Studying Abroad During MPA/MA

[monocle]

I just want to get others' inputs and thoughts on studying at an overseas institution for one year of the two year Master's programs.

I would really love to take advantage of some of the dual degree opportunities offered by the MA/MPA/MPP programs to which I have applied. For example, Columbia SIPA's dual degree programs with Natl Univ of Singapore or Univ of Tokyo.. That being said,  my reasons are more personal than practical. I wonder if it would be "worth it."

My main fear is that studying abroad for one year means one fewer year at Columbia.. one year of not developing my professional network within SIPA, and possibly dealing with a completely different job hunt/recruitment cycle. I'm deeply skeptical of some of the career benefits non-US master's degrees (I think i have a few posts where I mention my skepticism on GC). But that year abroad could possibly be used to study how other countries implement their policy, and start learning an important language like Mandarin or Japanese (and that matters Right guys? right? right???). 

I like the idea of SAIS's MA-ML dual degree with Tsinghua because it has the first year in China, where I would be able to take invaluable lessons in intensive Chinese language learning.. and then being able to go back to Washington and network and get the best possible career outcome.

Fletcher also offers many opportunities, like taking a term in Geneva...

What's the consensus? are these fluff programs designed to attract people that don't really change in terms of initial employment? Does it add an extra patina to that shiny ivy league preftige degree that we all want? Is the personal experience worth the possible opportunity cost of not having continuity with professors and classmates at your home university?

[loveglove]

9 hours ago, monocle said:

I just want to get others' inputs and thoughts on studying at an overseas institution for one year of the two year Master's programs.

I would really love to take advantage of some of the dual degree opportunities offered by the MA/MPA/MPP programs to which I have applied. For example, Columbia SIPA's dual degree programs with Natl Univ of Singapore or Univ of Tokyo.. That being said,  my reasons are more personal than practical. I wonder if it would be "worth it."

My main fear is that studying abroad for one year means one fewer year at Columbia.. one year of not developing my professional network within SIPA, and possibly dealing with a completely different job hunt/recruitment cycle. I'm deeply skeptical of some of the career benefits non-US master's degrees (I think i have a few posts where I mention my skepticism on GC). But that year abroad could possibly be used to study how other countries implement their policy, and start learning an important language like Mandarin or Japanese (and that matters Right guys? right? right???). 

I like the idea of SAIS's MA-ML dual degree with Tsinghua because it has the first year in China, where I would be able to take invaluable lessons in intensive Chinese language learning.. and then being able to go back to Washington and network and get the best possible career outcome.

Fletcher also offers many opportunities, like taking a term in Geneva...

What's the consensus? are these fluff programs designed to attract people that don't really change in terms of initial employment? Does it add an extra patina to that shiny ivy league preftige degree that we all want? Is the personal experience worth the possible opportunity cost of not having continuity with professors and classmates at your home university?

Based on most of what I've heard in each of these programs, they seem to be a bit fluffy, but each also has its own specific benefits (smaller community, certain concentrations may be benefitted, language study, networking abroad, etc.) If you haven't done a lot of networking in the field, haven't had the benefit of a Columbia/SAIS/etc/-like education, or have already been abroad already for a significant amount of time, then it might be worth your time to just do 2 years in a US institution. Also, remember you can always spend a summer abroad interning and some programs offer short-term exchanges to do consulting projects and the like. With an IR/MPP degree you may also have the opportunity to work abroad after graduation. Ultimately it depends on what your goals are and what your network/profile already looks like.

Edited February 14, 2016 by loveglove

[monocle]

That's my general understanding.. Considering I will have been abroad for 2 and a half years, the only advantages I see are a head start on languages I plan to learn anyways and cool personal experience.

From my encounters where I currently live, while it certainly helps to know the local language to get by, it is not necessarily an advantage for getting a job at one of the multilateral organizations or development organizations.

[loveglove]

2 hours ago, monocle said:

That's my general understanding.. Considering I will have been abroad for 2 and a half years, the only advantages I see are a head start on languages I plan to learn anyways and cool personal experience.

From my encounters where I currently live, while it certainly helps to know the local language to get by, it is not necessarily an advantage for getting a job at one of the multilateral organizations or development organizations.

I'm on a similar boat (American abroad for a while), so I may be biased, but this is how I think about it: If you're already abroad, unless you have a very specific goal (Singaporean-American relations for instance, and doing the dual degree between Columbia and NUS), I would say being back in the US a while. It's hard to transition directly back into a job in the US and a two-year masters is the perfect time and experience not only to transition (personally, academically, culturally, etc.), but to make extra contacts back home and position yourself in a way where you're as desirable at home as you could be abroad. 

[kaseyleigh]

I'm applying for a just one-year program so I wouldn't have time to study abroad again anyway, but I am seriously considering doing at least one of the short-term courses abroad if I get in. That may be something to look into at your program as well! They are only for a little over a week or so, so you wouldn't be leaving for a significant period of time, but still give you a really cool experience, something interesting to add to your resume, etc. 

[supbla20]

I'm a SIPA student currently abroad and doing a dual degree. I don't normally post here, but I realize that there is very little information online about the dual degrees out there and I hope I can clear some stuff up.

