I want to teach freshman comp and options are confusing

[FeetInTheSky]

Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time caller. 

I realized recently that writing is my first love and that teaching writing might just be the fulfilling career I've been looking for since finishing my undergrad. Epiphany accomplished. 

What's currently unclear to me is whether I need to get a PhD, or if an MA is sufficient. Research doesn't interest me all that much, but I fear a career in Adjunct Purgatory. The other wrinkle in the plan is that I'm trying to not pay for graduate school (ha!) and so I'm most interested in programs that have some kind of teaching assistant work that can help with some tuition remission. 

My question to you, my esteemed reader, is whether I can have my cake and eat it too. The big draw of doing a PhD program is that it would be funded, but I'm not particularly interested in scholarship and I would rather just be a writing teacher. The conundrum is whether I can get an MA, not pay (too much) for it, and still have a job in the field I love. 

I hope this was clear and I really do apologize if this is a question that's been asked and answered here before. I've seen some stuff about Rhetoric and Comp programs, but some of that is old and I know that sometimes this stuff changes quickly, especially post-recession. Thanks so much for reading my post! 

[Dr. Old Bill]

Hi Jeremy. There are a few answers to this question, really. Many community colleges will hire writing professors who only have an M.A. That said, the tide seems to be turning on that practice, so while you might be able to find a high-volume freshman comp gig at a community college now, it's hard to say whether that will still be the case in five or ten years.

I can't deny that it is rather refreshing to hear someone whose interest is in teaching freshman comp, however -- some people see teaching 101 as something punitive or purely developmental (an unfortunate perspective, in my view).

Other people can speak more thoroughly about the benefits of a Ph.D. in rhet-comp (it's not my field, but I'm a rhet-comp supporter / proponent etc.), but I should point out that rhet-comp seems to be where most of the jobs are these days. Again, there's the "what will the landscape look like in five years" question, but it is currently a minor growth sector within the industry. Your points about the funded nature of a Ph.D. are valid, as are your concerns of "adjunct purgatory" without a Ph.D. (though that can be the outcome for someone with a Ph.D. as well). The one caution I would have about pursuing a Ph.D. in rhet-comp is that a lot of scholarship is still required. In fact, of the three graduate courses I took last semester (which included a course on graduate research / textual scholarship, and a course on Renaissance literature and philosophy), the course with the most reading was Intro to Teaching Freshman Composition. Even though it is not tied to literature, rhet-comp still requires a great deal of research and scholarship, so I'm afraid you won't be off the hook in that regard. All academics committed to a career in academia are expected to be reading, researching, learning, and growing from the start of their careers until the last shovel of dirt is heaped upon their graves.

Others will surely come along and give you more practical (and applicable) advice, but those are some initial considerations for you to...well...consider.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Wyatt's Terps

[sarabethke]

There are funded MAs that offer assistantships and hire their graduates as full time instructors. But as Wyatt said, a rhet-comp person will know better the benefits of getting a PhD

[doubledogd]

I attended a funded MA with significant comp-teaching experience included and found an adjunct job very easily. The trick, as you've pointed out, is figuring out how to turn it into a full-time, potentially tenured position. At the community college where I worked, I felt pretty comfortable that I would be able to turn it into a full-time position given a couple years of adjuncting and voluntary department service work. But the likelihood of getting that full-time position as an MA seems very dependent on the specific context (enrollment issues, hiring freezes, dept policies and atmosphere, openings, etc.) and if you can hack it on a very low salary for some time (or work at multiple schools). A friend from my MA program has been making that climb at a small four-year college but still hasn't gotten full-time work just yet. 

I don't have any good information about the usefulness of a rhet/comp PhD, but I thought I'd add my experience. 

[ProfLorax]

I was on the track to get a full-time teaching job at a community college before I entered a PhD program. I actually applied for a FT post the same time I applied for grad school. I was offered an interview, but then the FT position got pulled. I was later told I was the top choice. 

I ended up going the PhD route for several reasons, but not because I didn't love teaching community college. I did. My community college students constantly challenged me, taught me, surprised me, and helped me become a better teacher and person. I actually really miss the student demographic and hope I end up at an institution with primarily first generation students when I graduate. 

