Location vs. ranking

[pbnwhey]

So, long story short, I have two funded offers so far -- one at a top 10 program, one at a top 50 (I'm sure you can figure out which is which from my signature). Obviously the top 10 will give me significantly better chances of landing a job, but how much weight are you guys giving location and cost of living in your decisions? If I choose the city over the mountains, my significant other and I will likely be living on ramen noodles for the next six years!

[echo449]

I mean, I think the difference in placement and opportunities offered by UCLA really makes a difference here. I don't know about your personal financial circumstances, but I would think UCLA students make due, unless the package for their gender program truly is unlivable...

Edited February 18, 2016 by echo449

[EmmaJava]

Plus Boulder is actually a wicked expensive place to live in its own right. I did my MA there. Lots of ramen.

[kurayamino]

I chose location over ranking for similar reasons. It would have been almost impossible to support myself and my husband on the UCLA stipend long enough for him to find work. It is SUPER expensive out there.. but people, couples even, do make it work. I just wasn't prepared to make all the sacrifices that would have been necessary to do that. Despite that though, UCLA was the hardest one to let go because it has a lot of great things going for it.

[NowMoreSerious]

Kura!  Hello!  

(But yeah in a case like Rutgers and UCLA they are essentially ranked the same, so the decision is much easier.)  

But @pbnwhey I think when you are talking about that big a gap, I strongly urge you to choose UCLA, and I swear this is not my own bias here. I would say the same thing if it was any comparable school such as Virginia, Rutgers, and Ann Arbor. 

I know many people who have gone through Grad school across the country. There are people who hate the city they live in, or can barely afford it, but love their program.  There are also people who love the city and are comfortable in it, but hate their program. In almost every case, it is the latter who have the most regret, and more often than not, quit or leave early. 

The thing about expensive places such as Los Angeles, Chicago, etc, is that once you get to know the city, you will learn where it is possible to move to to be able to afford to live. 

So the first year will be difficult, because of the adjustment and you not knowing where to move, but it will improve, and you will be in not just a good, but an outstanding world-ranked program in your field. 

You will not be living on ramen noodles for 6 years.  Maybe for 1 year.  And the fact that you have a significant other already tells me that if they can find work, it should be doable. 

 

[rising_star]

If the gap were smaller, I'd tell you to choose location. But, the difference between top 10 and top 50 in terms of placement is significant enough that you should really try to make it work at the top 10 program.

[silenus_thescribe]

5 hours ago, EmmaJava said:

Plus Boulder is actually a wicked expensive place to live in its own right. I did my MA there. Lots of ramen.

This is pretty important. Unless Boulder offers amazing funding -- which I don't believe it does (I applied there last year -- than in terms of money it's a wash either way, though that's not to say getting by in LA is easy. Given UCLA's resources in reputation, I too would say it is the better choice, unless you believe Boulder to be a better fit. 

[cloverhinge]

First off, congrats on your acceptances. I definitely agree with everything that's been said -- I also think it's helpful not to think of it as a black-and-white/ either-or kind of situation. I have talked to grad students who live in very expensive cities and have even had to take out loans, but are still happy because of the other support that they have from the department. In the end I think you should choose a program that you can think you can be happy -- and therefore productive! -- in, looking at all aspects of whatever will make you happy. (I know this sounds dumb, but I didn't apply to some programs because of the notorious weather, since I'm really influenced by the lack of sun/warmth) I think the best way to scope out all the details is to really visit and talk to current students. Have you gotten a chance to visit UCLA or Boulder yet? It will definitely be useful to talk to the grad students there and hear how much of a financial/emotional/academic support they get, and weigh all the pros and cons according to how you best thrive. Because my personal philosophy is that in the end what counts is your performance, and you should be the best judge of how other factors affect that. Anyway, this is happy decision to be making - congrats again!  

[pbnwhey]

First off, you guys are all awesome. I'll be visiting both programs (back to back) in the beginning of March and hope to make my decision fairly quickly after that. The S.O. won't have the chance to visit with me, but has lived in Southern CA before (and I grew up in San Diego), so even if we both hate living in the city we know we'll adjust. For reputation/resources, I want to choose UCLA but Boulder is attractive in terms of not living around so many people (since no matter where we go, we'll be living outside of town). The fact that it's a new program scares me a bit, but they've shown quite a bit of connection so far (professors from across the disciplines emailing me, giving me more info, etc) whereas I haven't heard from UCLA since I booked my flight. I guess it all comes down to program strength and the visit, really, but seriously all of these comments have made it so much easier to set out some criteria for me to judge by when I do visit. Thank you all!

[CarolineNC]

Wait, but neither of these programs are for English, right? Or are these just your foci within the English dept.? If not, are there separate rankings for Gender Studies and Ethnic Studies? 

The rankings of English programs might be a moot point in this case. Which could be a good thing for you, because then it'd be reasonable to consider both equally.

 

[DaniB23]

Having lived in Los Angeles for three years, if you do choose UCLA, I would recommend living in the Valley.  The commute won't be fun, but it is well worth it price-wise and in terms of space and not being surrounded by so many people.  I loved living in North Hollywood and it was way way cheaper than the alternatives of the living close to UCLA.  Alternatively, Culver City (West Side) wouldn't be a terrible commute, is nice, and more affordable as well.  Good luck and congrats!

[pbnwhey]

15 minutes ago, DaniB23 said:

Having lived in Los Angeles for three years, if you do choose UCLA, I would recommend living in the Valley.  The commute won't be fun, but it is well worth it price-wise and in terms of space and not being surrounded by so many people.  I loved living in North Hollywood and it was way way cheaper than the alternatives of the living close to UCLA.  Alternatively, Culver City (West Side) wouldn't be a terrible commute, is nice, and more affordable as well.  Good luck and congrats!

