AMA: Recent SAIS grad

[kb6]

Hi everyone - currently snowed in here in DC and running out of things to do on the Internet, so I figured I'd fire up my ole gradschoolcafe account! I graduated from SAIS last spring after having spent my first year in Bologna. I did an AMA in 2014 when I was still in Italy (linked below), and and figured I'd drop in to see if the current any of you current applicants had questions you'd like to ask.

So...feel free to ask me anything!

 

 

[Pichichi]

Also snowed in... 

Not too specific, but could you comment on your experiences being on both campuses? Differences in classes, student body, internships.. Whatever comes to mind.

If you've recently been employed - has SAIS been helpful at all in getting a job? 

edit - Thanks for doing this. I'm nearly out of things to do too

Edited January 23, 2016 by Pichichi

[manutdftw]

Thanks for returning. Could you also talk about two things - SAIS's student community and job prospects? Is the study body as tight knit and passionate as let's say Fletcher? Or is there more a "professional" feel to it? Also, regarding job prospects, how easy has it been for you and your friends to secure jobs post-graduation?

[loveglove]

Thanks for the AMA, kb6!

A few questions:

- What were you deciding between and how did you make the decision? Now that you're out, how do you think SAIS has helped you? How would you compare that to people you know in other similar programs?

- What is something you wish you knew when applying to graduate school or starting graduate school that you know now? Such as misconceptions, etc...

- How was the DC vibe at SAIS? 

[kb6]

Hi! 

I'll start with Bologna vs. DC.

 

Bologna vs. DC/DC vibe

Bologna pros: more academic (b/c fewer "practioner" professors and few people are doing internships/working); much more tight-knit student body (because everyone lives close to each other and typically knows no one in Bologna upon arrival, whereas in DC people live throughout the city/suburbs and many have their own pre-established social lives); European perspective on international affairs; better language instruction; opportunity to travel in Europe for both academic purposes and pleasure, as well as career trips; cost-of-living significantly lower than DC so even including extra traveling you might want to do/flights to and from the US, I easily spent 10-20% less money during my year in BO

Bologna cons: less class selection, especially in areas like finance/quant and Asia-focused courses, etc.; fewer internship opportunities (which again can be viewed as a positive if you want to focus on academics for a year); a slightly more "immature" feel to it (younger student body, a lot of partying on weekends)

DC pros: more class selection, especially in terms of quant; more internship opportunities; more "big name" faculty (although I find this better for bragging purposes rather than actual quality of instruction - I actually typically found "practioners" to run the WORST classes by far for so many reasons...); more speakers/conferences; more opportunities to network in field; more "mature" feel to it (student body is a bit older)

DC cons: I found non-quant DC courses to be less academically rigorous than Bologna; if you don't go to Bologna first and aren't super social/involved on campus it's quite a bit harder to make friends in DC; very expensive to live in DC which can be demoralizing; American-style language instruction (read: low standards)

In terms of the DC vibe, I think it's overall quite collegial and people can make friends if that's what they want, but much less of a bubble than Bologna was as people often have their own lives in the District and some students just come in for class and then leave. But it's definitely not a commuter vibe like GW or AU where most students are working full-time and then cramming in night classes. And if you want to be involved, however, there are a million student groups, publications, clubs, etc. and some departments are very tight-knit

SAIS community/job prospects

The SAIS community is second-to-none in that the school fosters a lot of SAIS pride/community spirit on a level I never experienced in my somewhat larger undergrad institution. The SAIS network is real and helped me to get a pretty prestigious internship while in DC, which was very useful when applying for jobs (where I also work with a few SAISers, although they weren't hiring managers).

Job prospects are good overall, but your mileage may vary depending on your background and what you're looking for. I found my full-time job in late summer, and it's a position that I truly love and that pays slightly above the average salary that SAIS published in its career outcomes, so I'm certainly happy and feel it was 100% worth it!

The vast majority of my friends had full-time gigs by early fall. The ones who have struggled a bit more typically fall into one or more of the following categories: non-Americans who had trouble finding employers to sponsor them (although many of these people end up going for jobs at World Bank/IMF/IDB etc. where they can get diplomatic visas); people with little-to-no work experience (some of them have to take slightly lower-level or lower-paid gigs than they had envisioned); people with unrealistic expectations of what they can reasonably get based on their academic backgrounds/previous work experience (numbers 2 and 3 overlap a lot). 

