How Do Foreign MA Programs look to American PhDs?

[Nom-Nom Chomsky]

Hello everyone. I was wondering if people could give me feedback on how top and mid tier philosophy PhD programs in the US look at people with a Masters from overseas.

Specifically, I was wondering if anyone has any particular positions of the Jean Nicod Institute, and/or the Berlin School of Mind and Brain. These are my "dream programs," but I am concerned that American departments will be unfamiliar with and thus indifferent toward students coming in from those institutions.

Any commentary is greatly appreciated.  

 

 

[Nicholassss]

Hi Nom-Nom Chomsky and everyone, greetings!

I'm also interested in views of the States PhD program toward applicants with an Overseas MA/BA. But my worry would be that if the States program would be biased toward certain continental schools, whilst these schools do offer analytic courses in their BA/MA programs. Any comments would be appreciated. X

[pecado]

I really did not understand both questions.

[Nom-Nom Chomsky]

pecado, I apologize for not being more specific. I am essentially asking if anyone, yourself included, is aware of if American (Philosophy) PhD programs look at students coming from celebrated European MA programs as though they are on an equal footing (just as competitive/impressive) as MA students coming from celebrated American programs, or if if such programs are likely to be seen as inferior to American programs, or at least less noteworthy insofar that they are, perhaps, not well known to the members of admissions committees. As noted above, I am particularly interested in whether or not anyone is aware of whether or not top tier American programs look favorably, indifferently, or negatively upon students coming from Institut Jean Nicod and/or the Berlin School of Mind and Brain, both of which are excellent research institutions that are purely analytical and scientific, and, moreover, teach some if not all of their courses in English.  

Nicholassss, I spent the past semester studying at the University of Geneva (an overwhelmingly analytic institution that is a bit hostile to continental philosophy), and might be able to answer your question somewhat. Many of the people with whom I worked complained that the Anglophone world more or less overlooks institutions that are located outside the US and UK. This much can be seen via Brian Leiter's (in)famous blog, and other ranking lists, all of which doubtlessly privilege US/UK institutions (particularly American ones). I'm wary of overemphasizing the continental/analytic divide, but it might be of relevance here. I imagine that programs that have a number of faculty focusing upon the continental/hermeneutic tradition, such as the University of Chicago and Emory University, will not disapprove of a degree from a European institution that focuses on the history of philosophy and figures such as Cassirer, Nietzsche, Foucault, Merleau Ponty, Habermas, and etc.  If you intend to apply to those sorts of programs, I don't think it would hurt you to get an MA in Europe; though, whether or not it would really help your chances would probably depend upon the quality and reputation of the institution you get your MA from. However, if you get an MA from an institution that focuses upon continental philosophy, and then apply to places like NYU or MIT, it'll probably hurt your chances. Having said that, there are a number of great universities on the continent that focus upon logic, linguistics, metaphysics, philosophy of science, and philosophy of mind; but I am not sure how American PhD programs look at them, hence my original question. It seems like such programs are viewed favorably, since many of their PhD students, Post-Docs, and Professors spend a semester or more researching at leading American universities; but such transfers might be exceptions rather than the norm, and, in any case, it might be different for students with MA degrees who plan on enrolling in a US program for the full duration of their PhD. Note: you shouldn't take my word on any of this, and ought to double check. I'm judging this all on personal experience and secondhand sources. I don't have any stats or data to back me up.    

Edited February 18, 2016 by Nom-Nom Chomsky

[Nicholassss]

On 2/18/2016 at 2:42 AM, Nom-Nom Chomsky said:

pecado, I apologize for not being more specific. I am essentially asking if anyone, yourself included, is aware of if American (Philosophy) PhD programs look at students coming from celebrated European MA programs as though they are on an equal footing (just as competitive/impressive) as MA students coming from celebrated American programs, or if if such programs are likely to be seen as inferior to American programs, or at least less noteworthy insofar that they are, perhaps, not well known to the members of admissions committees. As noted above, I am particularly interested in whether or not anyone is aware of whether or not top tier American programs look favorably, indifferently, or negatively upon students coming from Institut Jean Nicod and/or the Berlin School of Mind and Brain, both of which are excellent research institutions that are purely analytical and scientific, and, moreover, teach some if not all of their courses in English.  

