Different writing sample lengths?

[Caien]

Does anyone have any opinions/strategies on how to manage different writing sample requirements between schools? Posters here generally seem to talk about their writing sample in a way that implies they have only one. Is this what people usually do? Go with the shortest length and submit that for all applications? Or do people do light editing? 

In my case I have some schools requiring 15 pages max, some requiring 30 max, and some with a range of 15-20 or 20-25. I'm thinking I'll have one main writing sample of about 22-23 pages( and do some meddling with margins/spacing/font to get it down to 20 where I must) then have another strict 15 page/5000 word version.

Thoughts?

[Ramus]

I think that's fairly standard. I had three versions of mine: one clocking in at about 18 pages, one at 20, and the final one at 27. Unless you're only applying to three or four schools with similar application requirements, it would be really difficult to get away with having one writing sample. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Ramus

[thepriorwalter]

all i have is anecdotal evidence, but i will share my experience: the first time i applied to grad schools, all my schools asked for a sample in the 20-25 page range, so i sent all of my schools the same 25-page sample. i ended up having a fairly unsuccessful application season, but i was fortunate enough to end up in a funded master's program. 

when it was time to apply to schools at the end of my MA, rather than use anything i wrote during my MA, i used the same sample from the first round of applications (what was i doing? where were my advisers?), except this time i trimmed the sample down from 25 pages to 16. i sent the 16-page sample everywhere i applied, including schools that asked for 20-25 pages, and i was accepted to 6/8 programs i applied to (including a few offers with some extra fellowship money on top).

so, in summary, if you can get away with it, i would have one sample (to save yourself time/headache, even if you end up playing with the page lengths), and i would be sure i needed every page i sent to schools. i used a lot of the same application materials (including recommenders) between cycles and i really believe having a shorter, more concise sample aided my application.

(and, for what it's worth, the two the rejections came from the schools that asked for the shortest samples, so i don't believe "sample too short" was a factor anywhere i applied)

hope this helps!

[bhr]

I had a 15 page-ish sample (it was actually my thesis proposal+annotated bib, basically chapter one of my thesis). That's what I submitted everywhere. No one is checking page counts, and no one is reading all 25 pages from every application they get. Schools that asked for a second one got a conference paper that was 8-10 pages.

The biggest thing with writing samples and your teaching statement is to include a "readers guide" that gives people some context. This should be a one page sheet that tells them where the work came from, the context of what they are reading, and how it demonstrates your particular skill set/interest.

[Caien]

9 hours ago, thepriorwalter said:

so, in summary, if you can get away with it, i would have one sample (to save yourself time/headache, even if you end up playing with the page lengths), and i would be sure i needed every page i sent to schools.

This is what I was thinking when I started the thread, having 3/4 versions of the same essay sounds a bit dangerous - when editing it would be hard to keep track of how the argument was building, as you'd have to remember all the specific remarks, evidence etc. that you've left out for the sake of trimming a page or two.

While seeing an admissions guidelines allowing up to 30 pages might seem tempting when having to cut down a dissertation, I'm also inclined to think, as you say @thepriorwalter, that being concise may be the best thing. Particular considering the target audience is someone who will be reading dozens, if not hundreds, of these papers.

9 hours ago, bhr said:

The biggest thing with writing samples and your teaching statement is to include a "readers guide" that gives people some context. This should be a one page sheet that tells them where the work came from, the context of what they are reading, and how it demonstrates your particular skill set/interest.

I've never heard anything like this before, is it a Rhet/comp thing?

[thepriorwalter]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:27 AM, Caien said:

I've never heard anything like this before, is it a Rhet/comp thing?

my sample was a 16-page portion of one chapter of a multi-chapter work, so i included a reader's guide as bhr suggests, giving a small abstract of what i sent (what its aims are, what it argues, etc), context for what the project overall was, where the excerpt comes in the larger work, and a few takeaways and areas for extension. if your sample is a self-contained work, this 1-page document may be less important.

