History PhD at UNC Chapel Hill or CUNY

[fmlanger]

I have been admitted to PhD programs in history at both UNC Chapel Hill and CUNY.  Both are fully funded.

I know that Chapel Hill is perhaps the more prestigious history department, but the professor I would be working with there is not an obvious fit for me, while the one I would be working with at CUNY has research interests much closer to my own.  (I want to focus on the influence of classical antiquity on early US political culture.)  CUNY also has a focus on teaching experience which is important to me.

I am visiting UNC this weekend to check it out, but I don't think I have time to visit CUNY.

Both look like good options, and I don't know which to choose, but I have to choose pretty soon!

Any advice?

 

[knp]

Have you spoken with anyone at CUNY? Have they offered to have you Skype with anybody? What about at UNC? I would lean toward whichever department made more effort to—even if you can't visit in person—get you connected with professors and scholars to talk about living there, the cost of attendance, intellectual environment, coursework, research, everything. You should be talking to way more than just the professor who is the single person most likely to chair your dissertation committee: financial support is really important, e.g., but no professor has really any experience with trying to live in a given area given the support they're offering to PhD students now. (Even if they got their PhD at the institution, things have changed since they started!) So I would try to talk to about three professors and about two students at each institution, whether or not you can visit.

UNC is also a program where you will get/have to teach a lot, although it might not be during your very first year, so I wouldn't necessarily make that the deciding factor. I am a little bit less than familiar with UNC history's requirements, but in other fields they are known for being both fairly undergrad-focused and for not having many departmental resources to fund their students aside from teaching, both of which should increase your teaching opportunities.

Why are you visiting UNC this weekend, by the way? Is it a lot closer to you than CUNY? I would have thought that, given limited resources, it would make more sense to visit the program towards which you're leaning.

There are also varying degrees of difficulty in creating fits around different project, and luckily for you, your topic is one that you should be able to find good fits "around" even if your dissertation chair doesn't fit your topic exactly. How many early USists does UNC have? What about CUNY? Because you're in a field where scholars are fairly plentiful—unlike somebody who might study the medieval Czech Republic, e.g.—I would lean toward whichever university has a stronger early USist group, not whichever has the single closest professor for your interests. I mean, if they line up, that's even better! But I would still argue that if one of the schools has 4-5 scholars of the early US, even if none of them have ever worked on classical reception or even worked on that much politics, you might get better advising than at a place where one scholar is a better match but there's only one other person in your region. Also, does either department have somebody who has ever studied a similar theme in a different time during the United States, or perhaps even in a different region? That would help. And how are the faculty in related departments—are there reception studies people you could talk to in classics, or anyone in English studies who might have touched on this, or in American culture studies, or anything similar? I have no idea what the answers to any of these questions are, but I hope they're a good place to start!

[ClassApp]

Hi! Unfortunately I know very little about graduate studies in US History, but I'm a Classics undergrad at UNC currently looking at PhD programs for next year. Sorry I can't say much about CUNY, but I can say that UNC's Classics department is exceptionally strong, and that if you're going to be taking courses in the classics (it sounds like you might need to/want to), you'll be well-situated here. Not sure exactly what/when you're interested in as far as "classical antiquity", but we have a fabulous Cicero scholar (Grillo) as well as an amazing Vergil/Republican/Augustan poetry professor (O'Hara), and Prof. Rives is wonderful and studies Roman law and religion. If you're more into the later stuff, Prof. Babcock is about the coolest person around (and of course extremely well-respected in the field). Talbert and Naidan are, as I'm sure you know, also great (I'm more into literature so I don't know them as well). Just wanted to say that you'll have a great backbone of support here as far as Classics/Ancient History goes. The Classics department gets along really, really well--no worries about any sort of department divide, and the grad students are all friends too (not just polite/friendly, as some are at other institutions). Also wanted to echo the previous poster--grad students here do get lots of good teaching experience, from my understanding (definitely in Classics and I think in related fields like history as well).

I also wanted to add that I am, in a way, in a similar position for my own graduate school. My research interests fit best with a lower-ranked school. It's a very hard decision, but I think it's important to remember that a lot of people change their mind, and that you might want to give yourself every chance you can at a job (which may mean that the ranking matters more than it should...). If you have a strong background in your stated interest, you will be able to continue that research in graduate school even if your professor's research isn't an exact fit.

Finally, listen to your gut and really give weight to your future happiness in your decision. Grad school is hard enough--don't make it harder by forcing yourself to be miserable all the time.

If you have any questions about UNC that you think I might be able to help with, just let me know! Good luck!

OH! If you'll be here this weekend--I'm not sure what your schedule/plans are, but there is the UNC-Duke Classics Graduate Colloquium on Saturday. You should absolutely go for as much of it as you possibly can if you're interested in studying/teaching anything about classical antiquity (or, frankly, even if you aren't). The focus this year is teaching controversial topics in the Classics. I can't find the flyer online with a 3-second google, but just call L.E. at the Classics office and she'll give you all the information about it (I think it starts around 9am? Don't remember now). Or just stop by on Friday! The Classics Department is in Murphey Hall (office is on the second floor).

[juilletmercredi]

History (and indeed, the humanities in general) is not my field. However, I've gotten the impression from acquaintances that exact advisor research fit is far less important there than in the sciences and experimental social sciences, since the work is more independent and the resources for it are less dependent on your advisor and their research group. I've gotten the impression that the important part is your advisor's relationship with you and ability and desire to guide you at a decently high level in your research. I would talk to someone actually in the humanities for more guidance on that.

Also, humanities scholars will get no shortage of teaching experience if they want it. There are lots of universities and colleges in the general Research Triangle area that you could adjunct teach at when the time comes to get experience, and I'm willing to bet that there are lots of intro classes at UNC waiting to be taught. To be frank, teaching less (especially in the beginning) might be a good thing for you - it'll help you finish faster. You can discuss that with someone in the department for more details, obviously.

But my thoughts are - particularly if you're interested in an academic career at all - the reputation of your program and department is going to one of the more important factors when it comes to landing post-PhD opportunities. So if one program is significantly better-reputed than the other, I'd think hard about whether there was a way for you to get close to what you want at the top program. (If they're pretty close to each other, of course, then other factors come into play.)

[SunshineLolipops]

I'm utterly biased, but I hope CUNY really knocks your socks off.  Hopefully their funding beats the funding at UNC.  Good luck with your decision!