I think it's also important to think about the kind of job you want, the potential salary, and what kind of loan burden you may have. For example, I have some friends who work in development and haven't cracked 50k, which is extremely hard to live on in DC if you have any kind of debt and don't want to live with 5 roommates into your 30s. But I have friends who've gone into consulting or done more quant-y jobs making in the 80s and 90s, which obviously is more than comfortable. So I guess what I'm saying is that average outcomes/salaries can be misleading.

 

I'm working from home today so I'll save my response for loveglove for a little bit later!

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by kb6

[ub3rmensch]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm currently a Peace Corps Volunteer (straight from undergrad). I'll be applying soon. My concern is work experience and major. My major was a science and PC will be my only WE. I know I would like to work in a multilateral organization but I'm not dead set on anything. Do students at SAIS know exactly what they want (or pretty much) before matriculating? 

[went_away]

8 hours ago, ub3rmensch said:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm currently a Peace Corps Volunteer (straight from undergrad). I'll be applying soon. My concern is work experience and major. My major was a science and PC will be my only WE. I know I would like to work in a multilateral organization but I'm not dead set on anything. Do students at SAIS know exactly what they want (or pretty much) before matriculating? 

Here's some general advice from someone who very much has been there and done that in everything from making a 3-peat career change (industry, function, location) and having come back to the US - and DC specifically - after years abroad - Define exactly what you want to do...but broadly. What this means is to be focused like a laser on what you want to do (industry, function, specific employers), use contacts to leverage introductions in the fields you're interested in, and compete very aggressively for the most entry-level of positions (this means internships, even if you feel you're a bit old for these), and be willing to take what you can get even if it's very broadly related to your goals. So, in short you had better be have a clear idea of where you want to go even before day 1 of class. How this works in practice:

You might say - "I want to be a foreign service officer for USAID." - That's exactly what you want to do. Now define the field/industry broadly - international development. Now come up with a hundred or so jobs and organizations that will give you entry to that field - for-profit contractors, NGOs abroad, international news organizations, etc. Now work like crazy to do informational interviews in which you come across as curious, polished, and professional (these matter - those doing informational interviews could very well get called up as an informal reference if and when you later interview at an organization - people know each other and talk). Now....use your career services resources and your own expert googling skills to apply like mad for hundreds of internships and entry-level positions. Also....utilize your unique advantages - deep international knowledge, language, non-competitive status for federal jobs from peace corps. 

The good news is you absolutely can make the transition. I generally would NOT recommend those coming back from abroad to do a 1-year master's degree - unless you have a very high risk tolerance for potential stretches of unemployment. It takes minimum 2 years plus an internship just to get on the bottom rung of a new industry. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by went_away

[happygomucky]

Thanks for offering to AMA! I'm currently pulling together an application for the MIPP at SAIS. I wondered if you came across any MIPPers during your time there - how did they interact with the rest of the student body, were they social, etc? I'm older than most MPA students (early 30's) and quite established in my career, but I will be an international student moving to DC alone so I am a bit nervous about opportunities to socialise/make friends in DC. 

I have basically no interest in quant - I was attracted to SAIS because of the conflict management strand and mid-career offering. Any feedback on that specialisation would be really helpful if you have any!    

[Ben414]

5 hours ago, went_away said:

Here's some general advice from someone who very much has been there and done that in everything from making a 3-peat career change (industry, function, location) and having come back to the US - and DC specifically - after years abroad - Define exactly what you want to do...but broadly. What this means is to be focused like a laser on what you want to do (industry, function, specific employers), use contacts to leverage introductions in the fields you're interested in, and compete very aggressively for the most entry-level of positions (this means internships, even if you feel you're a bit old for these), and be willing to take what you can get even if it's very broadly related to your goals. So, in short you had better be have a clear idea of where you want to go even before day 1 of class. How this works in practice:

You might say - "I want to be a foreign service officer for USAID." - That's exactly what you want to do. Now define the field/industry broadly - international development. Now come up with a hundred or so jobs and organizations that will give you entry to that field - for-profit contractors, NGOs abroad, international news organizations, etc. Now work like crazy to do informational interviews in which you come across as curious, polished, and professional (these matter - those doing informational interviews could very well get called up as an informal reference if and when you later interview at an organization - people know each other and talk). Now....use your career services resources and your own expert googling skills to apply like mad for hundreds of internships and entry-level positions. Also....utilize your unique advantages - deep international knowledge, language, non-competitive status for federal jobs from peace corps. 

