Ranking vs. Fit

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

Hi All,

I am sure others may have asked this question, but I am going to ask it anyway as it is a question I am wrestling with. So of the universities I have been admitted to, I have narrowed it down to three. Two are top 15, the other is top 25. With that said, the first two - UNC and Ohio State - are ranking well and have a reputation in my field. The other, Stony Brook, is also good, just not as highly ranked as the others. What makes this decision difficult is that the Stony Brook program is probably the best fit in that it is tailored to my interests to a tee. It also has well-known people. But, the other two also have a good fit, just not as good. So it really is a battle of ranking vs. fit. Does anybody have any thoughts on how to choose? Or any experience? I can provide further details if needed.

As always, Thanks for the help!

[Neist]

I can only comment what I'd do, but...

I'd go to Stony Brook. In theory you want to become an expert in your field of interests, right? And you'll probably grow most as a scholar in an environment that specifically nurtures your interests, right?

If you were talking a 85th ranked program it might be another matter, but a top 25 program is hardly what I'd call low-ranking.

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

8 minutes ago, Neist said:

I can only comment what I'd do, but...

I'd go to Stony Brook. In theory you want to become an expert in your field of interests, right? And you'll probably grow most as a scholar in an environment that specifically nurtures your interests, right?

If you were talking a 85th ranked program it might be another matter, but a top 25 program is hardly what I'd call low-ranking.

Thanks for the input. I too am leaning Stony Brook. BTW my area of interest is political psychology so Stony Brook is like a hub for that. However, UNC also has a strong political behavior bent and some very well known people. So it is so hard to decide. 

[rising_star]

I would like at the placement, publication, and funding track record of each of the people you're considering working with. Have their students gotten the grants which you'll want/need for your research? Are they publishing at a pace you'd like to meet or surpass? Are their publications in well-known journals? Are the PhD students of those profs getting jobs at the places you'd like to end up? And, if that doesn't help, then I'd take the best overall funding package.

[elw]

Few thoughts since I'm in the... same exact boat with Stony Brook.

Stony Brook's placements are very strong and faculty publications are top-notch in the political psychology subfield (as the OP knows, this is mostly for others' reference). It was definitely one of my top choices when I began this process last fall, and it remains that today. I would be quite interested in a political psychology/behavior ranking that took into consideration placements and publications: Stony Brook would be 'top five' in such a listing, in my opinion, and people in the discipline know this. The program is not low ranked for its specialization.

The caveat that I (and my advisors) have with Stony Brook is its "niche-yness". Question to ask: Are you absolutely certain this is the trajectory you will follow? Are you really into experimental methods? Is there any chance your research interests change over time?

Universities and other potential employers know what they're getting when they consider a Stony Brook graduate. That can potentially be double-edged.

I know of a current Stony Brook student here, and another first-year who decided against Stony Brook in favor of an alternate program (UVA) that you may wish to reach out to.

See you at the open house!

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by elwright

[PizzaCat93]

I'm in the same boat but with Northwestern and Ohio State (still waiting on one top-5, but not very hopeful). Northwestern is an extremely good fit for me, and the funding package is very good. However, it is not as highly ranked as Ohio State, and from what I can tell, it has a sort of niche-yness as well. I've heard it described as the qualitative version of Rochester (which I love, but am cognizant of the job market as well as the quant bias of the discipline). Any input? 

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

10 minutes ago, elwright said:

Few thoughts since I'm in the... same exact boat with Stony Brook.

Stony Brook's placements are very strong and faculty publications are top-notch in the political psychology subfield (as the OP knows, this is mostly for others' reference). It was definitely one of my top choices when I began this process last fall, and it remains that today. I would be quite interested in a political psychology/behavior ranking that took into consideration placements and publications: Stony Brook would be 'top five' in such a listing, in my opinion, and people in the discipline know this. The program is not low ranked for its specialization.

The caveat that I (and my advisors) have with Stony Brook is its "niche-yness". Question to ask: Are you absolutely certain this is the trajectory you will follow? Are you really into experimental methods? Is there any chance your research interests change over time?

Universities and other potential employers know what they're getting when they consider a Stony Brook graduate. That can potentially be double-edged.

I know of a current Stony Brook student here, and another first-year who decided against Stony Brook in favor of an alternate program (UVA) that you may wish to reach out to.

See you at the open house!

 

Hi elwright,

You make good points that I have also considered. i am chatting with a POI at UNC that is making the same points about Stony Brook in that they emphasize depth, but not breadth (i.e. you focus almost exclusively on political psychology and not much else, which is good and bad). Essentially, you are being trained as a psychologist who emphasizes political applications. Other universities like UNC would train you more as a political scientist who knows a lot about psychology. So this a trade off that must be made. I think I will make a pros and cons list too. If you would like, I can message you if you have any questions or just post them here. Always nice to hear from a person facing a similar problem.

 

3 minutes ago, PizzaCat93 said:

I'm in the same boat but with Northwestern and Ohio State (still waiting on one top-5, but not very hopeful). Northwestern is an extremely good fit for me, and the funding package is very good. However, it is not as highly ranked as Ohio State, and from what I can tell, it has a sort of niche-yness as well. I've heard it described as the qualitative version of Rochester (which I love, but am cognizant of the job market as well as the quant bias of the discipline). Any input? 

Hi PizzaCat93,

What I would recommend is that if you had to choose between Northwestern and Ohio State, I would go for Northwestern. Here is my thinking: you mention that they have an excellent fit (if you mind sharing, what is your area of interest?) and give you a good funding package, which is a bonus. On the Ohio State front, they may be top ranked, but so is Northwestern. Every list I have seen of top 20-25 schools, Northwestern is on that list. So if you combine the fit, funding, and the pretty good ranking, Northwestern makes sense. I wouldn't make a definitive decision until after you have visited. Feel free to ask anything else. All the best!!

