Worried about funding

[historygradhopeful]

Hello all!  I'm looking at my potential graduate schools and must be missing something because I'm starting to psych myself out now.  At many of the schools I'm looking at (Washington, Penn State, Wisconsin, UNC, Hawaii, etc) the median time-to-degree is a little over 8 years.  While that time doesn't bother me, I'm worried about funding!  I know that it's common to be funded completely for at least four years for a Ph.D., but what happens then?  Are you left taking out student loans?  I have heard external funding is what you're supposed to do, but those are quite competitive and there's no guarantee that you'd be able to get them.  Am I just psyching myself out for no reason?  Thanks!

[tipmar]

As I understand it, most schools do have some internal funding options for students who are in later years (you do have to apply, but they tend to be far less competitive than external funding - hopefully). Sometimes you are able to apply for TAships (though some schools reserve these for recruitment packages). You should probably research/ ask about such funding options at any particular school that you are looking at.

Many schools do fund students for more than 4 years, 5-6 is probably the standard. I don't know your specific status, but some programs fund those entering with an MA for shorter periods. As for your specific school choices, I have been given offers by Penn State and Washington University (or are you referring to the University of Washington?),  and both were for more than 4 years (entering with an MA). You are welcome to PM me for the details.  

Edited February 7, 2016 by tipmar

[kyjin]

As tipmar mentioned, the standard is generally 5 years guaranteed funding. But don't fret; there is money to be had! External funding is always an option (Fulbright, SSRC, etc), and universities often offer graduate school-wide fellowships that you can apply for. For example, my school offers endowed fellowships and dissertation-finishing fellowships that are added onto your original package. TAships are also another option, as many schools are always in need of TAs and can offer funding that way. 

Also, I noticed you're doing East Asian History. I've found most East Asianists are done in 6-8 years, so it's not as dire as you think! We take a bit more than Americanists, but there is a lot more funding for us if you need to do research abroad or do more language work.  

[TMP]

Don't worry; there is plenty of funding for East Asianists.  We have quite a few East Asianists in my program and they have been able to coast compared to Americanists.  There are so many external funding and the East Studies Program on most campuses have their own funding too that you can apply for.

[historygradhopeful]

3 hours ago, tipmar said:

As I understand it, most schools do have some internal funding options for students who are in later years (you do have to apply, but they tend to be far less competitive than external funding - hopefully). Sometimes you are able to apply for TAships (though some schools reserve these for recruitment packages). You should probably research/ ask about such funding options at any particular school that you are looking at.

Many schools do fund students for more than 4 years, 5-6 is probably the standard. I don't know your specific status, but some programs fund those entering with an MA for shorter periods. As for your specific school choices, I have been given offers by Penn State and Washington University (or are you referring to the University of Washington?),  and both were for more than 4 years (entering with an MA). You are welcome to PM me for the details.  

I'm looking at University of Washington in Seattle.  I think I'm looking at the 4 years of funding since I've already received my MA.  Thanks for your input.

[historygradhopeful]

1 hour ago, kyjin said:

As tipmar mentioned, the standard is generally 5 years guaranteed funding. But don't fret; there is money to be had! External funding is always an option (Fulbright, SSRC, etc), and universities often offer graduate school-wide fellowships that you can apply for. For example, my school offers endowed fellowships and dissertation-finishing fellowships that are added onto your original package. TAships are also another option, as many schools are always in need of TAs and can offer funding that way. 

Also, I noticed you're doing East Asian History. I've found most East Asianists are done in 6-8 years, so it's not as dire as you think! We take a bit more than Americanists, but there is a lot more funding for us if you need to do research abroad or do more language work.  

Thanks for your input!  I think that I'm just worried about nothing and letting the old trope about how grad students get put in a horrible economic hole get to me.

[ashiepoo72]

Even for people entering with an MA the PhD takes longer than 4 years--one program gave me the same funding offer, so they wanted coursework done in 2, comps and dissertation and language requirements and minors done in 2.5 (so mostly during the coursework phase) and 1.5 years to do research and write the dissertation. Some people can do that--i knew I couldn't, being that my project is transnational (I probably couldn't even if all my research was in the US to be honest). If you have a 5-year funding offer from somewhere else but really want to go to a program that only offered 4, I would contact your potential adviser and/or the DGS and let them know you would choose their program for sure, but having received an offer of 5 years at another program, are concerned and want to know if they can match it. I know a girl who did this last year and got the additional year. Obviously only do this if you'd really take the program's offer if they up your funding.

[historygradhopeful]

2 minutes ago, ashiepoo72 said:

Even for people entering with an MA the PhD takes longer than 4 years--one program gave me the same funding offer, so they wanted coursework done in 2, comps and dissertation and language requirements and minors done in 2.5 (so mostly during the coursework phase) and 1.5 years to do research and write the dissertation. Some people can do that--i knew I couldn't, being that my project is transnational (I probably couldn't even if all my research was in the US to be honest). If you have a 5-year funding offer from somewhere else but really want to go to a program that only offered 4, I would contact your potential adviser and/or the DGS and let them know you would choose their program for sure, but having received an offer of 5 years at another program, are concerned and want to know if they can match it. I know a girl who did this last year and got the additional year. Obviously only do this if you'd really take the program's offer if they up your funding.

