Being an international student - advantages v problems

[gremot]

So I've been thinking to ask other forum members how are international students rated during application processes... Do we have some advantages/disadvantages compared to US students?

Some days it feels that my strongest argument for getting into one of the tops is the fact that I'm a female student from eastern europe :D might sound crazy but ?!?

Advantages: (I could think of two)

cultural enrichment - some schools I guess try to maintain a very international campus

research experience - most internationals tend to have a masters degree with years of experience

Disadvatages:

Not understandable GPA score (a lot of different grading systems)

undergrad studies from a university noone will know about (might effect the value of GPA)

GRE results - nonnative speaker with a verbal score of 800 would be rare, not to mention the lack of information, preparation materials and even test times and places (GRE subject once a year in november - so my scores are late for ALL programs), had to leave the country to take the general GRE

LOR-s - professors might not know exactly what american programs expect and how to write it

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

Well, I can tell you one thing about CWRU - it is very culturally diverse. You should have no problem as a foreigner, and it could even be to your advantage here.

Actually, which department did you apply to? I might even know someone that's on the admissions committee (!).

[fuzzylogician]

I think this differs from department to department and the emphasis that is placed on diversity.

I guess the main advantage internationals have is, as you say, diversity in culture and research. Most, if not all, do indeed have their masters and they're usually more mature than some Americans*. The biggest disadvantage in my opinion doesn't have anything to do with the things you listed - it's having less funding resources. This is mostly true for public universities, where domestic students pay a different rate than internationals. One California school I was applying to last year could only afford to accept one international, the rest had to be Americans.

There are of course also the issues of less familiar grading systems and lor writers, but I've found that every place I applied to did understand how the grades at my university worked and knew my recommenders (at least by name). I think there's more diversity in grading systems even within the US than you might think. As far as the gre goes, to the best of my knowledge schools treat low verbal scores more leniently when the applicant is international. It's not a major part of the application anyway. A department's opinion of your credentials will also be affected by whether or not it's had students from your university before. If your university has a good reputation, then the departments you're applying to are likelier to want to accept students from there. The same is true for American universities, but I guess more foreign institutions will be unfamiliar to US schools than local universities. But it depends.

*Yes, this is a generalization and has many exceptions. But all in all I think it's fair to say that +25yr olds who got their masters and moved halfway across the world to pursue their studies tend to be more mature than 22yr olds straight out of undergrads.

[JustChill]

I'm a US citizen and have lived here for the past decade, but I was born and raised in the former Soviet Union. All of my professors tell me that this is going to be an advantage for me in the applications process, because elite American universities love to admit students -- be they foreign citizens or simply "heritage" Americans -- who have a unique understanding of other cultures and, maybe more importantly, a native-level knowledge of a language. Foreign students are always going to have a different (but by all means not necessarily superior) vantage point from domestic students when conducting research into a country or culture with which they are intimately acquainted. So, I would definitely say that being a foreign applicant is not going to hurt you in the least, and in fact should work in your favor.

[modernity]

I'll add the question, how about for US students going to the UK or other European schools? Similar advantages/disadvantages (besides the GRE of course)?

[argos]

I'll add the question, how about for US students going to the UK or other European schools? Similar advantages/disadvantages (besides the GRE of course)?

I think the main problem for US applicants is that most EU position require a MSc degree. Additionally, while there are some US-style graduate schools, in many places the guy who gets the funding money has all the power in selecting his applicants, making the process somewhat more arbitrary.

But the diversity-advantage should be there as well, although somewhat diluted since there are usually many "international" applicants from other European countries.

[JerryLandis]

The Masters programs at my UK university are filled with Americans. This is because anyone who is not an EU citizen has to pay much higher tuition than EU folks, and even higher than UK people. Because my university somehow always manages to be hovering on bankruptcy, the way universities do, it accepts a disproportionate number of American students to cash in on the higher tuition fees. So I would say that Americans probably have an easier time getting into the Masters programs, although not PhD (I don't know much about PhDs here at all). However, this preference towards 'diverse' candidates produces anything but a diverse class; of all the masters students I have met here in my discipline, all but one has been North American.

[dzk]

As fuzzy said, the main disadvantage for you, as a biology applicant, is not any of the things you listed, but that federal training grants (in addition to others) are not available to international students. Unless you're coming in with your own funding, the program has to find a source that can pay the tuition and stipend for an international student. Programs with funding issues (which, this year, is most of them) will have two pools of applicants... U.S. and everyone else.

Some larger private programs in good financial shape could be able to admit as much as 50% of their class as international students. Big publicly funded programs like California, Michigan, Texas, etc.? Maybe one in ten.

Did you apply to PIBS @ Michigan? They got 700 applicants. I don't know how many spots there are this year, though. Good luck.

[edit: Also, you seem to be under the impression that your GPA and GRE scores matter for biology programs. Not really. If you're above the cut-off, you're fine. Research experience, research experience, research experience.]

[edit 2: Oh, hey. It looks like you have funding through Fulbright? Yeah, if I made you worry, then you can stop now Applying with funding, several years of experience, and a middle-author publication, you're easily in the top tier of applicants.]

Edited December 15, 2009 by iggy

[gremot]

Did you apply to PIBS @ Michigan? They got 700 applicants. I don't know how many spots there are this year, though. Good luck.

Thanks! 700 sounds like a lot

[edit: Also, you seem to be under the impression that your GPA and GRE scores matter for biology programs. Not really. If you're above the cut-off, you're fine. Research experience, research experience, research experience.]

[

Sure, I don't think it's the most important part as well, but the question always is, am I above the cut-off And I think it's really hard for them to measure the research experience... I really wouldn't want to be one of those commitee members...

[edit 2: Oh, hey. It looks like you have funding through Fulbright? Yeah, if I made you worry, then you can stop now Applying with funding, several years of experience, and a middle-author publication, you're easily in the top tier of applicants.]

Yup, I am free of the funding worries - but fulbright has it's bad sides as well - I have not been allowed to contact any staff... this might seriously hurt my "fit" but I guess I have to hope for the best.

Edited December 15, 2009 by gremot

[melusine]

Pros: diversity, maturity, all listed above..

Cons: the SOP... trying to condense and relate in a concise and credible manner a background that usually takes a couple hours to explain!

I mean, in my case, I am a citizen of country A, whose family moved to country B at a young age, who did all her schooling in country C and her university in country D. Now try to justify, in those pesky little one-line boxes they give you i the online application forms, how on earth it is possible that you are a "native speaker" of languages A and C, a damn close-enough "native speaker" in language D, and still quite fluent in language B..

I have the nagging feeling they will think I am either a joke or a fraud, or, given how inarticulate the little boxes make me sound, a braggart who speaks a lot of languages all equally poorly.

MEH!

[peppermint.beatnik]

Being Canadian is not an advantage, even though we are still classified as "international students."