Thank you!! I was looking at the Valley since the S.O. is very much an outdoors type and grew up on 200 acres so he'd like to be further away. The other place I was looking at (in terms of being closer) was Pacific Palisades -- any opinion on there? It seems to be a very high-end area but with some decent apartment prices.

[lesabendio]

2 hours ago, pbnwhey said:

Thank you!! I was looking at the Valley since the S.O. is very much an outdoors type and grew up on 200 acres so he'd like to be further away. The other place I was looking at (in terms of being closer) was Pacific Palisades -- any opinion on there? It seems to be a very high-end area but with some decent apartment prices.

In terms of cost and quality of life, the Valley varies as much as Central LA does, and it depends on what part of the Valley you're looking at. The most affordable neighborhoods are probably Canoga Park, Van Nuys, and North Hollywood. Among them, I'd suggest NoHo because you'd still have access to the Metro into downtown and other parts of Central LA.

That being said, if you can swing it, I'd avoid the Valley. You can find cheaper neighborhoods to live in, and honestly the Valley isn't a terribly interesting place. I have friends who regretted moving to the Valley because they came to feel cut off and isolated.* After all, an entire mountain range separates the Valley from the rest of the city, and the horrible traffic on freeways to the Westside and other parts of Central LA will sometimes dissuade you from wanting to go out. The 405, the main Valley-Westside artery, is particularly notorious.

Culver City and Palms on the Westside are good options, but over the past 5 years rents have skyrocketed as the tech industry has developed in the neighborhood. Historically, many UCLA grad students lived in charming mid-century dingbat apartment buildings in Palms, but they're being pushed out by techie transplants.

Pacific Palisades is one of the wealthier neighborhoods on the Westside, and I'd be surprised if you could find affordable apartment housing there. In any case, the shops and stores cater to the wealth in the area and would probably be unfriendly (in terms of price) to students.

I'd recommend you check out the Mid-City, Koreatown, and West Adams neighborhoods. They're in Central LA and not too far from the Westside. They have lots of studios, 1-beds, and 2-beds in their housing stock. And they're still affordable. Although we'll see how long that lasts.

I'm an LA native, so if you have any questions about the city, the cost of living, or housing, feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to give you more information.

*Full disclosure: I was born in the Valley, did not enjoy growing up there, and probably have a bias.

Edited February 18, 2016 by lesabendio

[DaniB23]

On 2/18/2016 at 0:03 PM, pbnwhey said:

Thank you!! I was looking at the Valley since the S.O. is very much an outdoors type and grew up on 200 acres so he'd like to be further away. The other place I was looking at (in terms of being closer) was Pacific Palisades -- any opinion on there? It seems to be a very high-end area but with some decent apartment prices.

The Palisades are lovely- I used to dog sit for someone over there, but definitely pricey.  It's a good and quiet area though--definitely an older crowd, so if that's something that would make working easier for you it would be a good place to be.  I would say the general cost of running errands and entertainment over there is a lot higher though.  For example, going to a movie in the Palisades or even in the city (LA proper) would run $15 for just a ticket, whereas in North Hollywood it's $8-$10.There are other expenses that, when informed, you can cut down by hundreds of dollars, making it easier to live in the city or somewhere like the Palisades: namely, groceries;  Gelson's, Erewhon, Whole Foods, and Pavilions are some of the MOST expensive grocery stores out there, whereas Ralph's, Von's, Alberton's, and even Trader Joe's are much more reasonable.

[margeryhemp]

On 2/18/2016 at 7:22 PM, NowMoreSerious said:

Kura!  Hello!  

(But yeah in a case like Rutgers and UCLA they are essentially ranked the same, so the decision is much easier.)  

But @pbnwhey I think when you are talking about that big a gap, I strongly urge you to choose UCLA, and I swear this is not my own bias here. I would say the same thing if it was any comparable school such as Virginia, Rutgers, and Ann Arbor. 

I know many people who have gone through Grad school across the country. There are people who hate the city they live in, or can barely afford it, but love their program.  There are also people who love the city and are comfortable in it, but hate their program. In almost every case, it is the latter who have the most regret, and more often than not, quit or leave early. 

The thing about expensive places such as Los Angeles, Chicago, etc, is that once you get to know the city, you will learn where it is possible to move to to be able to afford to live. 

So the first year will be difficult, because of the adjustment and you not knowing where to move, but it will improve, and you will be in not just a good, but an outstanding world-ranked program in your field. 

You will not be living on ramen noodles for 6 years.  Maybe for 1 year.  And the fact that you have a significant other already tells me that if they can find work, it should be doable. 

 

I second this! Last year I chose the program that offered me the least $$ (UCLA) over other, lower-ranked programs. Not just because of its ranking-- on my visit with faculty, I fell in love with the department and its resources/opportunities-- but it was certainly a factor. I thought that I, too, would be living on ramen forever, but it's actually been super-liveable. Produce here seems to be a bit cheaper, so groceries don't run me as much; I got a roommate and an apartment that, though my half was equivalent to what I was paying for a one-bedroom back in Philly, is still manageable on my budget; and I'm still able to go out on the nights that I'm not swamped with work, plus save a tiny bit each month. Most of my cohort was actually able to find one-bedroom apartments in the West Side that would be pretty dang cheap split two ways (I'm talking $500-$700 a person, which in LA speak is cheap), so moving with a significant other would definitely help.

@NowMoreSerious is right-- within a matter of months you'll find out the cheaper neighborhoods and find the dive bars and restaurants that make it possible to both work and have fun. Money was my number one fear about coming to LA, but I'm happy to say that it's been much more doable than I thought it would be. Let the visits make the decision for you! And feel free to reach out with any other questions. Good luck!