Chances of getting into top aero/astro grad schools

[aerodreamer]

Hi there,

           I am a third-year aerospace undergraduate student who is doing a full-year internship right now. I will continue my 4th year study this coming fall and will apply for graduate schools for the 2017 term. I need some opinions about my chances of getting into top aero/astro graduate programs in the US, including MIT, Stanford, and Caltech etc.

•            Undergraduate Institute/Program: University of Toronto, Engineering Science
•            cGPA: 3.83/4.0
•            3rd year major GPA: 3.99/4.0
•            GRE:   V164, Q170, AW: 5
•            Research / Industrial Experiences: 2 summer research; 1 full-year internship (flight sciences engineer intern in Bombardier);   1 thesis project ( starting this summer)

 

           My concerns are about my cGPA and my research experiences:  

• Will my cGPA be a disadvantage for my application? The number is around the low end of the published stats of the admitted students. However, considering the good reputation of my school and program, will the graduate admission committee consider my cGPA more leniently? I've also noted reports on grade inflation in Ivy league schools in the States (is it true for engineering programs?) , and will the graduate committee regard my cGPA at a similar level to a 3.9 from those US undergrad schools?

 

• Will my industrial experience increase my chances ? The work is mostly not about research, and includes writing codes, writing design study reports, and doing aircraft performance simulations and analysis. On a positive side, my boss got a PHD from stanford aero way back in the early 90s, and I want to ask him to provide me a reference letter. Would this help much? 

 

• My 4th year thesis project supervisor is a very well-known professor in CFD, and I will for sure ask him to provide me a reference letter. However, by the time I require the letter from him, I will have only worked with him for 3-4 months in part time. So I should not regard his reference as a strong one, should I?

 

• Regarding my summer research in aerodynamics, it lasted about 3 months in full time. I worked with a well-known professor in TU-Darmstadt, Germany (an okay but not a top school). I did fairly well, so I assume I will get a decent reference from this professor.  How should I evaluate the quality of this reference, in weighing the not-so-good reputation of the institution but the good quality work I have done?

 

With all the information above, I am wondering how I am ranked in general among the pool of the prospective applicants for the top 3 aero/astro graduate programs. More particularly, will I be competing with the international applicants only or with all applicants?  Secondly, what can I do to increase the chances of admission in selecting the prospective research labs/ professors that I want to work with in the application? Does this matter a lot for a master program application? I know the PHD applicants need to look at this more carefully in case some labs are full already.

Any insider's knowledge will help. Thanks a lot.

Edited April 22, 2016 by aerodreamer
Pre-mature publication by accident

[aerodreamer]

Thank you for your reply, eternallyephemeral.  It's nice to know about the funding issues related to the public schools, and I will look for more information on that to see whether it will apply to my case. 

As for poster presentations, I've only done two research presentations that were internal to the departments I was working with, and I don't think those matter too much. I am currently in the process of co-authoring a paper on the aerodynamics project I worked on in Germany. It is still uncertain whether that will be published eventually, but I am trying my best to make it happen. 

You are absolutely right about applying to more schools other than only the top 3 and looking for great professors and research areas specifically. However I think my goal is to only attempt the tier 1-2 schools in the States, so eventually I may apply to 8 schools at most. If I could not get into any of those, I am happy to stay in UofT, because I don't think it worth much going to an expensive school in the US that is just as good as UofT, in which every aerospace graduate (research type) student is almost guaranteed to receive full funding. 

Thanks again for the information. I am well aware of the intense competition out there, but on the other hand, I don't regard getting into a top school as the most important thing in my academic studies. After all, learning is primarily a matter of personal discipline in which big name schools can only play a subsidiary role.

[eternallyephemeral]

Hey fellow U of T undergrad! As soon as you said you were doing a full-time internship between your third and fourth years, I immediately thought of PEY.

I'm not in aero, but I did apply to top US schools as a Canadian applicant, and there are a few things you should know before applying (that I wish I had known).