[PizzaCat93]

Sorry, I forgot to say, I'm CP, interested in religion/secularism and politics. This is a relatively rare interest, and Ohio State has no one working on this (although a few POIs I could work with, if I take a broader view). There are 2-3 at Northwestern with very close interests, and I have already been contacted by one POI who is interested in working with me. I am leaning towards Northwestern, so thanks for the input. I was just uncertain, as I have had a couple professors tell me that ranking is the utmost importance. However, I think the difference between 15 and 20 is fairly minimal. 

[elw]

NRC r-based rankings show a greater discrepancy between Northwestern and OSU, for what it's worth. The printout I have places Northwestern at #30 (high) and #55 (low) and Ohio State at #7 (high), #20 (low). PHDs.org (also NRC, but apparently a different year) is 9-22 and 24-42, respectively.

Not to get hung up on rankings. Other considerations: For better or worse, Northwestern's "private" status carries a prestige boost over OSU, which faculty from the latter will readily admit.

Ultimately, the three of us are in really good positions, and I think our visits to each university will be illuminating.

 

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

8 minutes ago, PizzaCat93 said:

Sorry, I forgot to say, I'm CP, interested in religion/secularism and politics. This is a relatively rare interest, and Ohio State has no one working on this (although a few POIs I could work with, if I take a broader view). There are 2-3 at Northwestern with very close interests, and I have already been contacted by one POI who is interested in working with me. I am leaning towards Northwestern, so thanks for the input. I was just uncertain, as I have had a couple professors tell me that ranking is the utmost importance. However, I think the difference between 15 and 20 is fairly minimal. 

That is an interesting field of study. As far as the ranking question goes, I have mixed reactions and feelings. Of course, ranking matters to a degree....But so too does fit and funding. Take for example, the above discussion on Stony Brook. Stony Brook is not ranked as high as others, except for political psychology. However, their graduates have found pretty good success in landing tenure-track jobs, better than some high ranked institutions. But, the question is if I specialize in political psychology to such a degree that it diminishes the expertise in related fields, will that turn off potential employers? I do not know the answer to that question. So I would definitely find a program that fits good, i.e. what you are really interested in, but also a program where you can become knowledgeable in other related fields to increase your marketable returns. That's my opinion of late. i am attaching an article too on ranking that may help. Best!!   

rankings_paper.pdf

[elw]

5 minutes ago, mwcain said:

rankings_paper.pdf

"The page you are trying to access is not available for your account."
 

[PizzaCat93]

5 minutes ago, mwcain said:

That is an interesting field of study. As far as the ranking question goes, I have mixed reactions and feelings. Of course, ranking matters to a degree....But so too does fit and funding. Take for example, the above discussion on Stony Brook. Stony Brook is not ranked as high as others, except for political psychology. However, their graduates have found pretty good success in landing tenure-track jobs, better than some high ranked institutions. But, the question is if I specialize in political psychology to such a degree that it diminishes the expertise in related fields, will that turn off potential employers? I do not know the answer to that question. So I would definitely find a program that fits good, i.e. what you are really interested in, but also a program where you can become knowledgeable in other related fields to increase your marketable returns. That's my opinion of late. i am attaching an article too on ranking that may help. Best!!   

rankings_paper.pdf

Thanks again! I cannot access that article, says I don't have permission. Could you give me the citation or otherwise make it accessible? 

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

Sorry about that. Here is the url for the paper. I am also posting another paper that may help. 

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~gillum/rankings_paper.pdf

https://chroniclevitae.com/people/723-robert-l-oprisko/profile/featured_documents/49/download

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

20 minutes ago, elwright said:

"The page you are trying to access is not available for your account."
 

 

19 minutes ago, PizzaCat93 said:

Thanks again! I cannot access that article, says I don't have permission. Could you give me the citation or otherwise make it accessible? 

I hope those URLs worked.

[PizzaCat93]

4 minutes ago, mwcain said:

 

I hope those URLs worked.

They worked, thanks!!

[svent]

I may be facing a similar situation. Top 15 vs. top 35-40 (Masters program, so research/funding isn't the only concern). Top 15 has a possibility of TAship, but seems pretty unlikely, so it'll be more expensive, and I'll be sitting in hours of traffic every day, which will wear on me. Also in a very expensive area. Top 40 is in a cheap area with full funding, top 35 has a pretty good chance of funding semester-to-semester but no guarantee (and somewhat expensive area). Top 35 probably is probably best match, research-wise (and I've taken a couple classes there, so I know I'd feel comfortable in the department). I don't really know why I applied to top 15 anyway... I aced the GRE (did way better than expected), and basically applied on a whim. Then I happened to get in. But it has a bigger name, which helps with interviews, at least for a first job. It's hard to say if top 15 or top 40 is a better fit, research/coursework-wise. There's also part of me feeling imposter syndrome... my undergrad school wasn't even top 50, so jumping up to top 15 feels like a huge jump, overwhelming even.

Might get into another top 15 with slightly better fit than top 15 offer I already have in a slightly less expensive, much less trafficked area. I expect a rejection though.

Sorry to hijack a bit.

Edit: I know the rankings are based on research, not on industry, but I think the industry rankings, if there were such a thing, would be fairly similar.

Edited February 12, 2016 by svent

[Markerz]

For me its more to the effect of research fit vs everything. I have a school thats the perfect research fit for me but their ranking is terrible, 140ish or less, their location is terrible, both in terms of weather and in terms of potential job hunting later I guess they also have a nice funding package for me. On the other hand I have a much more highly ranked school with a much nicer location but I would have to work very very hard to find research in alignment with my goals. The resources are there but no one seems to be doing it.