Campus visit dilemma and more

[philgrad]

I'm deciding between three MA programs:  Georgia State, Brandeis, and George Washington's new program.  Because they offer full funding plus TA stipend (while the others only offer partial tuition remission plus TA stipend, which would make them roughly $25000 - $30000 for the program excluding room & board etc.), I'm leaning toward GSU.  But I'd hate to miss out on seeing what the other two schools have to offer and how I get on with the faculty and students.  Ideally I'd visit all three then make my decision, but I live quite far from all three schools and only GW offers a travel reimbursement.

How crucial do you think are campus visits before making a decision?  Is it a bad idea to only visit GW (and maybe Brandeis since it is not too far and I can bite the bullet if need be), when I think GSU might be my top choice?

I'm interested in ethics, moral psychology, moral epistemology, and 19th-20th century continental philosophy.  I'm not interested in metaphysics.  Am I misguided in thinking that Brandeis, though a fabulous school with excellent placement, might not be the best fit for me?  Am I missing anything about the strengths of these departments, including NIU where I'm on the wait list for funding?  And any info on the program culture/atmosphere at any of these schools would be greatly appreciated!

Edited March 12, 2016 by philgrad

[rising_star]

I would say that campus visits aren't absolutely necessary, though I realize others would disagree. For a MA program in particular, it's two years of your life, which really isn't that bad when you think about your life as a whole. You can live almost anywhere for two years, you know? If you're planning to go to a PhD program afterward, I'd say that going to the program with funding and avoiding the $25-30K in loans you'd otherwise need, is a wise career move, in addition to being a wise financial move. I never visited the PhD program I ultimately attended and I don't regret that. I talked to current grad students on the phone and via email, had met my POI previously, and used the internet to get a sense of what the place would be like. 

I don't know anything about your field so I can't provide advice on which program is the best for you. Good luck!

[MentalEngineer]

Do not do an unfunded MA unless you are independently wealthy. Getting into a PhD program with $30K in loans you don't need is bad. Not getting into a PhD program with $30K in loans you don't need is worse.

Independently of that, I will say that very few admitted students visit UWM before accepting. I didn't, apart from a quick wander through campus while I was hunting for housing. It seems to work out well enough.

[philstudent1991]

Don't do an MA unless they offer full tuition remission plus stipend. And I wouldn't go to a new MA program. Your interests don't look like a perfect match with GSU, but there are def folks there you could work with, and they have good placement, and they are funded, so that looks like your best bet out of those three. 

[philgrad]

14 minutes ago, philstudent1991 said:

Don't do an MA unless they offer full tuition remission plus stipend. And I wouldn't go to a new MA program. Your interests don't look like a perfect match with GSU, but there are def folks there you could work with, and they have good placement, and they are funded, so that looks like your best bet out of those three. 

 

Thanks!  The consensus seems to align with my feeling that I do not want to be in debt!

Would you happen to know about SFSU, Colorado State, and NIU's programs and how well they align with my interests?  I ask because I'm wait listed for funding at Colorado and NIU and have yet to hear from SFSU.

Edited March 13, 2016 by philgrad

[philgrad]

1 hour ago, MentalEngineer said:

Do not do an unfunded MA unless you are independently wealthy. Getting into a PhD program with $30K in loans you don't need is bad. Not getting into a PhD program with $30K in loans you don't need is worse.

Independently of that, I will say that very few admitted students visit UWM before accepting. I didn't, apart from a quick wander through campus while I was hunting for housing. It seems to work out well enough.

Thanks for the info and advice!  It's reassuring to know that not everyone visits campus before accepting.

[philstudent1991]

15 hours ago, philgrad said:

 

Thanks!  The consensus seems to align with my feeling that I do not want to be in debt!

Would you happen to know about SFSU, Colorado State, and NIU's programs and how well they align with my interests?  I ask because I'm wait listed for funding at Colorado and NIU and have yet to hear from SFSU.

I hear good things about NIU, but I'm not really qualified to comment. It looks like NIU and GSU are on another level than CSU and SFSU in terms of placement. Apparently no one applied out from Colorado State last year, for example. So if that's important to you I gather GSU and NIU are better environments for that. 

[philgrad]

4 hours ago, philstudent1991 said:

I hear good things about NIU, but I'm not really qualified to comment. It looks like NIU and GSU are on another level than CSU and SFSU in terms of placement. Apparently no one applied out from Colorado State last year, for example. So if that's important to you I gather GSU and NIU are better environments for that. 

That's pretty shocking about Colorado!  I was under the impression that SFSU has had pretty decent placement though.

[anonmaly]

13 minutes ago, philgrad said:

That's pretty shocking about Colorado!  I was under the impression that SFSU has had pretty decent placement though.

Why is that shocking and/or a bad sign (if you take it to be)? Maybe everyone who graduated decided that they would be better suited not going to a philosophy phD program, which says more about personal growth and introspection than the quality of the classes or faculty. To be honest, I thought that part of the reason one would choose to go to an MA program was to decide if academic philosophy is really something that aligned with said person's values, time commitments, and goals in life. I don't think the fact that no one applied out is a bad sign for those who want to go there in the future.

 

[philgrad]

4 hours ago, anonmaly said:

Why is that shocking and/or a bad sign (if you take it to be)? Maybe everyone who graduated decided that they would be better suited not going to a philosophy phD program, which says more about personal growth and introspection than the quality of the classes or faculty. To be honest, I thought that part of the reason one would choose to go to an MA program was to decide if academic philosophy is really something that aligned with said person's values, time commitments, and goals in life. I don't think the fact that no one applied out is a bad sign for those who want to go there in the future.

 

I don't disagree with you and don't necessarily take the fact that nobody applied to be a "bad sign."  But I do wonder why.  I guess surprise would have been a better word.  Would you not be surprised if next year no students apply for PhD programs out of any of the other top MA programs?

Edited March 14, 2016 by philgrad

[SamStone]

I am a student at UWM and I would find it somewhat shocking if no one in next year's cohort applied to phd programs...

I don't think it would necessarily speak negatively of the quality of the education, but I would find it shocking nonetheless.

[MentalEngineer]

44 minutes ago, SamStone said:

I am a student at UWM and I would find it somewhat shocking if no one in next year's cohort applied to phd programs...

I don't think it would necessarily speak negatively of the quality of the education, but I would find it shocking nonetheless.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone or other did, just as happened in your cohort, mine (and very nearly to me!), the one before mine, and so on.

@philgrad: I think you would want to know CSU's cohort size before deciding whether or not to be worried. If they only graduated three to five students. it's not implausible to think that everyone had reasons for not applying or happened to strike out this year. Further, if the cohort size were small, the fact that all of them struck out (if they did) wouldn't be very predictive of your own chances. But if they had a cohort of 10 or more and all of that cohort decided to quit or struck out, I would be quite concerned, either that students felt unprepared, were unprepared, or were somehow not being directed well.

Edited March 14, 2016 by MentalEngineer

[anonmaly]

On 3/14/2016 at 11:02 PM, philgrad said:

I don't disagree with you and don't necessarily take the fact that nobody applied to be a "bad sign."  But I do wonder why.  I guess surprise would have been a better word.  Would you not be surprised if next year no students apply for PhD programs out of any of the other top MA programs?

Good point. I agree it might be surprising. However, if it's only one year and doesn't appear to be a trend, I wouldn't dismiss a school because of this fact alone.