Usage of Calculus in Your MPP/MPA Courses

[Ben414]

I have AP credit for Calculus I and am considering taking Calculus II before applying to MPP/MPA programs next fall.  Doing some research, it seems that many schools use single variable calculus for their core curriculum in economics to some degree.  My question is: for those who were not on an advanced linear algebra/multivariable calculus track, how often did you use calculus in your courses?  Would you recommend taking Calc II, or is Calc I enough for the non-advanced quantitative tracks?

[MaxwellAlum]

I also had done AP calculus in high school but could barely remember what a derivative was a couple of years out of college.  I did take a mathematics for economics class before starting my MPA degree, which included some calculus, and then signed up for the more advanced section of the quantitative analysis class during my MPA program.  The calculus was useful for understanding some of the statistics, but I don't think it was pivotal.  I think we had maybe one exam question that involved some sort of calculus.  The other sections did not use calculus at all (and I don't think they were necessarily worse for it).  My understanding is that in most MPA/MPP programs, most students do not have an extensive math background - that is certainly my experience at Maxwell.

[Ben414]

I wonder if it depends heavily on the specific school.  From that SIPA professor's blog, he said SIPA's Development Econ track comes close to using the same math as the first year in their Econ PhD.  I assume that means at least calc I and II (and maybe some linear algebra or multivariable calc).  I imagine schools like Berkeley, Chicago, Princeton, Harvard use similar levels of math in their quant-heavy tracks.

Harvard requires multivariable calculus for their Public Policy PhD program, which leaves me wondering which MPP/MPA degrees are preparing students to use that level of math.

[MaxwellAlum]

Absolutely some schools are going to use calculus in some of their classes/tracks, but unless they require that level of math as part of admission to the program or track, you'll most likely find that most of your fellow students do not have much of a calculus background.  I'm quite certain that Harvard's MPP program, for example, does not require knowledge of calculus for admission, but that it does for the MPA/ID program.  People I know who attended Harvard for the MPP neither entered or left with calculus.  MPP/MPA programs are different from Ph.D. programs in that they are typically preparing you to mainly be a consumer of empirical research and less so a producer.  Certainly some people will go from an MPP to a very quant-focused role, and those people will often have sought out the quant-heavy courses.  But there are many, many public sector-related jobs in which you will never run a regression yourself, and many people do not attend MPP programs with the goal of getting a quant-heavy job.  Ph.D. programs are preparing people to enter academia, where the ability to produce empirical research is essential.   

[xXIDaShizIXx]

1 hour ago, MaxwellAlum said:

Absolutely some schools are going to use calculus in some of their classes/tracks, but unless they require that level of math as part of admission to the program or track, you'll most likely find that most of your fellow students do not have much of a calculus background.  I'm quite certain that Harvard's MPP program, for example, does not require knowledge of calculus for admission, but that it does for the MPA/ID program.  People I know who attended Harvard for the MPP neither entered or left with calculus.  MPP/MPA programs are different from Ph.D. programs in that they are typically preparing you to mainly be a consumer of empirical research and less so a producer.  Certainly some people will go from an MPP to a very quant-focused role, and those people will often have sought out the quant-heavy courses.  But there are many, many public sector-related jobs in which you will never run a regression yourself, and many people do not attend MPP programs with the goal of getting a quant-heavy job.  Ph.D. programs are preparing people to enter academia, where the ability to produce empirical research is essential.   

I agree with this as well. I believe most that have a MPA/MPP obtained it to either put them in an administrative position or help them with their administrative responsibilities. 

[Ben414]

4 hours ago, MaxwellAlum said:

Absolutely some schools are going to use calculus in some of their classes/tracks, but unless they require that level of math as part of admission to the program or track, you'll most likely find that most of your fellow students do not have much of a calculus background.  I'm quite certain that Harvard's MPP program, for example, does not require knowledge of calculus for admission, but that it does for the MPA/ID program.  People I know who attended Harvard for the MPP neither entered or left with calculus.  MPP/MPA programs are different from Ph.D. programs in that they are typically preparing you to mainly be a consumer of empirical research and less so a producer.  Certainly some people will go from an MPP to a very quant-focused role, and those people will often have sought out the quant-heavy courses.  But there are many, many public sector-related jobs in which you will never run a regression yourself, and many people do not attend MPP programs with the goal of getting a quant-heavy job.  Ph.D. programs are preparing people to enter academia, where the ability to produce empirical research is essential.   