The good news is you absolutely can make the transition. I generally would NOT recommend those coming back from abroad to do a 1-year master's degree - unless you have a very high risk tolerance for potential stretches of unemployment. It takes minimum 2 years plus an internship just to get on the bottom rung of a new industry. 

This type of advice tends to be under-appreciated from my experience, but it's very good.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ben414

[The_Gibson]

Question for OP: How much quantitative course-work are students of every concentration required to take?

[kb6]

On 1/24/2016 at 10:23 PM, loveglove said:

Thanks for the AMA, kb6!

A few questions:

- What were you deciding between and how did you make the decision? Now that you're out, how do you think SAIS has helped you? How would you compare that to people you know in other similar programs?

- What is something you wish you knew when applying to graduate school or starting graduate school that you know now? Such as misconceptions, etc...

- How was the DC vibe at SAIS? 

 

Hi! Apologies for the delay. So I partially answered your first question in the last AMA, I'll copy some of that here and make a few edits now that it's almost 2 years later - wow!

I was deciding between SIPA, Fletcher, SFS, and a regional school which shall remain nameless lest I be too easily identified.  The regional school offered me a lot of money, but after visiting it, consulting mentors in the field, and putting in a lot of thought, I decided that the lesser debt wouldn't be worth the dimmed career prospects. SIPA was out b/c I just didn't get a good vibe when I was there (although I have a good friend at SIPA and he loves it), plus they offered me 0 dollaz. Fletcher just never intrigued me (although I never visited), and they offered me the same amount of $ as SAIS, so it was easy to cut. SFS offered me a token amount of money, but the program felt too small when I visited...Ultimately it came down to a question of money and fit.

I would say that whether SAIS can really help you depends on what direction you want to go in afterwards. For example, if you're really interested in defense or more economic analysis type stuff, SAIS really distinguishes you and is very connected in those fields. If you want to work for a non-profit, or in a non-quanty fed government role, there's less of a "SAIS advantage."

What do I wish I knew when applying to grad school...

I wish I had known not to stress so much, because I think most of us on this board are overachievers compared to the general population, and that one B- we got sophomore year is not going to sink us. 

But in terms of advice you might actually take  ...I wish I knew going into grad school what kind of coursework would help me get and then excel at jobs I might want upon graduation.  For example, I have ended up in a field where SAIS's famous corporate finance class has come in handy, but I didn't take that course until my second year, which meant I didn't have the opportunity to take follow-up classes that built on corporate finance as a pre-req. I think the take-away from this is that it's useful to have some concrete ideas of potential job targets going in, and then you can seek out the advice of professors and counselors about how to structure your coursework upon arrival. It's hard because your interests will probably change as you go through the program (mine certainly did!), but I think doing some legwork before you start will give you a good foundation to take advantage of all the resources at your disposal. 

[kb6]

On 1/27/2016 at 2:06 PM, happygomucky said:

Thanks for offering to AMA! I'm currently pulling together an application for the MIPP at SAIS. I wondered if you came across any MIPPers during your time there - how did they interact with the rest of the student body, were they social, etc? I'm older than most MPA students (early 30's) and quite established in my career, but I will be an international student moving to DC alone so I am a bit nervous about opportunities to socialise/make friends in DC. 

I have basically no interest in quant - I was attracted to SAIS because of the conflict management strand and mid-career offering. Any feedback on that specialisation would be really helpful if you have any!    

I came across plenty of MIPPers! You typically affiliate with a concentration, so you're not totally without a community, and I actually found that some of the MIPPers were often the most friendly and well-known people on campus, perhaps because of the confidence that comes with age  . In fact, the president of our Bologna student council was an MIPPer. Also, in DC MIPPers have a weekly happy hour so that they can network amongst themselves. 