Depending on where you want to teach, it's absolutely possible to do so without a PhD. At my community college, the chair would automatically discard any applications from Ivy League Lit PhD's because they had no experience teaching first generation immigrant/Gen 2.0 students. I definitely recommend a funded MA with an emphasis on composition and teaching experience. There's a such emphasis on basic writing at the community college level, so if you can take courses in that and teach basic writing courses in your MA, you'll be in a good place to get an adjunct gig. If you're in California, you can also help your chances by taking 12 units in post-secondary reading: in order to teach reading at the college level, instructors need these 12 units (I got a certificate from CSU Fullerton: it was all online). Even if you don't want to teach reading, the certificate demonstrates an interest in basic writing and reading students, which can help you stand out. 

After you graduate, you will have to adjunct. For how long? It all matters on education funding. While adjuncting, you'll want to focus on getting great teaching observations from your peers and cultivating a strong reputation in your department (which is hard because it requires SO MUCH UNPAID LABOR on behalf of adjuncts, so blah). But this will really give you a leg up if a FT spot opens up at your school OR you need letters of rec to apply to a different school. 

[KappaRoss]

I'm in the same boat as you, but I've already applied for Fall 2016 rhetoric/composition MA programs.

You can teach writing at the community college level with an MA, but make sure you get experience teaching freshman comp while you are getting your MA. This is really important because when you go on the job market, employers will generally want at least one year of experience teaching on the level. So, only look at schools that offer teaching opportunities for MA students.

Your MA should always be at least partially funded in your specific situation. Schools will offer teaching assistantships because you want to teach freshman comp and they need graduate students to teach freshman comp. You're not going to be working for free.

A good example is Oregon State's MA program, which offers a two year teaching assistantship if you are funded. It comes with a tuition waiver and a living stipend. But a lot of state schools might want you to take a class in teaching writing first, which means you'll only get one year of teaching writing. This can hurt a little when looking for jobs.

I applied to only five schools, but I wish I would have applied to more. I suggest applying to many schools and going to the one that offers a full teaching assistantship.

This is a decent place to scope out programs, especially PhD programs if you are considering that: http://associationdatabase.com/aws/RSA/pt/sp/resources_gradprograms

But also lots of state schools offer an MA in English with a complete focus on composition. It's much more cost efficient to go to one of these state schools, and lots of them aren't on that program list. They might also have Spring admissions, which I see is your target season from your profile.

@ProfLorax Great information; you are a fantastic poster on this forum. I did not know about Fullerton's online certificate program. I wish I would've done that while I am waiting for Fall 2016 to arrive.

[mk-8]

Hi JeremyWrites! I'm kind of in the same boat. The reason I decided to pursue graduate school is because I want to teach freshman writing (I'd also like to get into writing center administration). I've applied to MA programs in rhet/comp, and have two TA offers. One is fully funded, one is half funded. I obviously can't give you the advice that other, more experienced posters can, but you're not alone!

[MeNotMe]

Hey. I'm a longtime M.A.-only adjunct at both the 2- and 4-year levels, having specialized in Freshman Comp all the while. While I am now seeking a PhD, I think my experience might be helpful to you as you work through this decision.  Feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to share what I've learned along my long and winding road...which currently includes five sections of 101 across three campuses! Ah, adjuncting. Nothing quite like it. But we make the choices we make for reasons only we know, sometimes. Drop me a line and I'll gladly talk to you. Best, MNM

[MeNotMe]

I'd like to second everything mikeck told you, too. What a helpful, comprehensive response. I've been where you both are, facing these decisions and questions, and now that I'm on the other side, I wish I had had such advice going in. Getting a master's and teaching for eight-plus years now, with a brief detour for a law degree and some years as an attorney, has been an amazing experience that I wouldn't trade for anything. Thanks, mikeck, and good luck to you, JeremyWrites. It will all work out for you, I'm sure. Best, MNM

[empress-marmot]

Hey, potential Rhet-Comper!

As others here have said, look into state programs, particularly ones which will let you teach right away. Try to find programs which fit your interest in instruction. For example, a lot of people in my program are interested in assessment, so that might not be what you're into.

If you're accepted to a program, let your future professors know about your career plans. You might be able to teach a wider range of classes or get some administrative experience, which might help when it comes to applying for lecturer positions.

