German Proficiency

[Mathētēs]

I am using the book German Quickly: A Grammar for Reading German by April Wilson to prepare for my new program's German proficiency exam. I am wondering if others here have used it to prepare and, if so, how did you fare when taking the proficiency exam? Did you use other texts to supplement your German reading? If so, which ones? Thank you!

[Sparky]

Get Modern Theological German: A Reader and Dictionary. It's available on Amazon and probably Alibris. It doesn't have a grammar section, but the dictionary has terms useful for us that aren't in Webster's and such (e.g. "Wolkensaeule"--the cloud pillar in Exodus. You're not gonna find that in most places). The first part of the book contains excerpts from various theological works and the Bible, with questions after each section so you can check your reading comprehension.

It's great. And paperback.

[johndiligent]

That's a handy suggestion. Thanks!

[Mathētēs]

Get Modern Theological German: A Reader and Dictionary. It's available on Amazon and probably Alibris. It doesn't have a grammar section, but the dictionary has terms useful for us that aren't in Webster's and such (e.g. "Wolkensaeule"--the cloud pillar in Exodus. You're not gonna find that in most places). The first part of the book contains excerpts from various theological works and the Bible, with questions after each section so you can check your reading comprehension.

It's great. And paperback.

Sparky, thanks for your suggestion and description! What amount of German reading comprehension is necessary for the more elementary readings in Modern Theological German? Is it a useful companion from soon after beginning to build vocabulary, or is it best to wait until midway or further through an introductory grammar? Thanks!

[Sparky]

Sparky, thanks for your suggestion and description! What amount of German reading comprehension is necessary for the more elementary readings in Modern Theological German? Is it a useful companion from soon after beginning to build vocabulary, or is it best to wait until midway or further through an introductory grammar? Thanks!

Get it right away!

You'll need a solid foundation in grammar first--at least through the imperfect, which I think was maybe halfway through German II for me, maybe a little earlier, and a regular dictionary as well. Webster's New World paperback Ger/Eng-Eng/Ger is my favorite (it's orange and white)--it lays flat when you open it, which is golden. BUT the reason to get MTG right away is the Bible excerpts. Read the German version with the English open next to it, or just read the passages you already know. The excerpts chosen are familiar ones. It really helps get the hang of things, even though you will be translating something different for your proficiency test.

My only complaint with MTG is that somehow it feels the word "philosophisch" has to be glossed. Frequently. WHY?!

You just wait, it is WAY cool to be able to be all, "Und der Geist Gottes schwebte auf dem Wasser." (See? You don't have to know every word, or understand why it's 'auf dem' and not 'auf den', to understand completely what's going on. That's why it's so great to have the Bible as a guide. And I recommend MTG rather than the Internet b/c of the next-to-text gloss). I mean, any old dude can quote the *Vulgate*, right? Only cool people can quote the Bible in German.

[jacib]

Get it right away!

You'll need a solid foundation in grammar first--at least through the imperfect, which I think was maybe halfway through German II for me, maybe a little earlier, and a regular dictionary as well. Webster's New World paperback Ger/Eng-Eng/Ger is my favorite (it's orange and white)--it lays flat when you open it, which is golden. BUT the reason to get MTG right away is the Bible excerpts. Read the German version with the English open next to it, or just read the passages you already know. The excerpts chosen are familiar ones. It really helps get the hang of things, even though you will be translating something different for your proficiency test.

My only complaint with MTG is that somehow it feels the word "philosophisch" has to be glossed. Frequently. WHY?!

You just wait, it is WAY cool to be able to be all, "Und der Geist Gottes schwebte auf dem Wasser." (See? You don't have to know every word, or understand why it's 'auf dem' and not 'auf den', to understand completely what's going on. That's why it's so great to have the Bible as a guide. And I recommend MTG rather than the Internet b/c of the next-to-text gloss). I mean, any old dude can quote the *Vulgate*, right? Only cool people can quote the Bible in German.

I'd argue that it's more important to understand how to parse Wolkensäule into Wolken and Säule than it is to know what it means outright. Practicing reading will help you learn to parse those--knowing the set phrases is more important if you want to write... or already know what the topic that your reading exam will cover.

If you want German for writing, I found Dippmann's A Practical Review of German Grammar to be the handiest reference. I've tried to learn several languages from several different books, and for my style of learning, Dippmann was my favorite. It's probably not the best for pure reading though.

As a German dictionary (though obviously one you can't take to the actual exam), I'd recommend using dict.cc I used to use dict.leo.org, but I think a lot has changed on the internet in the last five years. dict.cc not only has Wolkensäule with the exact reference (13,21) but it also has other technical terms, like Entzauberung, which was originally used in fairy tales but someone (I want to say Weber) adopted it with a technical meaning to mean roughly "demystification" (though I believe it is often/usually translated as "disenchantment", which is the more literal meaning, but disenchantment usually means something different in English I feel). Most dictionaries I've encountered don't have Entzauberung and so I find it a good word to test the quality and comprehensiveness of a dictionary. (To test Turkish dictionaries, I use the word "silly", which most Turkish dictionaries just say means "aptal" which is literally "stupid", instead of trying to explain it.)

