Decent masters GPA makes up for horrible ugrad GPA... right?

[dancedementia]

Currently in a Mental Health Counseling master's program. GPA is 3.9.

My undergraduate degree was a disasters. GPA was 2.9.

When applying to PhD programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology, will that 2.9 be a horrible glaring mark on my application, or will the 3.9 masters GPA be enough to reassure them that I got my head screwed back on properly and am ready/prepared to work?

Edited November 4, 2015 by dancedementia

[khunconan]

I'd say it depends. Some top clinical Ph.D. programs pay only little attention to master's GPA. Some even disregard it completely. Unfortunately, it is particularly true for clinical programs (may be because of its competitiveness). I've seen many people having the same issues. I can even give you the specific example of the person I personally know. She got 4.00 GPA from the respectable, research-oriented master's program but her undergrad GPA is around 3.2-3.3 (not sure). She was rejected from a lot of clinical programs and when asked, the programs told her that it's because of her low undergrad GPA and they didn't look at her master's GPA. However, there might also be other factors except the GPA. I mean, nobody knows...

I don't want to let you down, but you may need to be prepared for the worst. If I were you, I wouldn't expect too much from my master's GPA but wouldn't be too concerned either. Your undergrad GPA is something from the past that cannot be changed. I believe your high GPA from your master's will make you pass the initial 'cut-off.' So if the rest of your application is great and your POI wants to accept you, he/she may not care about your undergrad GPA. If the POI isn't interested, though, he/she can just easily blame it on your undergrad GPA. Therefore, it really isn't worth worrying. 

[dancedementia]

So as a curveball. I was actually enrolled in a second bachelors program (in Psychology) before I got accepted to the masters program. I am technically still enrolled in the 2nd bachelor's, it's just on hold. I have the option of taking like 3 more classes and finishing it up. I have a 4.0 in the 2nd bachelor's right now. Do you think it would be worth it to complete that 2nd bachelor's so that my cumulative undergrad GPA is bumped up? I feel like if they can see my trajectory of 1st bachelor 2.9 -> 2nd bachelor 4.0 it might be more illustrative that I was able to get my act together.

Or do you think 2nd bachelor's are totally stupid and not worth doing? Haha.

[EdNeuroGrl]

I have heard about Master's GPA being very helpful and I have heard it told the other way. One professor told me that because of grade-inflation if you are getting too many B's it means there is something wrong, otherwise a master's student with a 3.8 to 4.0 is completely normal and nothing special. I've had another prof tell me the opposite, that regardless of undergraduate GPA, having shown that you can handle and succeed in graduate level courses is going to be a big plus on your application. I've also heard that some programs will simply ignore a master's gpa entirely... So, not a super helpful answer but as far as I can tell it won't HURT... I don't know how much it will help though. :-/

[khunconan]

3 hours ago, dancedementia said:

So as a curveball. I was actually enrolled in a second bachelors program (in Psychology) before I got accepted to the masters program. I am technically still enrolled in the 2nd bachelor's, it's just on hold. I have the option of taking like 3 more classes and finishing it up. I have a 4.0 in the 2nd bachelor's right now. Do you think it would be worth it to complete that 2nd bachelor's so that my cumulative undergrad GPA is bumped up? I feel like if they can see my trajectory of 1st bachelor 2.9 -> 2nd bachelor 4.0 it might be more illustrative that I was able to get my act together.

Or do you think 2nd bachelor's are totally stupid and not worth doing? Haha.

Not sure if I got it correctly. So you are in the 2nd bachelor's and master's programs right now and you will definitely get an excellent grade from both? If so, why not? I can't see any disadvantage of graduating with 4.0 undergrad GPA and 3.9 master's GPA. Some program may look at your most recent undergrad GPA. Some may average the old and the new. Either way is definitely good for you.   