Nicholassss, I spent the past semester studying at the University of Geneva (an overwhelmingly analytic institution that is a bit hostile to continental philosophy), and might be able to answer your question somewhat. Many of the people with whom I worked complained that the Anglophone world more or less overlooks institutions that are located outside the US and UK. This much can be seen via Brian Leiter's (in)famous blog, and other ranking lists, all of which doubtlessly privilege US/UK institutions (particularly American ones). I'm wary of overemphasizing the continental/analytic divide, but it might be of relevance here. I imagine that programs that have a number of faculty focusing upon the continental/hermeneutic tradition, such as the University of Chicago and Emory University, will not disapprove of a degree from a European institution that focuses on the history of philosophy and figures such as Cassirer, Nietzsche, Foucault, Merleau Ponty, Habermas, and etc.  If you intend to apply to those sorts of programs, I don't think it would hurt you to get an MA in Europe; though, whether or not it would really help your chances would probably depend upon the quality and reputation of the institution you get your MA from. However, if you get an MA from an institution that focuses upon continental philosophy, and then apply to places like NYU or MIT, it'll probably hurt your chances. Having said that, there are a number of great universities on the continent that focus upon logic, linguistics, metaphysics, philosophy of science, and philosophy of mind; but I am not sure how American PhD programs look at them, hence my original question. It seems like such programs are viewed favorably, since many of their PhD students, Post-Docs, and Professors spend a semester or more researching at leading American universities; but such transfers might be exceptions rather than the norm, and, in any case, it might be different for students with MA degrees who plan on enrolling in a US program for the full duration of their PhD. Note: you shouldn't take my word on any of this, and ought to double check. I'm judging this all on personal experience and secondhand sources. I don't have any stats or data to back me up.    

Thank you very much for your input Nom-nom Chomsky,

I think we are facing the similar sort of problem then (although I applied to both BA and Master since my undergrad is not philosophy). I reckon an analytical writing sample would to some extent reduce the impact, but still not very sure of it.

[Erratic_Akratic]

I'm currently finishing up an MA from in a francophone Canadian department, and preparing to move to an American PhD this upcoming fall. So although my own experience is somewhat limited, I may have some insight into your questions. 

My department is "reputed" in the history of philosophy, if it enjoys any reputation at all. But my core interests are in issues of contemporary analytic philosophy. So I'm quite certain the reputation of my department played no role in deciding where I have or will be admitted. As for you, on the other hand, being associated with Jean Nicod or the Berlin School of Mind and Brain would certainly boost your chances, as these are indeed well-reputed schools (especially if the areas of analytic philosophy you wish to work in during your PhD are informed by research in the empirical/mind sciences). Still, I don't think you should worry too much about reputation.

 

What makes a successful applicant is not the quality of your previous education but rather the quality of your application. This may seem trivial, but to me it suggests you may be raising the wrong question (assuming that, your ultimate concern is to be admitted to an American PhD program). If what determines whether you are admitted to a PhD is the quality of your application, then an important factor in deciding between MA schools is whether these programs will give you the tools, and especially the guidance, to do well as an applicant. If it is not customary for MA students at Jean Nicod, for instance, to go on to a PhD in the states, that may be a problem.   

To be sure, whether a program prepares you well as a PhD applicant is not the only factor to be considered. You should definitely take into account the intrinsic qualities of the MA program, as well as the unique experience of studying abroad. But regarding the specific question 'whether that will help/hurt my chance", I would worry rather little about reputation, and quite a bit about the actual track record (or potential) of a program at preparing its master students for PhD applications.    

 

 

  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 2/16/2016 at 10:39 AM, Nom-Nom Chomsky said:

Specifically, I was wondering if anyone has any particular positions of the Jean Nicod Institute, and/or the Berlin School of Mind and Brain. These are my "dream programs," but I am concerned that American departments will be unfamiliar with and thus indifferent toward students coming in from those institutions.

 

Both of these places are well known.  As someone else said, the quality of your application matters most.  The choice of institution is relevant insofar as it prepares you to have a strong application.

Based on my own experience, I do not think the reputation of the school is particularly important.  I applied with an MA from a known but not particularly prestigious German university.  You can see my results in the signature.  A friend of mine applied with a BA from the same German university and did even better.  He accepted an offer from USC.  But as I said, both those places are well known and I do not think you have to worry about their reputation or being looked upon unfavorably.  

Something I might worry about, however, is the breadth of philosophy courses offered by the Berlin school.  What may hurt your chances is if your coursework is overwhelmingly scientific and you do not sufficiently demonstrate an aptitude for philosophy.  I considered applying there and this was one of my concerns.  But if your BA is in philosophy, it may not be an issue.