Do I have a shot at these oublic policy schools?

[inquirycat]

I am applying to Heinz School (Carnegie Mellon), UMichigan, NYU Wagner, Georgia Tech, Arizona State, Lyndon B. Johnson (UTexas), U. Maryland, and some other similar programs in public policy.

-My undergraduate GPA is 3.05, in economics.

- I have withdrawn from one (not more) class for just about every year of my study. I have thus averaged 13 or so credits per semester.

- My in-major GPA is 3.3.

-The classes I have withdrawn from have either been: a.) Not in my major. b.) Calculus 2.

-I eventually received an A- in Calculus 2.

-I have received a B in Calc 1, A- in Calculus 2, B+ in linear algebra, B in statistics (advanced intro class), A- in econometrics.

-This semester (fall), I took 4 advanced math courses to try and "show" my quantitative ability. I did quite poorly (D, C, C, .

-Thus, I am applying without this latest semester.

Positives:

-I was told that while my transcript/GPA is, by far, my weakest link... It is not in the "atrocious" level... Even with the withdraws.

-GRE was 750 Q, 560 V. Writing still coming in.

-Everyone who has read my personal statement has said that it is strong.

-Along with the 4 math courses, I took a graduate-level public affairs course and received an A... They, again, will not be able to see this "A" since I am not sending in the transcript. I will, however, be getting a recommendation from the professor and will politely let him know that the only way their committee would know what I received in his class would be through his recommendation.

-I have, for the past 2 years, volunteered locally and also worked part-time. Perhaps this will explain my GPA a little bit.

-I have volunteered abroad for 5 weeks.

-My recommenders are an economics professor, the graduate public affairs professor, and a professor from where I studied abroad... Who also help set up my volunteer stint abroad.

For most schools, the "stats" look as such:

GPA: 3.5

GRE: 670Q, 600V, 5 W

Carnegie Mellon, for example, has about a 667Q, 548V (probably a lot of international students), 4.5 W. 3.6 GPA.

Do you think, if I apply to all of these schools, I will have a shot? I don't really have much to hide. I didn't do well as an undergrad, and wasn't driven. I did do part-time work and was volunteering, but I think there are plenty of students who do that and still pull a high GPA with no withdraws. My transcript is a weakness, and a big one. My strength is my 750 Q score, which is far above what any of these schools average. If most of them are at a 670 Q average, and receive 400 or so applications, I would assume that maybe 15 of the applicants score a 750 Q. Also, I believe my personal statement, which mentions all three of my recommenders by name, and the recommendations themselves, will look strong.

My optimistic side says: The schools look at the whole application and say, "Wow, this guy didn't do very well as an undergrad... Maybe it was because he was volunteering and working part-time. But the other stuff looks great, and if he's applying, and since his personal statement is clear and strong, he must have a purpose. And we don't often get someone with a 750 Q on their first try.

My pessimistic side says: They will take a look and say, "Yeah, this guy is talented... But overall, his undergraduate transcript shows he may not be very hard-working, and even though he will pay to attend our institution and seemingly wants to be here, we just don't want someone who had this undergrad record."

What are your thoughts?

And thank you for taking the time to read this, I really appreciate any input/tips, anything.

[Tam]

Will you need quantitative skills in graduate school? If so, what will change to make you have them, since you've done poorly in past math classes, including just this semester? And what will change to make you able to work hard for a purpose? I realize I'm seeing what you wrote and not looking at your application, but I'm concerned about your ability to perform in graduate school. How much more concerned will the admissions committees be?

[modernity]

Was your volunteer work or part time work relevant to what you want to do? That will help more than it being an explanation for weak grades.

I find myself wanting to ask you... why if you are having difficulty with math, do you want to go into a field with presumably a large amount of quant? I'm thinking an adcomm is going to ask this too.

I assume by saying that you're not sending in the latest semester's transcripts that you are factoring your GPA without them? You are also aware that they could see those grades in the future/sometimes admit you conditionally with the requirement that you provide your final grades from your undergrad institution upon completion?

I think your chance of getting in relies heavily on how you're going to makeup for a weak transcript - with the relevant work, and volunteer experience. Your GRE Q score may also help- but it depends on how much weight these schools put on the GRE because some give it very little value. I don't think that your background will lock you out, as long as you do well on the other points of your application - and your LORs are stellar.

