Applying to a new PhD program after quitting my old one. What do I do about letters?!

[fadedfigures]

I was enrolled in an R1 PhD program for the last few years, and did relatively okay. However, I have been butting heads with my advisor for about two years. Our working relationship deteriorated quickly, and she became cold towards me. Others have described the situation as toxic, and I have recently decided I was tired of dealing with it. For this and other reasons, I quit. I will be receiving my terminal Masters from the program and moving on with my life. 

 

However, I do want to get a PhD and work in academia. I discussed it with my partner and with a research collaborator, and their encouragement has solidified my decision to apply for PhD programs in the fall. Unlike when I first applied (when I had zero idea what I was doing), I now have a competitive application. I have a solid number of conference presentations, posters, and research manuscripts under review. I won the NSF GRF during my time at my current program, and I will at least walk away with my MA. I have strong GRE scores as well, and experience in being the instructor of record for a few courses. I will also have strong application statements, as I have successfully gotten both myself and students that I have mentored into grad school before. 

 

The only barrier is the letters of recommendation. My former advisor said that she does not support me applying to new programs unless I take a few years off first. To me, that screams "I will not write you a letter," and that worries me. Missing a letter from my former advisor will be a huge red flag, but one of the professors I collaborate with thinks that the old advisor will write one anyway. She thinks withholding a letter would be "excessive" and "unnecessarily harsh." She said I should not let my old advisor sabotage what I want to do, and suggested I ask her for a recommendation anyway. If worse comes to worse, she said a strong set of letters would override the absent advisor letter. But I am nevertheless worried. 

 

The idea of starting over in a new location with a new advisor makes me feel energized, so I will be going back on the grad school market! The timing will makes sense for many reasons, so I would like to apply this upcoming year. Any advice for what to do would be fantastic! Thank you so much for your help!

 

[fuzzylogician]

To me this sounds like a situation where you do not want a letter from your advisor. She has already said that she will not support your application right now, and you have to know that means that the letter will not be (entirely) positive and will include some discussion of her perspective for why you're not ready to go to grad school now and why you couldn't be successful as her advisee. This doesn't sound like a letter that you want to have, although yes, not having a letter from your advisor is also a red flag. I think that there are two options here. One, if you are able to, have a meeting with her where you say "I understand and appreciate your advice, but I nonetheless hope to apply to PhD programs this coming fall. Will you agree to write me a letter?"; now a lot will depend both on her actual verbal response and on her body language. If she says some form of "yes" then you should explicitly ask what she will say in the letter, so you can decide if that is something you want to have. The alternative is not to ask her (or to talk to her and decide that she is a bad option) and get instead a letter from someone else at your school who knows the situation up close and can explain why you are not getting a letter from your advisor and why despite that, you are still a strong applicant for the PhD program. I think that even with a letter from your advisor, you really need one unmitigatedly positive letter from someone else at your program who can talk about the advising relationship from an outside perspective and be fully supportive of your application (which I assume your advisor will not be). 

[Apogeee]

7 hours ago, fadedfigures said:

My former advisor said that she does not support me applying to new programs unless I take a few years off first. To me, that screams "I will not write you a letter," and that worries me.

Did your former advisor give you a reason for suggesting that you delay? Before you do anything else, have an honest meeting with your advisor, in person, so you can find out what's up. Your advisor's reason could give you some insight. But without that letter, your application package isn't that competitive, and, as you know, it's not always just a letter that they have to provide. Sometimes there are other online hoops they have to jump through. You want this person on your side.