Let's be real: do lower GRE scores matter for an MA in rhet/comp? Getting conflicting advice...

[klader]

Hi all,

I've posted on this forum before earlier in my undergraduate career, but now I am deep into the fall 2016 application season as a senior and would really appreciate some advice. I just took the GRE today, and the preliminary results were less than pleasing: 151 verbal and 151 quantitative with (most likely/hopefully) good AWA scores. I understand that 300 combined is supposed to be average/50th percentile, so I'm at 302, which is just a shade higher than average (or potentially less depending on the percentiles that come out).

Other than this disappointment, the rest of my application should be strong as one who's majoring in Writing and Rhetoric and applying to rhet/comp programs. I have a 3.94 GPA, worked at the writing center for 3 years, served as a teaching assistant, served as a type of student assistant in a basic writing class, presented at two writing center conferences (one international and one regional) with presentations that focused on rhetoric, am applying to present a research poster (also about rhetoric) at Cs this year, helped a professor design and conduct an academic workshop, helped design writing center training and professional development (specifically about, you got it, rhetoric), won a writing award, won a few French awards, studied abroad, president of one club and vice president of another, co-editor of a student-published journal, have a compelling story that enhances my personal statement, have amazing letters of rec, and will have a solid, research-based writing sample about *garsh!* rhetoric (I'm working on it this semester).

I'm sure there are people applying who have way more impressive accomplishments AND a great GRE score, so my question is, does the GRE matter that much in my particular case in our particular field? I've asked my professors, and their advice differs. Some say the GRE doesn't matter because composition people don't care much for standard test-taking, some say it might be important to secure funding, some say it can help but not hurt an application, etc.

I'm particularly concerned with Penn State, the University of New Mexico, Ohio University, and Miami University of Ohio since they require the GRE. I'm also applying to Michigan State that doesn't require it, but I'm still worried about that as well (perhaps a good GRE score could give me an edge, after all).

I'm applying to some other "safeties" (if one can even have safeties at this level!) in Michigan that don't require the GRE, but given my stats and my interests (rhetoric and writing center studies), are there other, more realistic schools I should be looking at that perhaps DON'T place a large emphasis on the GRE?

I'm sorry that this post is kind of winding, but I'm just really freaking out about the GRE. Truthfully I didn't really study for it (looked up some math stuff a few times), and I KNOW I could get a better score with the proper preparation. However, that's also time taken away from the other parts of my applications (which is a big deal since I have a lot of them open right now), so I'm torn. I could take the GRE again on December 1st or 15th (the 15th would be pushing it since Penn State's app is due Jan 1st), but I just don't know what to do.

Thanks so much for reading and for putting up with me! I appreciate any advice or suggestions.

[pro Augustis]

In your place I would take the GRE again. Yes, it takes time away from he rest of your application and that is unfortunate, but it is a lot less unfortunate than someone not looking at the rest of your (extremely impressive!) application because of something as stupid as the GRE. I'm from a different field, so take this with a grain of salt, but in Classics/History I have been told that Quant doesn't matter so long as you don't totally embarrass yourself (anecdotally, I have a friend in art history at a top ten school who got ~50% percentile on quant), while verbal should be above 160 at least. If you didn't study much now, I am sure that you could boost your grade substantially by doing just an hour or so of vocab review or whatever every day till December, which is what I did to prep for the math over the summer. 

[klader]

Thank you so much for your reply! I agree that it would be very unfortunate for my application not to even get reviewed of my score, which some people say can happen, others say can't...

Do you think I should take it December 1st or 15th? Those are the only two days available in my area, and I'm worried that the 15th would cut too close to the Jan 1st deadline of a couple of schools. 

Also, do I submit the application with my original scores and tell them I'm retaking it? 4 of the schools will already have my scores since I sent it directly from the test center.

This is why I'm thinking that it would be better to take the test Dec 1st because then my second set of scores could be sent out by mid-December, and then I could finish the rest of my application.

[pro Augustis]

In your place, I would probably do the sooner date and, for schools that don't already have the first test, only send the new one. But here I am getting somewhat out of my depth, as I actually have no idea how deadlines and GRE scores interact or how long it takes GRE scores to arrive once sent, information that could obviously change things substantially. 

[Romanista]

This topic came up about a week ago on the WPA-L (http://wpacouncil.org/wpa-l). 

[bhr]

I wouldn't retake it, unless you hear from a program that really wants it. At least one program on your list (the one I'm in) doesn't use it at all, and, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't carry much weight in this field. Universities want a minimum standard, and it may help qualify for university fellowships, but as an MA you likely (read: probably) aren't eligible for them to begin with. Also, and I say this with all seriousness, but I wouldn't expect you to see too many candidates out of undergrad with better qualifications than you listed here.

[Dr. Old Bill]

For $200 and four hours of your time, I would retake it if only for peace of mind. You're paying close to that amount, and likely spending a similar amount of time for each individual application, after all. If you know that the GRE is an area of weakness, taking a bit more time and spending a bit more money to fix that seems prudent to me, at least. But as ever, YMMV...