This is a good point and I agree with you.  I'm just nervous because it seems that the median time to degree is EIGHT years, not just five.  What happens for those other three?  TAships like some other people mentioned here work, as do external grants (fullbrights, etc), but TAships pay very little compared to a full fellowship and it's very difficult to secure enough funding via external methods.  What's your take on that?

[ashiepoo72]

It was my experience that top ranked programs funded more, not less, or at least funded 5 years.

Everyone should be applying for external funds no matter what their funding is, these look great on CVs when you're on the job market. Additionally, many programs have internal dissertation fellowships for which you can apply, and there are external ones as well. My program funds 5 years outright, but part of the reason I chose it was that grad students told me getting a 6th year is very easy, and I came in with a first-year fellowship so that means I'm eligible for a 7th. These additional years would be funded as TAships. My experience in the UC system is that TAships actually aren't THAT much less than what I get monthly via fellowship, not enough of a difference to illicit concern that I won't survive on a TA salary. Depending on the department, there are internal funds for research and conferences as well, and there are many external grants for the same.

[TMP]

3 hours ago, historygradhopeful said:

This is a good point and I agree with you.  I'm just nervous because it seems that the median time to degree is EIGHT years, not just five.  What happens for those other three?  TAships like some other people mentioned here work, as do external grants (fullbrights, etc), but TAships pay very little compared to a full fellowship and it's very difficult to secure enough funding via external methods.  What's your take on that?

People will then find an outside job and work while writing their dissertations.  Or take out loans.  It comes down to how badly you want to finish and get the three letters after your name.

[dr. t]

7 hours ago, historygradhopeful said:

I'm looking at University of Washington in Seattle.  I think I'm looking at the 4 years of funding since I've already received my MA.  Thanks for your input.

I wouldn't take that deal. In fact, I didn't.

[historygradhopeful]

1 minute ago, telkanuru said:

I wouldn't take that deal. In fact, I didn't.

What did you take, then?

[dr. t]

A 5 year package which would guarantee a 6th if I got a Fullbright etc. to cover one of those 5, with the possibility of 7 in dire need.

I get that I had some options not universally available, but I would definitely ask some pointed questions when you go to visit about how they expect their students to fund the last 2-3 years of their degree. Remember also that state schools tend to demand a heavier teaching load from their graduate students, exacerbating the problem.

Edited February 8, 2016 by telkanuru

[rising_star]

21 hours ago, historygradhopeful said:

Hello all!  I'm looking at my potential graduate schools and must be missing something because I'm starting to psych myself out now.  At many of the schools I'm looking at (Washington, Penn State, Wisconsin, UNC, Hawaii, etc) the median time-to-degree is a little over 8 years.  While that time doesn't bother me, I'm worried about funding!  I know that it's common to be funded completely for at least four years for a Ph.D., but what happens then?  Are you left taking out student loans?  I have heard external funding is what you're supposed to do, but those are quite competitive and there's no guarantee that you'd be able to get them.  Am I just psyching myself out for no reason?  Thanks!

There are also dissertation completion (aka, writing up) fellowships. Some are university-wide (so internal) and others are national (external). Getting one of these can free you up to write and apply for jobs in your last year.

That said, I don't know that any of my friends in history programs have taken 8 years to finish. Ideally, you'll finish sooner...

[dr. t]

10 minutes ago, rising_star said:

That said, I don't know that any of my friends in history programs have taken 8 years to finish. Ideally, you'll finish sooner...

This is going to vary a lot based on TA load and subfield. It's a constant and near-universal complaint from medievalists that the Americanists in the department don't understand why their students take so long to finish. Hint: it's the languages and the overseas archives.

Edited February 8, 2016 by telkanuru

[kyjin]

12 minutes ago, rising_star said:

That said, I don't know that any of my friends in history programs have taken 8 years to finish. Ideally, you'll finish sooner...

I know a few, also those who reached their 8th year and ultimately didn't finish. But in my experience, those that take 8 years are medievalists and occasionally Asianists, which as telkanuru mentoned, comes down to languages. The Asianist I knew who took 8 didn't come in with an MA; others in my particular subfield have finished in 6 or 7 with an MA, and thus more language experience. (I'm personally aiming for 6.) 

[rising_star]

Totally true that it's based on subfields and languages. But, my friends include people working on medieval Islamic history, 1500s eastern African history, a few Americanists, several Mexican and/or Latin American historians, a small handful of Russian historians, and Atlantic World stuff. The medieval person was also at a state institution so there were multiple semesters of teaching and some stress over summer funding. They did all know their main languages going in (and, in some cases, did summer programs to shore up those languages) and not all had a MA in advance. My point is that you can find ways to get through more quickly, which could mean being strategic about the languages and archives, finding archives to work in which are partially digitized already, etc.

But, my sense from PhD students across fields, is that if you plan for 8 years, then it'll take you 8 years. Better to plan for 6 years and let the work expand if you have additional funding, etc. I originally planned on 4-5 years, which didn't exactly work out for me. The shorter timeframe meant that I had two different versions of my dissertation in mind and that I planned for fieldwork/funding to happen in multiple different ways depending on how the funding situation worked out for me. It's best to be prepared for a variety of circumstances, regardless of what the funding package you accept looks like.