First of all, it's not a "fluff" thing. In fact I see almost no downside to it at all. You graduate with a degree from two institutions and the standards are basically uniform across schools in the GPPN network - which is what SIPA calls the network of partner schools . I am an American and I have the added bonus of being able to automatically get a work permit in the country I am currently studying at the conclusion of my master's degree if I so choose. Additionally I can immerse myself into the local language here in a way that I cannot at SIPA (although admittedly, the language of instruction at the GPPN schools is English, so that makes a focus on a foreign language a little more tough due to time constraints). Also I am able to take advantage of two university networks and two sets of resources. I have a broader transnational policy perspective due to exposure to two separate learning and teaching styles.

Additionally, there are semi-secret SIPA scholarships that offer a very generous amount of funding for students going to several of its partner school sites. These are not advertised, but every single one of the SIPA students where I am currently studying are completely fully funded. At my site that means that not only is tuition funded but so is housing and everything else. Also, you are honestly treated very well as a SIPA student. The relationship with Columbia is extremely important for the other GPPN schools.

The only downside I see is if you want to work in the US at the conclusion of your studies, MAYBE you will lose out a little bit on connections in the United States if you go abroad. But I am making my own connections here, so I think the connection argument is a red herring. I can also keep in touch with my SIPA contacts. It is really not that hard with the Internet.

I realize that there are other schools that have kind of similar programs like Tufts and SAIS, but in my opinion SIPA is the best option if this is what you're interested in. For instance, I considered going to Fletcher, but their partner school programs were rather badly coordinated and integrated with the Fletcher curriculum, in my opinion. Also, the money thing is huge.

Anyway, your experience may vary, but that is my two cents.

Edited February 24, 2016 by supbla20

[monocle]

2 hours ago, supbla20 said:

automatically get a work permit in the country I am currently studying at the conclusion of my master's degree if I so choose.

Holy shit, that is a big perk. Thank you for posting! Also I have questions for you. haha

May I ask in which program you're studying? I'm most interested in UTokyo and Singapore.

Is it true that most who apply to the programs get in?

What are you looking at for jobs and salaries? How much work experience did you have before?

My biggest concern is the employment aspect, above everything else. The experience (cultural and academic) seem amazing, which is why I'm interested. But like you said, there's precious little information about those who go through the dual degree programs (and what I'm most interested in is where they work, how many were empoyed immediately after graduation, and how much they make)

[supbla20]

I don't want to say where I am exactly because there are so few of us here and I would be easily identifiable. I can say that it is not Tokyo or Singapore. I forgot to mention another downside - we have to write a thesis at my site, which I have thoroughly hated. SIPA has a different capstone requirement where you work with a realworld organization and consult for them. I would have rather done that, but the thesis is a requirement here. Some people may like the thesis, so it depends on your interests. I think some schools mandate a thesis and others have something similar to the SIPA capstone.

The only programs that seem competitive and which I heard of people being rejected from are London and Paris. The rest you can basically get into if you have a pulse and can string a few sentences together. You also need a 3.0 GPA to apply, but you need a 3.0 to graduate from SIPA anyway, so it isn't hard to get.

I already had a job lined up when I started grad school, so I haven't had to job hunt. That may make me a special case, but my fellow dual degree classmates seem to be applying for and getting interviews for the standard jobs that other SIPA students get, like consulting, energy etc. I don't have stats on where people from the dual degree programs end up specifically, but I would just look at the general stats SIPA has or the stats for universities you are interested in spending year two in. From what I have seen, they are similar to dual degree students. The other thing to remember is SIPA career services doesn't have a great reputation, but career services at the school I am at are much more intimate and helpful, so in some way it may be an advantage being abroad in terms of getting career help. That's just my experience at this school though, so I don't know what the other GPPN schools' career services are like.

Of course, it all depends on your personal situation and I am skeptical that a dual degree per-se will make you more competitive for anything. Being abroad may just open up some different opportunities, and will make it much easier to work in the local market post graduation if you are interested in that. In some cases, I if you don't have language skills, being at certain sites could make the job hunt more stressful though. For example, to work in Brazil or Germany you basically need to speak the local language. You should not expect to learn a local language from scratch during your year abroad since your master's degree classes will all be in English.

Again, though, while i acknowledge the main downside that you will have weaker SIPA/USA connections if you do this, I don't see that much of a downside to the dual degrees and it really puzzles me that so few people take advantage of this opportunity, which I have found amazing. On the other hand, I know I sound like a cheerleader for the dual degrees - and everyone's situation is different so it might or might not be for you.

Edited February 24, 2016 by supbla20

[kd7432]

Hi Guys.

I've been accepted to Duke Sanford, but will have to pay about $80k over two years. I have also been accepted at NUS for the MPP with a full scholarship. I'm torn between the two and I'm wondering how to decide. I would ideally like to work on the research side of policy on international development (so think tanks, World Bank, UNDP etc). My plan with Duke was to then work in Washington DC. 

Does anyone where and what sort of jobs NUS grads get? How is their reputation in the job market?

Which one of Duke and NUS is more prestigious?

Also, how competitive is getting into the dual-degree program for SIPA / LSE from NUS?

Would really appreciate your help. 

[kd7432]

On 2/24/2016 at 6:03 PM, supbla20 said:

I'm a SIPA student currently abroad and doing a dual degree. I don't normally post here, but I realize that there is very little information online about the dual degrees out there and I hope I can clear some stuff up.

 

Hey maybe you could provide some insight too