(i will also note that i did not include a document like this the first time i applied to schools, despite the fact that i was excerpting from the same work, so i would strong rec a document like this if your writing sample is an excerpt from a larger work.) 

[bhr]

6 hours ago, thepriorwalter said:

 if your sample is a self-contained work, this 1-page document may be less important.

Thanks for the backup, but I'll disagree with this bit. Even if it's self-contained, I think these sorts of documents are always useful. As someone on a hiring committee now, I find context for writing samples, course designs, ect. extremely helpful to let me know what I'm reading and how it falls into a larger body of scholarly work. For your writing sample, this could be as easy as including the prompt that came with it, or what the goals were for the paper.

For example, part of my MA writing sample was a paper I wrote for an American Lit class where we had to compare influences on works from two different eras. I was really proud of the paper, and thought it showcased my writing ability, but my goals would have been nonsense (I really reached to pick two very different works) without the context for the class/paper.

[unræd]

16 hours ago, bhr said:

Thanks for the backup, but I'll disagree with this bit. Even if it's self-contained, I think these sorts of documents are always useful. As someone on a hiring committee now, I find context for writing samples, course designs, ect. extremely helpful to let me know what I'm reading and how it falls into a larger body of scholarly work. For your writing sample, this could be as easy as including the prompt that came with it, or what the goals were for the paper.

For example, part of my MA writing sample was a paper I wrote for an American Lit class where we had to compare influences on works from two different eras. I was really proud of the paper, and thought it showcased my writing ability, but my goals would have been nonsense (I really reached to pick two very different works) without the context for the class/paper.

I included a statement like this for the two schools whose writing sample length limits required me to submit a smaller portion of a longer work, and in that sort of context it's certainly helpful (and often explicitly requested). And yes, certainly, of course, if the paper would appear nonsensical without contextualization because its basic warrants reflect assumptions tied to a particular prompt or course, then you should definitely provide that necessary context, but I doubt that's the case for most self-contained writing samples.

When you're presenting a whole, unexcerpted paper that presents a self-contained, sensical argument (and surely "what the goals were for the paper" are explicitly addressed within the paper itself -- part of the work of any paper is to situate itself and the question it's treating) that sort of statement isn't required, or even common. The hiring committee analogy also seems imperfect; applicants to graduate programs often don't have a "larger body of scholarly work" in which to situate a writing sample, and moreover the discussion of their work in those larger terms -- and their writing sample's place within that -- happens in the SOP. 

I'm just not sure the value of telling applicants to categorically add another preparandum their agenda, especially when it's something that admissions committees aren't requiring, requesting, or expecting.

[AnimeChic101!]

On October 6, 2016 at 0:01 AM, bhr said:

I had a 15 page-ish sample (it was actually my thesis proposal+annotated bib, basically chapter one of my thesis). That's what I submitted everywhere. No one is checking page counts, and no one is reading all 25 pages from every application they get. Schools that asked for a second one got a conference paper that was 8-10 pages.

What was your field and how did this work out for you? I may end up doing something very similar. The proposal will transform into the introduction anyways. 

[Caien]

Thanks for clarifying  @thepriorwalter and @bhr, it was the wording that threw me, 'reader's guide', I actually had one of these last year, though it wasn't as extensive as you guys seem to be suggesting.

[Bumblebea]

I DEFINITELY wish I had thought to include an abstract when I applied the second time. First time I did because I was sending an excerpt of my undergrad thesis. Second time I was sending a self-contained seminar paper. I now see how including an abstract at the beginning of that paper would have perhaps served as an "advertisement" or a preview of my writing. If you can write your abstract persuasively enough, and outline interesting stakes of your project, it could possibly help your application get attention.

As for me--I sent the same 20-page paper to most schools I applied to. I really didn't fuss with it very much. I got into two schools and waitlisted at a third, so I don't know how much that helps you. I wasn't the world's most successful applicant (I'm one of those people who became much better at grad school once I was actually in it rather than one of those people who knows how to apply).