Edited November 4, 2015 by khunconan

[dancedementia]

13 hours ago, khunconan said:

Not sure if I got it correctly. So you are in the 2nd bachelor's and master's programs right now and you will definitely get an excellent grade from both? If so, why not? I can't see any disadvantage of graduating with 4.0 undergrad GPA and 3.9 master's GPA. Some program may look at your most recent undergrad GPA. Some may average the old and the new. Either way is definitely good for you.   

Sounds great in theory, haha. My 2nd bachelor's institution (small branch campus of state university) is definitely a huuuuge step removed from my 1st bachelor's though (Ivy League). Doesn't it just look fishy that I have a 4.0 in my 2nd bachelor's, as if I purposefully went to an easy school to get better grades? (This wasn't the case - I picked that school because of financial obligations). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[khunconan]

2 hours ago, dancedementia said:

Sounds great in theory, haha. My 2nd bachelor's institution (small branch campus of state university) is definitely a huuuuge step removed from my 1st bachelor's though (Ivy League). Doesn't it just look fishy that I have a 4.0 in my 2nd bachelor's, as if I purposefully went to an easy school to get better grades? (This wasn't the case - I picked that school because of financial obligations). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Well...everything you have done can look fishy. Having a master's degree can look particularly fishy because many people went there to 'boost' their low undergrad GPA as it's much easier to get a high master's GPA. That's why some people said your master's can even hurt you if you apply to some very traditional, competitive schools (I didn't want to say this at first because I wasn't sure if it's really true). 

You will never know what they would think, so just do everything you can. If they would heavily pay attention to your undergrad GPA to the exclusion of all else, then whether you have a 2nd bachelor or master's isn't gonna matter. On the other hand, the discrepancy in your grades might mean that your 1st undergrad institution is very harsh in terms of grading so the grade doesn't reflect much on your true performance. If so, the fact that your 1st school is an Ivy League can even help. My point is you can't read people's mind so just move on.

Actually GRE is more important than GPA in this case. If you have very strong GRE scores, people can tell that your good grades in 2nd bachelor's and master's are 'real' and your 1st bachelor's is just some mistake in the past (not reflect your performance in the grad school).

[Oddtimes]

For what it's worth, here's  my experience. I have two bachelor's degrees, and I did pretty poorly during the first one (B.A. in Liberal Arts with concentrations in psychology and marketing). I graduated with a 2.9 and had two semesters where I got "WFs" in all of my classes. I actually failed my first intro. psychology course. However, I did better my final year, getting a 3.4 in the fall and 3.7 in the spring. Three years later, I went back for a second bachelor's degree with the intention of trying to get into grad school. I completed my second degree (B.S. in psychology) with a 4.0 (around 60 additional credits). So, there was a steep incline in my GPA. I also took part in research, presented a poster at a regional conference, got a study published in an undergraduate journal (which hardly counts as a publication) and had strong letters of recommendation. This was enough to get me into a Master's program but not enough to get me into the two doctorate programs I applied to. So, I went on to get my Master's with the goal of going on to a Phd. I graduated with a 3.98 and made sure I was involved in research as much as I could be. I also presented at two more conferences, one state and one national. Again, I made sure to build relationships that would lead to strong letters of recommendation. In the end, I applied to five doctorate programs: 1 clinical, 1 social, 3 counseling (all at least decent programs with APA accreditation). I was outright denied at the clinical and social programs, which are notoriously hard to get into. I was waitlisted at all three counseling programs, one of which sent me a letter not long after the interview saying that the faculty member I applied to work with left the program, so that was a no go. Ultimately, I got an offer from ONE program at the beginning of April, and I accepted. Oh, and my GRE scores were far from great (around 78th percentile in verbal, 23rd in quantitative, and a 3 in writing). So, I'd say it is possible to overcome a poor undergraduate GPA (and crappy GRE scores), but not without a lot work. You can have a weak area or two if other areas are strong. It also depends on how competitive the programs are you applying to.