[inquirycat]

My general reply, to both statements above:

-Why I would be driven in grad school is a fair question. I am hoping that my personal statement, as well as my recommendations (and my A in the graduate-level class) will work to allay that worry at least a little bit.

-The latest two grades they will see in the transcript are a B+ in Linear Algebra and an A- in Calc 2.

-The courses in math I have struggled in are above and beyond what these schools look for. They, for the most part, want the student to be competent in college-level algebra. I think my 750Q, as well an A- in Calc 2, manages to show that I have the level of math they require.

-It's true, none the less, that advanced math courses do not come easy to me. I am not "great" in math, of course. But, then again, I'm not applying for a PhD in economics or a engineering degree... I am applying to schools where a lot of the incoming majors are psychology or poli sci undergrad students, i.e. students who are not traditionally good at math. I think it's key to note that most of these schools want a "competence in basic statistics and college level algebra." And, they say, when this is not shown through course-work, they also use the GRE to assess candidates. My point is that I think my competence in basic statistics and college level algebra are entirely evident. My competence in the advanced math courses that would be required by an engineering school, however, is not evident. I think that, basically, saying I want to be in a "quantitative MPP program" is akin to saying, "Okay, my math isn't good enough for an egineering school, but that doesn't mean I'm not good with numbers in general... I'm good enough to do regression analysis, not good enough to work in materials engineering."

-My volunteer experience at home (working with foreigners who possess little English) and abroad (teaching English to impoverished communities) is, in my opinion, linked to the concentration of Economic Development that I want to go into. Even if the link is not clear, I think in general, public policy schools look favorably upon volunteer experience, even if it is not specifically relevant.

-My part-time job was working for a non-profit organization... Although, in truth, it was to earn money help fund my education and has nothing to do with the career path I desire... Hence why I am not making it a part of my personal statement, but merely listing it on the resume.

I guess I would like to add that if I do not get in this year, my goal would be, basically, to repeat the courses that I do not do well in this semester (so 2 of them), and take 3 new ones (but not mathematical), do well, and apply again for next Fall.

[necreation]

I am applying to MPP/MPA programs at NYU (Wagner) and CMU (Heinz- MSPPM) for the Fall of 2010 and figured I would jump in and give you my two cents on those two...

Having talked to people on the adcom at CMU I think you have a pretty decent shot IF your personal statement is as strong as you say it is. In my opinion, I think that they want to see people who will do well quantitatively but who are also passionate about policy qualitatively. In other words, they are going to take everything into account. Your quant GRE score will definitely look good as will your quantitative classes- whichever ones you ultimately decide to send to them. Yes, the grades you got in those courses matter, but I think that exposure to college level math in general will look good. For instance, people with relatively no math background still get acceptances and are asked to take a summer session prior to their first year. So you have more than demonstrated your quantitative ability in that regard.

Another note is that CMU says that they are starting to take more people right out of undergrad (which from my research on other mpp/mpa programs is not common). I'm not sure if you are applying right out of undegrad, but either way...your work experience will look good. I would worry more about quality over quantity as far as experience is concerned with CMU. Making your past experiences connect to your future academic and career goals is crucial.

Also, I personally would include all my information from every school and every course I had taken. But I understand your hesitance. You can always explain your lower grades due to the rigor of the courses and any other concerns such as your overall gpa in the optional essay. I would take advantage of every opportunity to show them that you want to be at their school next fall. But that's just my personal take on the matter. Having your professor write the grade in the letter of recommendation is fantastic, but the more they see it (i.e. in official transcripts) the more it solidifies for them that you are a good choice. I too took grad-level stats, econ and policy analysis classes this past summer and got A's. I sent them those transcripts and have the LORs to back it up even though the summer grades are not reflected in my overall undergad gpa.

For NYU, I am less certain of anyone's chances. I am thinking that their process is more competitive in general because of its location and number of very strong applicants, allowing them to be highly selective. I also think that full time work experience matters a bit more. Having said that, I think your GRE score will definitely still be solid amongst other applicants. Just as long as your LORs and SOP are strong too, I think you have a fighting chance.

I am not applying to U. of Maryland, but I am pretty sure that you could consider this school a "safety" compared to CMU and NYU from what I have read in passing. I have not researched the others.

Hope this helps! And good luck with applications (I assume you're still in the process of applying...)!

One other note: You may try posting this in the gov't affairs section of the forum for more responses. All the mpp/mpa applicants usually hang out in there.

Edited December 16, 2009 by necreation