How to start a "bye-bye" conversation with PI who didn't get a tenure?

[tilex8595]

Some background : I am in the biological science field, 2nd year grad student. When I applied to this program, I knew I will be working in this lab for my thesis and started pretty early. Now, I have 2 separate projects going on with this PI. One is almost done (meaning data collection is done and analysis is also 80% done). The preliminary result was presented in the conference for another project, but still I need to collect more data from other animals. The problem is that my PI didn't get a tenure. Her contract with university will be terminated by June.

She called lab members as soon as decision was made, telling us we will be here at least 8~12 months after June because she is expecting getting an extension. Her reasoning is that it's typical for department to allow an additional period or contract to move the animal lab. And she said I shouldn't be worried because I will be publishing these 2 papers before she has to leave and those are enough for me to graduate (I suspected that of course..). 

After a few days, department chair contacted me and told me that I have to switch the lab. I agreed since I don't even have a committee members formed yet. He even arranged a meeting with another professor whom I did a rotation project with a year ago and liked me as a potential graduate student member in his lab. After having that meeting, my PI seemed very unhappy and surprised that I had discussed that with a department chair. I certainly didn't ask a meeting to "switch" the lab but other professors and department chair simply "assumed" I will have to move the lab. Only my PI didn't think I am interested in switching the lab. I could clearly see that there are something is going on between my PI and department chair. Chair told me there won't be an extension and I have to hurry.

Although I like what I am working on now and my PI (as a person), now everything is awkward with my PI. We had a conversation, but she still insists that I will be able to submit and publish the papers in lower journal (meaning low impact factor journals) and no problem with graduating. But I don't understand how she can do it within a year when she doesn't have a long list of publication in 5 years of staying in the university. It didn't seem like it's going to happen so I compromised myself and decided dropping one project and focusing on finishing the first project. And I think I should switch the lab if I consider my stable academic career.

But I don't know how to start a conversation with my PI again. Department chair is actively looking after me and he told me he had a meeting with my PI, mentioning I will have to switch the lab. He told me to have a conversation with PI and sooner is better, although it seems that my PI is pretending she doesn't know anything believing that I am actively working on her things. How should I start a conversation? What kind of attitude I have to have when I talk to her to avoid awkwardness (no hurting)? Any advice?

Edited January 22, 2016 by tilex8595
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[ZeChocMoose]

I agree with your dept chair -- you should really switch.  Do you want to work for the professor that the dept chair suggested?  If so - I would meet with that person and get it sorted out.  Once that is done, I would meet with your PI and tell her that you are leaving the lab.  I honestly can't think of a good reason for you to stay.  Your PI, even if she does get an extension, will have no power in the dept and probably is not going to be a great resource for you on the market as people will know that she has been denied tenure.  You don't want to be affiliated with that as people are going to assume you won't be able to hack it either.  It sucks and it is harsh - but protect yourself.  I would just tell her straight forwardly and professionally that you have thought about it, but you have decided to leave the lab.  I really don't think you need to go into all the reasons as that might be awkward and uncomfortable.  I would then switch to talking about when is your last day and how she wants you to handle the transition of the projects i.e. who to give them to and how she wants you to document their current status.  

Your PI unfortunately seems in denial about the whole thing which I am sure is awful and horrible and throwing her life into chaos -- but that is not for you to solve or even really deal with.  I would believe your dept chair that she is not getting an extension.  I won't believe her when she says that your current unfinished projects are only going to take a year to publish.  Unless your review process is super speedy, this seems really, really unlikely especially since it sounds like she hasn't had much success with getting articles published and neither one of them are complete.

My advice is to mitigate this fall out by getting out asap and joining a lab that has a successful track record.

Edited January 22, 2016 by ZeChocMoose

[St Andrews Lynx]

It might help to email your soon-to-be former PI telling her that you want to meet and perhaps bullet point the things you want to talk about. That way you won't be dropping the news on them, they'll know in advance what you want to talk about. 

You should also have a chat with your new PI about how best to wrap up your current work. It might be that your new PI would be OK with you spending some time on finishing up your current projects. Or they'll tell you that you have to start work on new project(s) and focus exclusively on that. In either case, you can get a better understanding of how much you should be realistically doing with your former lab. 

It sounds like your former PI is trying to be optimistic, perhaps to save face. Which is why she sounded confident about getting an extension and getting your projects published. Just be polite but firm about what you are or are not willing to do. 

[tilex8595]

Thank you for your reply. I know it's normal that PI doesn't actively seek PhD students and try to have a conversation with them unless there is an emergency (for them). But our lab doesn't even have a weekly former lab meeting even though we are in the biology lab. This is how much we are lack of conversation.

The project that I am doing with her is going super well, oddly enough. It's not because we meet weekly and closely exam and investigate what we can do next systematically, it's because I do mostly independently (search the references, writing the method section, preparing the figures, coming up with hypothesis, analyzing data, building a model etc..). She just says "ok it's very good.. yes keep working on that. I would like to see that and that by the way..if you have time". Very ambiguous and not conclusive. This kind of conversation makes me think we are not "almost" done yet, but she is being optimistic and holding me up. I think she doesn't have a clue that I am leaving her lab. She seems very happy with my work. 

I am having a meeting with my future PI on Monday. I am going to ask him how to start a conversation and future plan. It's a rough start...

[fuzzylogician]

I doubt she is as clueless as you think, but this has got to be an incredibly difficult time for her, and staying positive in front of students (and in general) is one way of dealing with it. She needs to figure out what happens next in her life, and if she is planning to seek other employment in academia, it might still matter to her that as much comes out of current projects as possible. It sounds like she also doesn't know if she'll stay for another year, and as long as that is an option (and because it doesn't sound like there is another option, right now), she has to plan as if that's going to work out. 

That all said, you need to worry about your own future, so as others have suggested, first you want to line up your next PI, then discuss with him/her how to best deal with your current projects, then simply let your old PI know that you've changed PIs and this is what's going to be possible for you to do for her projects. I'm sure that this will be very hard for her, but you can't be responsible for that. Just be sure to thank her for her help and support during the time that you were in her lab, and to wish her luck and success in the future.

[tilex8595]

Hi fuzzylogician,

What you said are mostly very accurate. She doesn't know if she will be staying or getting an extension, and if she gets, how long. She is definitely being optimistic as if nothing has happened. I feel extremely bad and sad, and at the same time, I can't be responsible and need to do what's best for me and my family. I know she will do the same and expects the worse things as well. I will keep it posted after I finish talking to the new PI. 

I know this thing can happen to anybody here. I hope me posting my story on here helps to someone in the future.