Question: do programs in Composition and Rhetoric focus more on pedagogy than programs in Rhetoric and Composition?
Is it like reading ingredients lists? I have no idea. 

[klader]

Hi there!

The advice is really great here and I don't have much to offer, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you absolutely can find fully funded MA programs in comp/rhet (I got into 3 with full funding in the form of teaching assistantships and am waitlisted for funding at a 4th).

Each program is different, though, and might allow you to focus on different things. One school I'm considering allows MA students to teach their first year comp course but also might let 2nd year MA students teach some kind of specialized course. They also let 2nd year MA students apply for a writing center assistantship (though it isn't guaranteed), and some of their PhD students have even been able to teach basic courses in similar disciplines.

I also think it's great that you actively want to teach first year comp, and I think many places would be impressed and happy with that attitude. 

And as far as teaching right away, I think every school is different. One of my prospective schools has you enroll in this teaching practicum where you go to class every day the two weeks before the semester starts and then start teaching in the fall and meet in the practicum course once a week to check in on things. Some might just give you summer training and send you in, or others might make you wait (other people can probably chime in on this!). Schools probably vary, so I would definitely ask when you're applying just so you know and can apply to programs that could give you what you want.

I don't know if many have spring entry times, though. All of mine only admit students in the fall.

Good luck with everything!

[FeetInTheSky]

Thanks for the advice everyone -- it's very much appreciated. I will certainly start investigating state universities with funded teaching assistantships. The MA/PhD conundrum is still there, but the options are slightly more clear. To quickly address @ProfLorax's point about research... I don't loathe research, not one bit, but I don't want it to be a focal point of my career. I could probably conduct research for a while in a PhD program and then get a teaching-heavy gig at a two or four-year college. If the credential will help me in doing that, I just may do it still. The sticky part is that I've never done any Rhet/Comp research, as my undergraduate English program was very Lit heavy, and so I'm honestly not even sure of what it entails. Perhaps, then, I should pursue a Masters first, see where things go, and keep my options for the PhD open. After all, applying for a terminal masters doesn't mean I can't apply for a PhD in the future. 

And in terms of Spring enrollment... that was simply an oversight. Drop-down lists are hard sometimes. I meant to pick Fall 2017. Whoops. 

Again, really, thanks so much for your advice. I really appreciate it. The wide world of graduate school is rather intimidating and it's great to know that there are some people out there who want to help. 

[ProfLorax]

17 minutes ago, JeremyWrites said:

To quickly address @ProfLorax's point about research... I don't loathe research, not one bit, but I don't want it to be a focal point of my career. I could probably conduct research for a while in a PhD program and then get a teaching-heavy gig at a two or four-year college. If the credential will help me in doing that, I just may do it still. 

I think you meant to tag @Wyatt's Terps! But here are my two cents: given what you say here, community college is a great fit for you! 

[FeetInTheSky]

36 minutes ago, ProfLorax said:

I think you meant to tag @Wyatt's Terps! But here are my two cents: given what you say here, community college is a great fit for you! 

Indeed. The internet is difficult. Sorry about that!

[Romanista]

A couple people have mentioned spring admissions for MA programs in comp rhet. 

I can only speak from my limited experience, but even if a program has spring admissions, it is likely that you won't be able to teach during your first semester if you start in the spring. My program lets you teach during your first semester, but you have to take two teaching related courses at the same time. These courses are only offered during the fall term. If you start during the spring, you may still get a funded offer such as by working in the writing center, but the details of your assistantship would differ from getting one in the fall. 

[bhr]

I'm going to weigh in briefly, as someone who is applying for PhDs and jobs this semester. An MA in Rhet/Comp, with a couple years of teaching, can put you in position to teach full time at both the 2 and 4 year level, though usually only TT at 2-year colleges. A recent graduate of my program is tenured at a junior college, but most either go on to the PhD or go into the private sector (intentionally, not as a fallback). Fixed-term jobs are not the end of the world, and some schools actually pay them better than you would get as a TT at some places (with lighter (3-3) teaching loads). Look at the type of job you would like, at the type of institution that you would like, and see what background the people in the jobs have. Look at schools with job listings that you would be interested in and look at the requirements. A lot of programs have a progression (Lecture, Senior Lecturer, ect.) for non-TT jobs, and it's always best to look for places that offer some research support/campus leadership/travel funding for NTT positions, as those jobs tend to be more stable and respected within the program.

