Languages

[Thanks4Downvoting]

When entering to my Mdiv program, I will be able to say the following about my language proficiencies:

Classical and Medieval Latin - 3 years

Greek - 1 year

My question is this: Will I be able to learn enough during my 3 years at my Mdiv, to be proficicent enough to go on to get a PhD (Historical Theology or Church History? Focusing on the Medieval of Course ).

The way I understand it is:

I will need to improve my proficiency in Greek

Learn Hebrew/Syriac

Learn French or German...

Will I be able to do it? I assume this needs to be an ongoing thing that I do throughout my 3 years wherever I end up, and that I'll be able to take al these languages, but is 3 years enough time?

Thanks,

[Febronia]

When entering to my Mdiv program, I will be able to say the following about my language proficiencies:

Classical and Medieval Latin - 3 years

Greek - 1 year

My question is this: Will I be able to learn enough during my 3 years at my Mdiv, to be proficicent enough to go on to get a PhD (Historical Theology or Church History? Focusing on the Medieval of Course ).

The way I understand it is:

I will need to improve my proficiency in Greek

Learn Hebrew/Syriac

Learn French or German...

Will I be able to do it? I assume this needs to be an ongoing thing that I do throughout my 3 years wherever I end up, and that I'll be able to take al these languages, but is 3 years enough time?

Thanks,

Short answer--yes. Slightly longer answer--your Latin is already in pretty good shape, and that's the most important thing. You'll want to keep that up, and add either French or German or maybe both. Would Hebrew or Syriac be such a high priority if you want to do medieval Christianity? It seems to me like if you have extra language time it might be better to focus on some of the Western European vernaculars? Now, I say that as a Syriac specialist, but since Syriac doesn't seem all that central to your research interests, that's the sort of thing that could wait until a doctorate, if you decide you want it at all.

And don't forget the summers for intensive language programs also!

[Thanks4Downvoting]

I definitely have an interest in adding Syriac eventually, but thanks for the response. I was getting slightly intimidated by the depth of what was going to be required of me linguistically. Not that I don't thoroughly enjoy it or anything. I'm definitely a huge fan of Medieval Latin, which, I suppose, is a wonderful thing for my interests.

Thanks again! You're a lifesaver!

[LateAntique]

I too am trying to figure out how I'm going to cram all of what I want to do into my educational timeline. If I get into an MA, I'll have more time to develop my languages, but the Ph.D programs to which I'm applying are all 5-6 years, two of which are Classics (and thus will not count learning Coptic and/or Syriac towards my degree, but I can still fit it in if I have time). I'm hoping I can do some summer intensives, but we'll see.

[Thanks4Downvoting]

I too am trying to figure out how I'm going to cram all of what I want to do into my educational timeline. If I get into an MA, I'll have more time to develop my languages, but the Ph.D programs to which I'm applying are all 5-6 years, two of which are Classics (and thus will not count learning Coptic and/or Syriac towards my degree, but I can still fit it in if I have time). I'm hoping I can do some summer intensives, but we'll see.

It's just one more thing to worry about, huh? It's definitely tough to get this kinda stuff figured out.

[Sparky]

Generally, language requirements for Ph.D HT are: Latin, ancient Greek, modern French, modern German.

The rule is that you have to be proficient in those by the time you pass comps, NOT by the time you enter the program. However, it is not a good idea to *start* a Ph.D with zero languages. Most people can knock off 1-2 tests immediately.

If your specific focus lends itself to a substitution, you are often allowed to make one (that is, "one" the number; 2 subs is rare)--if you study liberation theology, for example, swapping Spanish for German or French. BUT in other cases you might just have to add. If I stay with HT, I will have to add Italian, but will be able to swap MIddle High German for Greek. So I'll wind up having to pass 5 proficiency tests.

THis is how the profs at my current school explained it to me. We're typical for HT.

ETA: Proficiency tests

Generally, of two types. In one type, you pick an article/text in another language, give X pages to the department; they give you back a few of those pages to translate. In the other type, the department picks a short text (like, a page or so) and you translate it, sight unseen. It's not as bad as you're probably thinking--your Latin does not have to be perfect to pass the Latin proficiency, in other words.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Sparky

[Thanks4Downvoting]

Generally, language requirements for Ph.D HT are: Latin, ancient Greek, modern French, modern German.

The rule is that you have to be proficient in those by the time you pass comps, NOT by the time you enter the program. However, it is not a good idea to *start* a Ph.D with zero languages. Most people can knock off 1-2 tests immediately.

If your specific focus lends itself to a substitution, you are often allowed to make one (that is, "one" the number; 2 subs is rare)--if you study liberation theology, for example, swapping Spanish for German or French. BUT in other cases you might just have to add. If I stay with HT, I will have to add Italian, but will be able to swap MIddle High German for Greek. So I'll wind up having to pass 5 proficiency tests.

THis is how the profs at my current school explained it to me. We're typical for HT.

ETA: Proficiency tests

Generally, of two types. In one type, you pick an article/text in another language, give X pages to the department; they give you back a few of those pages to translate. In the other type, the department picks a short text (like, a page or so) and you translate it, sight unseen. It's not as bad as you're probably thinking--your Latin does not have to be perfect to pass the Latin proficiency, in other words.

Thanks for the additional information!

[Thanks4Downvoting]

This conversation makes me feel much better, considering I have 3 more years after my undergrad to add languages before my PhD.

[thekidisalright]

Also, the standard for competency in a modern language (French and German) is not as intensive as that of an ancient language--usually a 6-week summer course is enough. I took a French course on top of an intensive beginning Latin course during one of my MTS summers and passed easily (and I hate languages/slacked a lot). I had friends who taught themselves with the book and just passed a reading exam.

[Thanks4Downvoting]

Also, the standard for competency in a modern language (French and German) is not as intensive as that of an ancient language--usually a 6-week summer course is enough. I took a French course on top of an intensive beginning Latin course during one of my MTS summers and passed easily (and I hate languages/slacked a lot). I had friends who taught themselves with the book and just passed a reading exam.

It's an odd requirement if it's so easy to pass the proficiency test...

[LateAntique]

It's an odd requirement if it's so easy to pass the proficiency test...

It depends on the field. Classics tends to be more strict in what they expect their students to do in terms of modern research languages. There is definitely a different feel amongst grad students that I've met in Classics vs. those in Religion/Theology.

[Sparky]

It depends on the field. Classics tends to be more strict in what they expect their students to do in terms of modern research languages. There is definitely a different feel amongst grad students that I've met in Classics vs. those in Religion/Theology.

In my dept, the proficiency tests for modern languages are exactly the same as the ancient ones. Additionally, profs--especially patristics and medieval--usually want us (including the MA students) to have at least one non-English secondary source cited in each paper.

But this is HT, which seems to be closer in attitude to the Classics dept at my univ. than to some systematics-heavy theology departments with which I am familiar.

--

To the OP: for medieval, you will need both German and French. And you'll actually have to know them, not just "know them for the test."

But, of course, medieval is totally worth it.

[Thanks4Downvoting]

In my dept, the proficiency tests for modern languages are exactly the same as the ancient ones. Additionally, profs--especially patristics and medieval--usually want us (including the MA students) to have at least one non-English secondary source cited in each paper.

But this is HT, which seems to be closer in attitude to the Classics dept at my univ. than to some systematics-heavy theology departments with which I am familiar.

--

To the OP: for medieval, you will need both German and French. And you'll actually have to know them, not just "know them for the test."

But, of course, medieval is totally worth it.

Oh, I'm sure it'll be so worth it. I get a kick out of languages anyway. That, coupled with the fact that I love challenges, makes it even more appealing.