As an MIPP student I believe you would not have the same kinds of quant requirements as MA students do -- I would double check this though.

I didn't do conflict management, but I have some good friends who did and I think they tended to like their courses, but sometimes complained that the program is not as well-funded as some of the bigger concentrations like strat or even some egional studies programs. Basically this means fewer perks (subsidized study trips and the like). But I'm repeating second-hand info here, so I would encourage you to reach out to the program to see if they can put you in touch with any former or current students to give you a more complete picture! 

[kb6]

On 2/9/2016 at 1:43 AM, The_Gibson said:

Question for OP: How much quantitative course-work are students of every concentration required to take?

We MA students had to take one quant class (like stats, econometrics, or corporate finance) and then four foundational econ classes (micro, macro, monetary theory, international trade theory). SAIS definitely attracts some people who are really interested in quant, but if you're not, that shouldn't scare you off. I have plenty of friends that addressed those classes as something to get through on their way to take classes on Chinese domestic politics, gender dynamics in the developing world, US Congress and foreign policy, European imperialism, etc. 

[kb6]

On 1/27/2016 at 5:23 AM, ub3rmensch said:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm currently a Peace Corps Volunteer (straight from undergrad). I'll be applying soon. My concern is work experience and major. My major was a science and PC will be my only WE. I know I would like to work in a multilateral organization but I'm not dead set on anything. Do students at SAIS know exactly what they want (or pretty much) before matriculating? 

I think some students go into grad school with a clear vision of the path they plan to take, but they're the minority and many of us change our minds regardless. I do agree with went_away in that doing a lot of research and developing your networking skills will go a long way as to helping you figure out what you want to do and how to get there. I also think that while our internship system is messed up in this country, the one advantage is it gives you the opportunity to see what different fields are like to work in. I think a lot of the time, people who have never worked in an office before will be pretty surprised when they get their first office job, especially after you get so much education and assume that you will end up being fulfilled by your work. 

 

 

[6speed!]

Many thanks for the AMA! I was wondering if you could comment perchance on the pros and cons of SAIS' Dupont Circle location and its lack of a traditional campus. I am looking at and weighing these factors in comparison to, say, Georgetown. Is it a major plus to be in the heart of things in DC, close to so many internship-offering organizations? Is it a drawback in terms of atmosphere to have classes isolated to a couple of buildings without the coherence of a "university" experience/campus? Is there any impact, for better or for worse, on socializing with and building friendships with classmates and fellow SAIS'ers due to the Dupont location? I realize that any school in DC is going to provide invaluable connections to the various institutions based in the District, but you do hear a lot of cross talk coming from both camps regarding the downtown vs. campus dynamics. Any and all thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks for your time. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by 6speed!

[pyrhuss]

I'd be really interested if you could tell us a bit more about your (or second-hand) experiences with SAIS career services in Bologna and DC. How approachable are they, especially given the relatively large student body? What kind of services do they offer? Is it satisfying? How easy is it to reach out to Alumni to build the network for you job search?

I'm also curious as to how much work experience the younger Bologna crowd can really bring to the table? And how that reflects/impacts class discussion.

[happygomucky]

On 3/1/2016 at 3:46 AM, kb6 said:

I came across plenty of MIPPers! You typically affiliate with a concentration, so you're not totally without a community, and I actually found that some of the MIPPers were often the most friendly and well-known people on campus, perhaps because of the confidence that comes with age  . In fact, the president of our Bologna student council was an MIPPer. Also, in DC MIPPers have a weekly happy hour so that they can network amongst themselves. 

Thank you! Really helpful and reassuring.  I also found my interview with a current student really useful - she mentioned the happy hour too! I suspect that the culture at SAIS may be a bit too narrow for me - seems to be heavily defence/corporate oriented - but I'll keep speaking to the program and will see what other acceptances come in.

i've noticed a lot of the below on these boards...I suspect they attract the more nervous types!

On 3/1/2016 at 3:39 AM, kb6 said:

I wish I had known not to stress so much, because I think most of us on this board are overachievers compared to the general population, and that one B- we got sophomore year is not going to sink us. 