R/C MA programs run the gamut from PhD prep (OSU) to Professional Writing and Editing focused (EMU). Sometimes you may benefit from a school that only offers an MA, as those programs have an incentive to let you teach immediately and know how to market you to the job market.

The good news is that R/C MA programs are, by and large, fully funded, or at least have fully funded slots. If you really want to teach, you can often negotiate that as part of attendance. The key part is to have honest conversations with both your advisor and the folks at the schools you are considering, as they will try to make sure that you wind up in the right place.

 

(There are lots of places that are teaching focused, without a research component to the jobs you wind up in, but you need to have the degree to get into those jobs). You should consider reaching out to Howard Tinberg (on the NCTE board) if 2 year teaching is your end goal.

 

[Yukon]

On March 5, 2016 at 1:21 PM, JeremyWrites said:

My question to you, my esteemed reader, is whether I can have my cake and eat it too. The big draw of doing a PhD program is that it would be funded, but I'm not particularly interested in scholarship and I would rather just be a writing teacher. The conundrum is whether I can get an MA, not pay (too much) for it, and still have a job in the field I love.

There are funded MAs--I applied to some of them this year in case I didn't get into PhD programs. Miami University, University of Louisville, and Illinois State University are the ones I applied to, but I know there are others! Good luck!

[Romanista]

On 3/5/2016 at 4:55 PM, ProfLorax said:

After you graduate, you will have to adjunct. For how long? It all matters on education funding. While adjuncting, you'll want to focus on getting great teaching observations from your peers and cultivating a strong reputation in your department (which is hard because it requires SO MUCH UNPAID LABOR on behalf of adjuncts, so blah). But this will really give you a leg up if a FT spot opens up at your school OR you need letters of rec to apply to a different school. 

This, to me, is the reason why the PhD seems like a better deal than trying to get full-time teaching work with an MA. Assuming that you won't have some high paying part-time or full-time job that you would pursue at the same time as when you adjunct, you probably won't make more money as an adjunct than you would as a graduate student in a PhD program with a teaching assistantship. This is especially true if your PhD program offers health insurance, and also consider that full-time adjuncting costs a lot for transportation.

From what I've heard and read about getting TT jobs at a CC, hiring committees prefer the PhD because the market lets them be choosy, but also because CCs have an inferiority complex toward universities. CCs want their faculty to be concerned with teaching primarily, so research isn't usually emphasized unless it ties into pedagogy in some way. Fortunately in comp rhet a lot of research (but certainly not all) is about teaching anyway. I think you may change your mind about being ambivalent toward research in comp rhet, because you may find that it helps your teaching process. Research in this field is usually based on practice, not just theory.

I think the best option is to get a PhD and get teaching experience at a CC while you are a PhD student. Some PhD programs will be OK with this and some won't. I would suggest researching whether current graduate students in your prospective programs teach at CCs. Another thing that I heard about why CCs prefer PhDs instead of MAs is that having just an MA means that you are ineligible for ever being an administrator at at least some CCs. Regardless of your career goals, a future interviewer may choose a candidate with a PhD because s/he anticipates an administrative position opening up soon, and it would save money for the CC to not have to hire someone else later on.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Romanista

[SarahMK]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation--almost finished with my (partially-funded) MA, and not sure if I should pursue a PhD or try to teach. I will say, as someone who has 2 years of experience with graduate coursework, that I would absolutely *not* recommend pursuing a PhD if you're feeling "meh" about it. The MA workload is already stressful, and a PhD in English can often take 7 years or more to complete, even if you already have an MA. That's an enormous commitment. What might be a good compromise, if you're still unsure, is to look into PhD programs that require you to complete all of the requirements for an MA in the first 1-2 years. That way, if the PhD track turns out it's not for you, you could potentially withdraw after completing the MA. [Disclaimer: I have *not* actually tried this approach myself! I do know people that have, but my advice on that matter is heresay:) ]

With that said, I have rather different feelings than most of the other posters in this thread about attending a program that allows you to teach immediately upon beginning your studies. I took several pedagogy classes *before* teaching, and my assistantship required increasing levels of responsibility and work. I absolutely cannot imagine teaching my own course during my first semester; yes, many many programs work that way, but not necessarily for the better. I think that approach cheapens the importance of pedagogy for both the institution and the students. Again, this seems to be an unpopular opinion, but keep in mind that teaching immediately upon beginning your studies is not necessarily going to make you a better teacher or scholar, nor improve your job prospects.