[Sparky]

Yeah, I realized 'Wolkensauele' was a lousy example about 3 seconds after I submitted the post.

Oddly, the other thing I recommend:

If you can get your hands on it, the German (in German; the one on iTunes is in English) cast recording of "Jesus Christ Superstar." It's very, um, 70s sounding, and some of the translations are interesting ('Hosanna'* cracks me up), but you can look up the lyrics online, and it's *fantastic* for religious vocabulary.

* The whole song, not the actual word 'hosanna', which is the same

Also, less useful vocab but nice just for getting the hang of things: YouTube has a lot of excerpts from Disney movie musicals in German, and when you're ready for it, French. Again, the lyrics are available lots of places online, and sometimes on YT as well (search "hakuna matata german lyrics" or some such).

Edited January 13, 2010 by Sparky

[johndiligent]

Yeah, I realized 'Wolkensauele' was a lousy example about 3 seconds after I submitted the post.

Oddly, the other thing I recommend:

If you can get your hands on it, the German (in German; the one on iTunes is in English) cast recording of "Jesus Christ Superstar." It's very, um, 70s sounding, and some of the translations are interesting ('Hosanna'* cracks me up), but you can look up the lyrics online, and it's *fantastic* for religious vocabulary.

* The whole song, not the actual word 'hosanna', which is the same

Also, less useful vocab but nice just for getting the hang of things: YouTube has a lot of excerpts from Disney movie musicals in German, and when you're ready for it, French. Again, the lyrics are available lots of places online, and sometimes on YT as well (search "hakuna matata german lyrics" or some such).

Along that line, (though I used it for Italian proficiency) another thing is to look up a topic you know quite well on the Insert Language Here version of Wikipedia.

[Nytusse]

The summer program at Harvard Divinity uses Jannach's German for Reading Knowledge. It is rather expensive (about 60 or 70 dollars), but I found it to be a great book for picking up German quickly. I also have the Wilson book and I like that one as well, but it is longer and a bit more involved. I found it to be useful after I already knew a bit of German.

[cleisthenes]

I would echo what has been said, particularly about parsing compound nouns, but also just parsing words in general, particularly understanding the thrust lent to a phrase by the use of a given prefix.

For example, you wouldn't have to know that "Entzauberung" means disenchantment literally to figure out that it has something to do with that idea. If you know that "Zauber" means magic (and you should, if you've ever read Mann's Zauberberg - if you haven't go read it), and thus "Zauberung" must be some sort of process involving something magical/enchanted, and you ALSO know that the prefix "ent" has to do with a sense of moving outward and away, or of going out and forth, then you know this has something to do with a process that projects or releases/reveals forth something magical/enchanted. Another name for a revealing of something magical or enchanted is a "disenchantment." Of course, this kind of knowledge comes with time. But think about it - we do this with English frequently, and it's perhaps one of the more important skills for reading difficult german texts, as German writers (in particular academic writers) love to invent new words using these linguistic building blocks.

Cheers.

[jacib]

I would echo what has been said, particularly about parsing compound nouns, but also just parsing words in general, particularly understanding the thrust lent to a phrase by the use of a given prefix.

For example, you wouldn't have to know that "Entzauberung" means disenchantment literally to figure out that it has something to do with that idea. If you know that "Zauber" means magic (and you should, if you've ever read Mann's Zauberberg - if you haven't go read it), and thus "Zauberung" must be some sort of process involving something magical/enchanted, and you ALSO know that the prefix "ent" has to do with a sense of moving outward and away, or of going out and forth, then you know this has something to do with a process that projects or releases/reveals forth something magical/enchanted. Another name for a revealing of something magical or enchanted is a "disenchantment." Of course, this kind of knowledge comes with time. But think about it - we do this with English frequently, and it's perhaps one of the more important skills for reading difficult german texts, as German writers (in particular academic writers) love to invent new words using these linguistic building blocks.

Cheers.

Yes, but luckily German has a lot of fun words to keep us on our toes... imagine trying to derive "conscience" from "Gewissen" (it helps if you think in Latin... con + sciencia or whatever knowledge is in Latin). Then you have fun words like gehoeren, which has nothing to do with hearing...