[loveglove]

On 3/1/2016 at 11:39 AM, kb6 said:

 

 

Thanks for the informative response!

[kb6]

On 3/1/2016 at 6:34 PM, 6speed! said:

Many thanks for the AMA! I was wondering if you could comment perchance on the pros and cons of SAIS' Dupont Circle location and its lack of a traditional campus. I am looking at and weighing these factors in comparison to, say, Georgetown. Is it a major plus to be in the heart of things in DC, close to so many internship-offering organizations? Is it a drawback in terms of atmosphere to have classes isolated to a couple of buildings without the coherence of a "university" experience/campus? Is there any impact, for better or for worse, on socializing with and building friendships with classmates and fellow SAIS'ers due to the Dupont location? I realize that any school in DC is going to provide invaluable connections to the various institutions based in the District, but you do hear a lot of cross talk coming from both camps regarding the downtown vs. campus dynamics. Any and all thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks for your time. 

To be honest, this isn't something i thought about too terribly much. Since I went to Bologna, by the time I got to DC I had a whole posse of friends, and still managed to meet "DC people" through classes, events for my concentration, study trips, extra-curriculars, part-time campus job, the weekly SAIS happy hour, etc. SAIS is a very collegiate environment, and if you want to have a big group of SAIS friends you can probably make that happen without too much trouble. There are definitely some people who have their lives outside of SAIS and come to campus for class and leave. But that's the minority, and I imagine that could happen at Georgetown as well since it's located in DC and people may already be established in the city. It's probably a bit different at a school like Fletcher where I would imagine almost everyone moves there for school, but I couldn't tell you about that first-hand.

 

[kb6]

On 3/2/2016 at 2:01 AM, pyrhuss said:

I'd be really interested if you could tell us a bit more about your (or second-hand) experiences with SAIS career services in Bologna and DC. How approachable are they, especially given the relatively large student body? What kind of services do they offer? Is it satisfying? How easy is it to reach out to Alumni to build the network for you job search?

I'm also curious as to how much work experience the younger Bologna crowd can really bring to the table? And how that reflects/impacts class discussion.

On career services - I think they were accessible and decently helpful at both campuses overall (certainly miles better than at my undergrad, where i was handed a one-sheet primer on resumes and told to check monster.com), but this is not a business school situation where large companies are going to come and do seasonal recruiting and you have a job all tied up 6 months before you graduate. You're going to have to do some legwork, with the help of career services and staff members from your concentration.

I ended up finding my full-time job through the SAIS job listings site ("SAISWorks"), which career services collate, as did most of my friends. Before I got that position, career services helped connect me to a few alumni in fields that interested me, reviewed my resume, helped me brainstorm some potential target employers, etc. They bring in recruiters and representatives from different companies/organizations to give talks - I went to a few and some are definitely more helpful than others. I also think they run workshops on things like salary negotiation, but I never attended one. There was a career fair, but I found that pretty "meh." Personally, I found it was pretty easy to get an internship from Bologna, but I was connected to the position through my DC-based concentration. 

I have found SAIS alumni to be shockingly responsive. I don't think I've ever had one email or LinkedIn message go unanswered. You just need to know how to make use of the community. Even though I'm less than a year out, I have already had a few requests for coffee/requests to review applications to my company, etc. from current students and more than once I have been a little surprised at how maladroit some people can be when trying to network. Don't be that person who attaches his/her cover letter to a first contact email, asking a complete stranger to review it within 24 hrs! 

For your second question, I got to Bologna in my mid-20s, which felt pretty in the middle of the cohort there (I think the average starting age is 26 or 27). There were definitely some straight-out-of-undergrad types, some of whom were a lot more mature than others. It's hard to say how this affected class discussions, b/c there were also plenty of more experienced/knowledgeable people in all of my classes (and some very bright 22-year-olds!), but I do think Bologna skews younger on the whole just b/c there are fewer 33-year-olds who are willing to relocate across an ocean for 9 months. In a certain way, Bologna felt more academic (and European), whereas DC felt a lot more "practical"/career-oriented. So in Bologna there were lots of people who could go deep into analyzing Leviathan or The Wretched Earth, but fewer people who could be like "when I was serving outside of Fallujah in 2004..." Does that make sense? 