[bhr]

On 3/18/2016 at 6:53 PM, SarahMK said:

I'm in a somewhat similar situation--almost finished with my (partially-funded) MA, and not sure if I should pursue a PhD or try to teach. I will say, as someone who has 2 years of experience with graduate coursework, that I would absolutely *not* recommend pursuing a PhD if you're feeling "meh" about it. The MA workload is already stressful, and a PhD in English can often take 7 years or more to complete, even if you already have an MA. That's an enormous commitment. What might be a good compromise, if you're still unsure, is to look into PhD programs that require you to complete all of the requirements for an MA in the first 1-2 years. That way, if the PhD track turns out it's not for you, you could potentially withdraw after completing the MA. [Disclaimer: I have *not* actually tried this approach myself! I do know people that have, but my advice on that matter is heresay:) ]

With that said, I have rather different feelings than most of the other posters in this thread about attending a program that allows you to teach immediately upon beginning your studies. I took several pedagogy classes *before* teaching, and my assistantship required increasing levels of responsibility and work. I absolutely cannot imagine teaching my own course during my first semester; yes, many many programs work that way, but not necessarily for the better. I think that approach cheapens the importance of pedagogy for both the institution and the students. Again, this seems to be an unpopular opinion, but keep in mind that teaching immediately upon beginning your studies is not necessarily going to make you a better teacher or scholar, nor improve your job prospects.

I'll add here, however, that seven years for a rhet/comp PhD is incredibly uncommon, especially with an MA. My program averages about 4.8 years, and the field average is under 5.5 (and some of both of those numbers are shaded by part time students). If you do decide to try to go straight to a PhD with the MA as a safety net, do it at a program that is set up for it.

I'll also argue, heavily, that multiple rounds of pedagogical training aren't required before your first class. Getting that classroom experience is what made those pedagogical discussions make sense. A strong mentoring and training program for TAs is required, but I can't imagine spending 2-3 in grad school before experiencing teaching. I had a class my first semester, and didn't take a pedagogy course until my second MA year, and still feel like I learned how to teach that first year. I made a lot of mistakes, mind you, but that's that happens to everyone, and the key is to learn from what didn't work.

I'm not going to say that Sarah's opinion doesn't reflect most programs (I would never shit on UMass, which produced two of my favorite scholars in the field), but they are a very traditional, deliberate program, as one would expect from a place that was led by Charles Moran and Peter Elbow for so many years, and their practice isn't indicative of how many R1 Rhet Comp programs work.

 

 

[Need Coffee in an IV]

I don't have experience in your field but I wanted to help out! I saw in your post you said you weren't excited to do research but it would be "okay". I would say be careful to avoid falling into a trap. My boyfriend had the same idea, he wasn't excited by research but he thought it would be alright. He realized that wasn't the case and withdrew after one semester. This was a combination of his awful advisor, courses were limited, and he realized he actually hated research. So tbh if you are feeling iffy on research then you should try out a funded masters first. Its much easier to walk away from a masters than a phd program. Or thats at least my experience from my friends/peers.

[KappaRoss]

On 3/18/2016 at 4:53 PM, SarahMK said:

Again, this seems to be an unpopular opinion, but keep in mind that teaching immediately upon beginning your studies is not necessarily going to make you a better teacher or scholar, nor improve your job prospects.

I disagree. I think two years of classroom teaching experience looks better than one year of classroom teaching experience on job applications. The more actual experience you have, the better the chance you have of landing a job. Think about it from the employer's perspective. Would you rather hire a fresh grad with one year of classroom experience or two years of experience?

You are absolutely correct though that it kind of cheapens the initial teaching experience and throws you into it, though most students seem to do OK. In a perfect world, you would take classes and gain an actual educational background of teaching before you actually teach. This is logical sense and why teaching credential programs do not have you teach your own class as soon as you step foot into the program. But for graduate school in English, putting students to work is cornerstone to universities. A line of grad students teaching English 1 to high-tuition freshman students saves a lot of money for the school.