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm sure positions as a program officer, policy advisor, director of government relations, operations manager, etc. wouldn't, but there are some that I'm not sure about.  I'm not sure what level of math I would need for the positions similar to the following (I don't imagine you will know the answer to all of these, but if you know some I'd appreciate the help):

- Policy Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Research Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Analyst for the CBO or GAO

[xXIDaShizIXx]

On 12/24/2015 at 11:28 AM, Ben414 said:

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm sure positions as a program officer, policy advisor, director of government relations, operations manager, etc. wouldn't, but there are some that I'm not sure about.  I'm not sure what level of math I would need for the positions similar to the following (I don't imagine you will know the answer to all of these, but if you know some I'd appreciate the help):

- Policy Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Research Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Analyst for the CBO or GAO

I've actually had a few relatives go into this type of work and seriously a strong grasp of statistics and algebra and you'll be fine. 

[MaxwellAlum]

On December 24, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Ben414 said:

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm sure positions as a program officer, policy advisor, director of government relations, operations manager, etc. wouldn't, but there are some that I'm not sure about.  I'm not sure what level of math I would need for the positions similar to the following (I don't imagine you will know the answer to all of these, but if you know some I'd appreciate the help):

- Policy Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Research Analyst for a nonprofit or government

- Analyst for the CBO or GAO

It depends a bit on the specific job, but I agree with the previous poster that for many jobs in the three categories you listed, algebra and statistics is fine.  I am a government policy analyst and I definitely don't need calculus.  For the GAO, my understanding is they have similar requirements (nothing more advanced than algebra and stats), but you could look through their reports to see whether they do things that require more advsnced math, to see how you can make yourself more competitive.  For CBO my impression is that they do hire economists to make a lot of their projections, and I'd expect those need P.h.D level math and economics coursework, but they also hire budget analysts for whom a standard MPP is fine.  From my perspective, having more math can't hurt and could come in handy, but it is not a requirement for most jobs in the field.

[Ben414]

It's disappointing I couldn't find this information anywhere on schools' websites, because this is very helpful and I'm sure plenty others would agree.  Thank you.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Ben414

[xXIDaShizIXx]

5 hours ago, MaxwellAlum said:

It depends a bit on the specific job, but I agree with the previous poster that for many jobs in the three categories you listed, algebra and statistics is fine.  I am a government policy analyst and I definitely don't need calculus.  For the GAO, my understanding is they have similar requirements (nothing more advanced than algebra and stats), but you could look through their reports to see whether they do things that require more advsnced math, to see how you can make yourself more competitive.  For CBO my impression is that they do hire economists to make a lot of their projections, and I'd expect those need P.h.D level math and economics coursework, but they also hire budget analysts for whom a standard MPP is fine.  From my perspective, having more math can't hurt and could come in handy, but it is not a requirement for most jobs in the field.

I agree as well. It does help, but not a huge a necessity unless you want to pursue doctoral level study.

[MaxwellAlum]

19 hours ago, Ben414 said:

It's disappointing I couldn't find this information anywhere on schools' websites, because this is very helpful and I'm sure plenty others would agree.  Thank you.

I'm glad this was helpful.  I do want to emphasize that the quant you do learn in an MPP can be very helpful even if you are not running regressions in your job.  At the very least, those classes will give you the basis to understand if other people's analyses are valid.  One thing you absolutely will find in the public sector is a lot of people throwing around phrases/words like "statistically significant" and "correlation" without fully understanding what those things mean, and you may very well find yourself in a position where you need to call them out on that (or at least gently correct them).

Edited December 28, 2015 by MaxwellAlum

[Vani Kapoor]

Hi

I have just completed my undergraduation in Bachelor's of Management Studies with Finance as my major. Throughout my bachelor's, I did not study Calculus as a course. But I wish to apply for the MPA/ID or the MPA program which requires calculus as a pre-requisite. I am worried and wanted to know if taking courses online from Coursera etc would suffice that requirement? And if not how can I suffice that requirement?

[ExponentialDecay]

5 hours ago, Vani Kapoor said:

Hi

I have just completed my undergraduation in Bachelor's of Management Studies with Finance as my major. Throughout my bachelor's, I did not study Calculus as a course. But I wish to apply for the MPA/ID or the MPA program which requires calculus as a pre-requisite. I am worried and wanted to know if taking courses online from Coursera etc would suffice that requirement? And if not how can I suffice that requirement?

No. You need to take a graded course for credit. Lots of universities offer it online. The MPAID program website recommends some I believe.

Also, the MPAID requires multivariable calculus (usually the third class in the calculus sequence in the US) and linear algebra. It also requires 2 years of relevant work experience. All of this is also made clear on the website. I strongly recommend you read the website.