ETA: I think typical work experience in Bologna would be things like "3 years at non-profit," a LOT of peace corps, "4 years at random soul-sucking business or consulting job," "3 years at NGO in Africa or Asia," "5 years in random office job in home city and now want to get back to my true passion, IR," "2 years working for congressman," a few military, etc. Close to everyone, if not everyone, had lived abroad. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by kb6

[bsack]

is there any distinction made between students who go a full 2 years in nanjing or bologna, and the students that spend at least a year in DC? and does every degree program have access to SAISWorks?

Edited March 6, 2016 by bsack

[kb6]

On 3/6/2016 at 8:28 PM, bsack said:

is there any distinction made between students who go a full 2 years in nanjing or bologna, and the students that spend at least a year in DC? and does every degree program have access to SAISWorks?

People who do their entire degrees in Bologna receive a Master of Arts in International Affairs (MAIA), which involves writing a thesis. I think their requirements might be slightly different (maybe slightly less econ), but they take all their classes with the regular MA students (who form the bulk of the cohort in Bologna). All of the MAIA student I can think of off the top of my head were European, and many of them actually did a joint program where they spent one year at SAIS Bologna and other year at the Diplomatic Academy of Vienna or somewhere similar. Most found jobs in Europe, but one I know got a job in DC and another went to central Africa. The MAIA group is much smaller - maybe 8-12 students. Socially speaking, there is no distinction between MAIA and MA students in Bologna.

I'm not as familiar with Nanjing, but I think there are a number of programs there including a one-year certificate program, in addition to a 2.5 year program split between Nanjing and DC. 

Everyone has access to SAISWorks!

Let me know if that doesn't answer your question.

[Ellie75]

Thanks again for doing this! 

I was wondering if you could comment on the intensity of language classes, especially if you've ever taken summer classes!  I'm thinking of SAIS in the not-so-distant future and have been interested in the possibility of taking a summer language class in the evenings while continuing with my full-time job now to improve my language skills for career and grad school purposes.  How intense is the workload?  Is it worth the hefty price tag?

[6speed!]

On 3/4/2016 at 2:42 PM, kb6 said:

To be honest, this isn't something i thought about too terribly much. Since I went to Bologna, by the time I got to DC I had a whole posse of friends, and still managed to meet "DC people" through classes, events for my concentration, study trips, extra-curriculars, part-time campus job, the weekly SAIS happy hour, etc. SAIS is a very collegiate environment, and if you want to have a big group of SAIS friends you can probably make that happen without too much trouble. There are definitely some people who have their lives outside of SAIS and come to campus for class and leave. But that's the minority, and I imagine that could happen at Georgetown as well since it's located in DC and people may already be established in the city. It's probably a bit different at a school like Fletcher where I would imagine almost everyone moves there for school, but I couldn't tell you about that first-hand.

 

I appreciate the response! 

I have another query for you if you don't mind. I got into SAIS but I'm thinking of switching my concentration from General International Relations to either Strategic Studies or American Foreign Policy. I have concerns that General IR is decentralized, low on resources and group cohesion and basically lacks an identity, despite offering flexibility regarding your course selection. I've read that Strategic Studies is a strong concentration regarding both resources, cohort strength and networking, but I know little about the American Foreign Policy concentration and its dynamics. I'd appreciate any perspective or insight you have on these concentrations and their general strengths/weaknesses. Thanks a lot!

[SenNoodles]

Thanks for doing this! I'm very interested in SAIS so this is super helpful. A couple questions I've posted elsewhere as well but to which I'd love your thoughts:

I'm curious about how much work experience most of your peers have - the average number of years worked for the incoming class is listed as about 2-3 but the average age is 26, which doesn't seem to match up. I've worked for 4 years now and am interested in a program where my classmates have some (not necessarily significant but a decent amount) of real world experience.

Also, where do most people tend to live? Dupont Circle/downtown is so expensive but I also wouldn't want much of a commute. Do people live in Shaw/Bloomingdale/Columbia Heights?  Do they actually live near SAIS?

Thanks again!