 3 years as an undergrad when I was applying to PhD programs. 

Should I mention that I continue to work in this research lab until I graduate in spring? (which would make for a full year of research experience before entering the graduate program).  I've already talked to the professors who are going to write my letters, and have scheduled coffee/lunch with them in 2 weeks, (after midterms so they will have more free time).  Is there anything specific I should mention to them that could make my letters stand out more?

I also don't have work experience (other than the research experience but I don't think they are the same thing), but I'm going to answer the solid reasons why I want to pursue higher edu, and commitment to lab in the writing requirements, (SOP, etc).

 

Thank you for your insight bucky!

Edited October 16, 2015 by AkashSky

[Eigen]

Be careful comparing ChemE thermo to Chemistry thermo. 

Both thy places I've been, the courses are very different. 

I assume you've taken QM, even if you didn't take Staf Mech?

[AkashSky]

Be careful comparing ChemE thermo to Chemistry thermo. 

Both thy places I've been, the courses are very different. 

I assume you've taken QM, even if you didn't take Staf Mech?

Yes, I took QM and not Staf Mech, (although I was planning on taking it and Chemistry thermo,  but my university cut a lot of course requirements for graduation since the average student in my major was taking 5 years to graduate, so I thought that I may as well hustle a little and finish earlier since its now do-able).

Even if the courses are very different, shouldn't taking 1 help understand the other since the material is similar?

[Eigen]

It will help, sure. 

But you'll be trying to convince a program that you can jump into graduate level coursework (and research) in pchem, and that you're as able (or more) than any of the other candidates they have applying. 

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm just highlighting the areas I see as red flags. 

What area of physical chemistry do you want to get into? Are you familiar with the literature in that area? If so, that can certainly help. 

[AkashSky]

I'm interested in materials science, energy, and surface chemistry, although I am nothing more than a dilettante in these areas.  Hopefully going to grad school will change that. 

I am not familiar with the literature at all in the area that I'm interested, but saying I put some time in and reading up on it, what part of my application would I mention it?

 

[Eigen]

I wouldn't generally classify any of those research areas as physical chemistry. 

They're either straight up materials, or inorganic, usually. 

Not it that there aren't some physical groups that study surfaces/materials, but they're more experimental/instrumentation based. 

Familiarizig yourself with the literature  comes across in all areas of your application. And it's just something that you can't really be successful without doing. 

You need to know exactly what researcher you're interested in, and be able to show why you can successfully do that work. Especially coming from a background thatcher look scattered. 

If you come from a ChemE/Neuro background and say you're interested in physical chemistry, energy and surfaces, it will come across like you don't know the field. 

That said, your interests seem like they would fit very well in an engineering physics program or a chemical engineering program. Why are you interested in a Chem PhD over those options?

In short, I think you need to take some more time figuring out your interests, and what you want to do with them before settling on a program of you want to have a better shot. 

[Monstercookie]

I don't quite agree with Eigen regarding his view on your ChemE degree. I come from a ChemE background and have never had that held against me, rather the opposite. I feel that the professors and students I meet at my university (top tire chem program), as well as those I met on other similar schools during visitation weekends and other events, tend to view my background as a strength. Being willing to and having the guts to do something significantly different from what you have experience in is viewed very favorably in my experience. 

[Eigen]

I think you misunderstood my worries. 

I know plenty of people that have made the Chem/ChemE jump, but all have been able to show that they will do so well, or have some experience/definite interests in Chemistry. 

Its just one of several red flags that jump up in my mind with AkaskSky's background. 

[AkashSky]

On 10/18/2015, 1:06:56, Eigen said:

I wouldn't generally classify any of those research areas as physical chemistry. 

They're either straight up materials, or inorganic, usually. 

Not it that there aren't some physical groups that study surfaces/materials, but they're more experimental/instrumentation based. 

Familiarizig yourself with the literature  comes across in all areas of your application. And it's just something that you can't really be successful without doing. 

You need to know exactly what researcher you're interested in, and be able to show why you can successfully do that work. Especially coming from a background thatcher look scattered. 

If you come from a ChemE/Neuro background and say you're interested in physical chemistry, energy and surfaces, it will come across like you don't know the field. 

That said, your interests seem like they would fit very well in an engineering physics program or a chemical engineering program. Why are you interested in a Chem PhD over those options?

In short, I think you need to take some more time figuring out your interests, and what you want to do with them before settling on a program of you want to have a better shot. 

 

After doing more research and reading academic papers I decided that I am interested in electromagnetic energy conversion (taking photons from light and transferring it to chemical potential) and Catalyst design.  I plan on reading up significantly more during thanks giving break so I may have more to add.

also as an added note, my research in neuroscience was image analysis, where I developed a program to automatically analyze spinal graft segments, so I feel that some of that is transferable since imaging is used in a myriad of fields.

My main reason for wanting to try out a chem PhD over engineering/ chem engineering is because I want to enter a new field during graduate school and gain a different perspective and build off on things i learned in undergrad.

 

And Finally, Is there a glitch where you can only edit post once on gradcafe?  There seems to be no option for me to edit my original post.

[Eigen]

2 hours ago, AkashSky said:

 

After doing more research and reading academic papers I decided that I am interested in electromagnetic energy conversion (taking photons from light and transferring it to chemical potential) and Catalyst design.  I plan on reading up significantly more during thanks giving break so I may have more to add.

also as an added note, my research in neuroscience was image analysis, where I developed a program to automatically analyze spinal graft segments, so I feel that some of that is transferable since imaging is used in a myriad of fields.

My main reason for wanting to try out a chem PhD over engineering/ chem engineering is because I want to enter a new field during graduate school and gain a different perspective and build off on things i learned in undergrad.

 

And Finally, Is there a glitch where you can only edit post once on gradcafe?  There seems to be no option for me to edit my original post.

I'm assuming you mean you're interested in photochemistry? Electromagnetic energy conversion, while correct, isn't something you'll find anyone in the field use much if at all. Particularly, I assume you're interested in metal based photocatalysts?

Catalyst design overlaps with photochemistry in Inorganic chemistry.

While imaging is used in a number of fields, it's not all that common in chemistry. Some in materials science, some in biomedical applications, but not much in the fields you're interested in. It's not bad experience, but it doesn't prepare you for what you want to do.

I understand wanting a new perspective in grad school, but that makes a hard sell to an admissions committee- they're looking for someone that knows they want to build off the perspective of the field (chemistry), not someone that wants more exposure to it. It's generally a time to refine and focus interests from undergrad, rather than to broaden them.

As to edits, there's a 30-60 minute window after a post that you can edit, after that it's permanent.