[redreverend]

Just wanted to share this because I wish someone had told me this a year ago. If you want to strengthen your application for next year and can't fit a course into your schedule that you have to physically attend, University of Arkansas has a distance learning course in PhD level German for Reading and French for Reading. It's inexpensive too, about 320 for either one. These are go-at-your-own-pace courses and you have a good amount of time to complete it. Fully transferable college credit courses. I'm taking a German distance learning course from LSU right now because i didn't know about these reading courses from UA. For what it's worth, the 2 PhD programs I got accepted to this year both commented on how they really liked the fact that I was already doing German and that it made my application look a LOT better.

Edited February 27, 2010 by redreverend

[JMR0408]

The summer program at Harvard Divinity uses Jannach's German for Reading Knowledge. It is rather expensive (about 60 or 70 dollars), but I found it to be a great book for picking up German quickly. I also have the Wilson book and I like that one as well, but it is longer and a bit more involved. I found it to be useful after I already knew a bit of German.

I echo this; get Jannach and Korb, German for Reading Knowledge. I think it's in the 5th edition by now. This book is fairly standard across the board for blitzkriegisch - yes, they can be violent... - German reading courses for graduate students. It is the one I used, and I loved it. While offered in the divinity school I attended, the course was taught by a prof from the university German dept, and he uses this book all the time. He had us get the Modern Theological German book, but he ended up pretty much tossing it. There are plenty of translation exercises in Jannach and Korb, and you can find the Luther Bibel online at U of Michigan (just Google it) for free. As far as just reading the German bible alongside the English bible as someone mentioned above, I would advise against it. Instead, learn the language by learning it analytically (those grammar and syntax rules DO matter, after all). That way, you actually learn German on it's own merits. When you get to German material not available in English, that kind of thing actually begins to matter quite a bit.

NB: I went and pulled Ziefle's Modern Theological German book from my shelf. I amend what I said before. You probably should get it, if just for the dictionary section. It is quite helpful. I would keep in mind, however, that with any kind of 'theological' approach to a language, you have to watch for translation biases, as I remember this coming up in my German class. It is a book worth having, though.

Edited February 27, 2010 by JMR0408

[Mathētēs]

For what it's worth, the 2 PhD programs I got accepted to this year both commented on how they really liked the fact that I was already doing German and that it made my application look a LOT better.

Would admission committees view the completion of a course in reading German more favorably than independent study followed by passing a comprehension exam?

[redreverend]

Would admission committees view the completion of a course in reading German more favorably than independent study followed by passing a comprehension exam?

Not sure which one they prefer. I think they just want to see something tangible saying that you've studied German, as opposed to simply writing on your CV or app that you are studying German on your own, or will learn it over the summer, etc. If you pass an equivalency exam saying that you can read German, I would think that would be just as good as taking courses.

Edited February 28, 2010 by redreverend

[Mathētēs]

Thank you everyone for your helpful comments! Do you have any suggestions with regard to computerized flashcards for German? I use GreekFlash Pro 2 for Greek and have started entering German vocabulary. Do you know of a good resource for German electronic flashcards? Thanks again!

Edited March 5, 2010 by Mathētēs

[thisistheyear]

Just wanted to share this because I wish someone had told me this a year ago. If you want to strengthen your application for next year and can't fit a course into your schedule that you have to physically attend, University of Arkansas has a distance learning course in PhD level German for Reading and French for Reading. It's inexpensive too, about 320 for either one. These are go-at-your-own-pace courses and you have a good amount of time to complete it. Fully transferable college credit courses. I'm taking a German distance learning course from LSU right now because i didn't know about these reading courses from UA. For what it's worth, the 2 PhD programs I got accepted to this year both commented on how they really liked the fact that I was already doing German and that it made my application look a LOT better.

could you give a link to the arkansas or lsu program for german reading?

[redreverend]

Here's the Univ of Arkansas reading course:

http://www.globalcampus.uark.edu/CreditStudies/disted/catalogquery.asp?level=C&department=FOREIGN+LANGUAGES&delmethod=0&submit=GO

Here's the LSU course, it's more based on conversational German:

http://www.is.lsu.edu/courselist.asp?cat=German&nid=102&pg=

[thisistheyear]

Here's the Univ of Arkansas reading course:

http://www.globalcampus.uark.edu/CreditStudies/disted/catalogquery.asp?level=C&department=FOREIGN+LANGUAGES&delmethod=0&submit=GO

Here's the LSU course, it's more based on conversational German:

http://www.is.lsu.edu/courselist.asp?cat=German&nid=102&pg=

cool thank you!

[Postbib Yeshuist]

I'm getting a tad confused here, since it sounds like the posts above are speaking mostly to reading the Bible in German. If my French exam was any indication, the likelihood of translating the Bible is extremely small while the probability of translating an excerpt from a German theological journal is extremely high. Are the books listed here good for that particular purpose as well?

[redreverend]

The books mentioned above are designed to allow you to read scholarly journals written in the German language, the type of which you would find on a proficiency exam.

[Postbib Yeshuist]

Does someone have a link to the German program at UofA?