Your boss' reference letter may help, but I would include it as a third one and have professors write the other two, if possible. It's okay to have your thesis supervisor write you a letter, especially if you're starting your thesis in the summer and not just in September. I did this, and it went very well. Also, when you ask your thesis supervisor if he or she can provide a letter, if they can't write a good one, often they will decline to write one which saves you the worrying.

A reference letter from someone the admissions committee knows, that also says a lot about you, is ideal. However, those are quite impossible to get, so the next best thing is to get a good reference from someone who worked with you. For example, if you got a letter from one of your instructors at U of T compared to a summer research supervisor at TU-Darmstadt, that would not be as good of a letter even though U of T might look better than this other school. So keep that in mind.

If you're only interested in applying to the US, then please consider private schools much more than publicly funded schools if you want a funded program. I've been told countless times by many people that state schools are very limited in funding, and unless you are absolutely perfect/stellar and stand out compared to not only all international applicants, but all domestic applicants (and there are many, because these are top schools and the US is very large), then it's difficult for them to justify paying 2-3x more to have you than a comparable applicant from within the US. And that's because the government subsidizes tuition for domestic students for grad school, but not for international students. For private schools, this does not happen, which means all students cost the same amount. Therefore, you should focus on applying to private schools. However, if the masters are typically not funded, I guess the above doesn't apply. I would then ignore what I just said, because it applies more to PhD programs.

 

Have you done any poster presentations? Are you working on any papers? I think you would be competitive, so it's not a complete waste to apply, but I would also look into other places that have a good research fit for you. The top schools are awesome to go to, but many other schools will have professors trained at these three where you can still get an excellent education. If these were the only three you were applying to, I would definitely suggest adding some schools that are less competitive. These three schools likely only take a few students each year, but they get hundreds of applicants, so even if you're competitive, nothing is guaranteed.

Hope that helps, and I hope someone from aero specifically can come in and correct anything I've said/add a lot more info.

[eternallyephemeral]

Just now, aerodreamer said:

Thank you for your reply, eternallyephemeral.  It's nice to know about the funding issues related to the public schools, and I will look for more information on that to see whether it will apply to my case. 

As for poster presentations, I've only done two research presentations that were internal to the departments I was working with, and I don't think those matter too much. I am currently in the process of co-authoring a paper on the aerodynamics project I worked on in Germany. It is still uncertain whether that will be published eventually, but I am trying my best to make it happen. 

You are absolutely right about applying to more schools other than only the top 3 and looking for great professors and research areas specifically. However I think my goal is to only attempt the tier 1-2 schools in the States, so eventually I may apply to 8 schools at most. If I could not get into any of those, I am happy to stay in UofT, because I don't think it worth much going to an expensive school in the US that is just as good as UofT, in which every aerospace graduate (research type) student is almost guaranteed to receive full funding. 

Thanks again for the information. I am well aware of the intense competition out there, but on the other hand, I don't regard getting into a top school as the most important thing in my academic studies. After all, learning is primarily a matter of personal discipline in which big name schools can only play a subsidiary role.

No problem! I think you have a good perspective on the cost/prestige balance and the issues with being an international student. It's interesting that you frame it that way (you want to apply to tier 1/2 schools in the US because U of T is a pretty good place to go and have a better chance at funding). I never thought about my application choices like that, but I probably was only choosing places in the US that were higher ranked than U of T, knowing that if I wanted something lower, I would apply to somewhere in Canada where I would be more likely to get in and be more likely to get funding.

Your last sentence is absolutely correct. Your performance is primarily based on how hard you work, and the secondary things are school and ranking related. A good person at a worse school will do better than a worse person at a better school.

Eight schools is a good maximum. I applied to eight schools (for PhD programs), and it might even be on the high side for Masters, as they usually accept more people than PhDs and they usually (but not always) have lower requirements than PhDs (partly because they take in more people, and partly because you are earlier in your career so they don't expect as much).

Good luck with your research and your thesis!