[Ramus]

15 hours ago, klader said:

I'm sure there are people applying who have way more impressive accomplishments AND a great GRE score, so my question is, does the GRE matter that much in my particular case in our particular field? I've asked my professors, and their advice differs. Some say the GRE doesn't matter because composition people don't care much for standard test-taking, some say it might be important to secure funding, some say it can help but not hurt an application, etc.

The problem, it seems to me, is that you can't know who exactly will be evaluating your application, and what the individual admissions committees will value. Maybe the committee will be made up of largely rhet/comp people who will overlook that score, but it could just as easily be comprised of literature people who will see that score as a big red flag. (And this is assuming that all rhet/comp faculty really downplay the GRE score and all literature people really value the score, which probably doesn't square with reality.) Unless the graduate program is explicit about how they conduct admissions (and very few are), you can't know who will look at your application or what they'll prioritize, and everything will vary program to program.

What I do know is that your score verbal score is in the 50th percentile of all GRE verbal scores, meaning that it is average among a group that includes the scores of those who in no way specialize in language and communication. I think it's reasonable to say, then, that your score would actually look well below average to anyone on an admissions committee, regardless of their specialization. And for that reason, it's worth taking the test again. You don't want to take a chance that something a silly as a standardized test score might impede your admission to graduate school. I wouldn't want to take that chance, anyway. 

[1Q84]

Yep, I'm on the side of those saying to re-take and also echo the 160 minimum. OP, you mentioned in your post that you heard that it could keep you from obtaining funding and I think that's a huge consideration. No one wants to attend a humanities graduate program unfunded.

[Dr. Old Bill]

For what it's worth, I had a 162 verbal and was very disappointed...to the point that I retook the GRE six weeks later. I scored slightly lower the second time around (my alarm failed to go off, and I had to rush to the testing center 50 miles away, which left me completely rattled. Excuses, excuses), and I sincerely considered it taking it yet again, but didn't. In retrospect, I probably should have taken it a third time just in case...

I firmly believe that in a relatively unfair process like grad school applications -- a process that is only a one- or two-time endeavor for most of us -- you might as well do all you can to make yourself a competitive candidate. There are enough adverse forces that will make some of the decision for you, so you might as well take away as many obvious red flags as possible.

Different people have different approaches that work just as well, however.

[Between Fields]

I think your best bet would to check the minimum scores required at each of the institutions you're looking at (not the department). If you have to, ask the graduate school. A bad GRE score could keep you out of the university on a technicality, when the department might not really care. Even if they like you, someone would have to stick their neck out for you to override the university's minimum requirement, and in some cases that's not even possible. 

From a department-specific standpoint, though, it doesn't really matter if your other qualifications are good.

[dr. t]

3 hours ago, Between Fields said:

From a department-specific standpoint, though, it doesn't really matter if your other qualifications are good.

Eeeeh. Remember, applications are comparative, not absolute. There may be no clear best candidate (and with the competitive nature of admissions, I'd say this is almost universal), so those making the selection need ways to discriminate. One candidate having verbal GRE in the 50th percentile is a really cheap and easy way to do that. Heck, having one candidate with a verbal GRE below the 90th percentile works pretty well, too. All bets are off when the committee sits.

[GeoDUDE!]

If the department/application asks for it, it is important. You should do the best you can on everything. This isn't just for graduate school, but life. People don't ask for what they don't want. 

[dr. t]

4 hours ago, GeoDUDE! said:

If the department/application asks for it, it is important. You should do the best you can on everything. This isn't just for graduate school, but life. People don't ask for what they don't want. 

You have clearly never worked in customer service 

[klader]

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the input! I really, really appreciate it.

So, I see that the consensus is that I should retake the test, but I talked to a few of my professors and they said that they didn't think it was worth worrying about... Personally, I feel like perhaps I SHOULD retake it, but would it be worth spending several hours over the next few weeks and taking away time from my writing sample and personal statement? Also, I know that I can improve significantly on the math with some proper review, but I don't know how much better I can do on verbal given the short amount of time (3 weeks isn't the best amount of time if I choose the December 1st option).

I know I should have taken time long before this to work on these skills, but when it comes down to it, I don't care about scoring well on some standardized test -- I care about writing, teaching writing, and getting the opportunity to work with new, amazing people and growing even more in this field, which is what I have been doing with my time. I don't feel like my scores on the GRE can possibly reflect that sentiment, and while I would hope that admissions committees would feel that way, too, I'm just not sure because of the increasing competition of this field. 

Also, I was wondering what everyone can suggest regarding which date would be best to take it -- December 1st or 15th? I know it takes 10-15 days after the test date for scores to be sent out to schools, so would a December 15th date be too late for a January 1st deadline (even if they have my first score already and I could note in my application that I retook it the 15th and scores will be sent out)?

Thanks again!

[TeaOverCoffee]

I know I'm late to this post, but I'm a horrible (abysmal, actually) standardized test-taker. While I'm not proud to say this, I scored below the 50th percentile, and I was accepted/currently attend one of those schools on your list that require the GRE. Your letters of recommendation and writing sample will be prioritized over your standardized test scores. 

Nevertheless, I am going to retake the test before applying for PhD programs. I simply wanted to let you know that people have been accepted with lower scores than yours.