Advice on Approaching Issue of Credit?

[angesradieux]

I've been working on a translation project for two or three years. It's been in conjunction with a professor, with the work divided such that I translated, he edited and fact checked the original author's footnotes.

I was under the impression that moving ahead with publication, it was going there be my name and my professor's name, and of course the original author's name, on the finished product. Maybe that was naive, I don't know. But now that the copyright is in order, we have a press ready to go ahead with the publication. And I receive an email addressed to me and two other people about expecting to be contacted by the publisher for permission to use our work.

I'm a little confused and frustrated. One person I recognize as the head of study abroad in France. I understand that maybe there was a difficult part to edit and he asked for her help, and now she has to be credited. I can live with that. But the other person was never mentioned to me. I have no clue who she is or what she actually did, and I'm kind of miffed. I did the entire translation. I actually proposed the project. The professor was going on in class about how he wished this book was available in English, and I approached him about translating after class.

I guess I'm concerned about someone I've never met, and whose involvement in the project I can't even confirm, getting credit for what is by and large my work. But I don't know how to broach the issue. And I'm feeling a little like my trust has been abused.

This is my first publication, so maybe I'm just naive and don't understand how this kind of thing works. Am I wrong to feel this way? Is there a good way to broach the issue? I guess I would feel a little better about it if I at least knew who this person was, but she was never mentioned to me before. Is this usually how this thing goes? Or am I right to feel blindsided?

Anyone with more experience have any advice to offer?

[bposadas]

It depends on the field. I had a similar issue with papers I submitted in engineering. While the work was by and large done by me, with minimal input from my advisor, I had to list him and 2-3 of his collaborators on the paper. It was super frustrating because I had literally not even talked to the other people about the project, and they barely spoke English, so of course they didn't write or edit any of the paper. But it's convention their name goes on the paper.

If this person you are concerned about going to be listed ahead of you on the publication? If so, then I would at least ask. You don't even have to ask directly. Talk to your professor and ask what is typically the order of the authors for your field. In my case, I was listed as first author anyways, and it is known in my field that the grad student tends to do > 90% of the work, so I still got appropriate credit.

Is everyone going to be listed as authors or just given credit in the acknowledgements? It makes sense for the person in the study abroad program, and that is expected if they helped you out. There's nothing wrong with just asking what is typical for your field. If you phrase the question like that, then you are not calling out this other person and get a sense of what this person's contribution was.

Hope this helps!

 

[TakeruK]

I think this also depends on field. But to clarify, you will still be listed as a coauthor right? That is, you were originally expecting the work to be authored by your prof & you, and instead, it's now authored by your prof, you, and 2 other people?

In my field, this is normal,  your prof seems to be the one in charge of the project, and they have the right to decide who else to add to the project. When I am the first author of my work, I freely seek out additional help if I want and invite new coauthors (with discussion with my advisor since I'm a student) but I don't talk to the other coauthors about it. When the work is finally ready, I send the draft around to all coauthors and formally invite them to join the paper at this stage. The coauthors who helped me don't get to choose who else gets authorship (unless I asked a prof for help and they said well, my student actually did all of the work, can you add them? to which of course I say yes!).

I guess one source of misunderstanding may be that you thought this was a joint project between you and your prof, but from my reading of your post, it sounds like this was actually a project lead by your prof, and your prof recruited you to help with an aspect of the work (translation). 

Here's how I would proceed: First, find out the authorship order---maybe you can get this from the existing documents. If not, talk to your professor about it. Also find out the standards in your field: in mine, the first author did the most work, the second author did less work etc. but in others, the ordering is reversed. Ensure that your place on the author list reflects how much work you put into this manuscript. If you do not feel it does, talk to your professor about it ASAP. Don't put it in an accusing tone though, because you do not really know that this other person did no work (just because you didn't interact with them doesn't mean that they didn't work on it). Listen to what the prof says and hopefully you will be in the correct authorship position.

Again, this may be different in your field, but in mine, the number of authors does not diminish the contribution of your work. A work authored by Prof & You is just as good as a work with authorship order Prof & You & Other Prof & Other Prof 2 & Other Prof 3. In my group, whenever it's not clear if we should add a coauthor, we always extend the invitation. Our way of thinking is that it costs us nothing to have a new coauthor but pissing off someone can be harmful in the future. And in your case, have coauthorship with established researchers can build new connections for you too. 

In summary: I think you need to clarify with your prof that you will be in an authorship position that is congruent with your contribution to the work. I would put aside any feeling of being blindsided or slighted for now, because you don't really know how much other people have worked on the project at this point. If you have the mindset that you were "leading" this work, I would also advise you to shift that, because the description here sounds a lot like that the prof is the lead and you were one of the 3 people he recruited to help put the work together. If it turns out that in fact you did most of the work and aren't getting the proper credit, then it's time to talk about next steps! 

[fuzzylogician]

As others have said, it's important to know what your field's standards are with regard to authorship to know if and how much of a problem this is. If you know someone you can ask about this (discreetly! without complaining about your situation at all!), that would be great. Otherwise, you can probably get some idea by just looking at recent papers and trying to figure out who is the student and who is the professor. If you are first (in a field where first is what matters), I don't think you need to worry too much about how many other people are on the paper. Your contribution is still flagged as the most important. If you've been demoted in favor of people you don't even know, then you need to talk to your professor, and the sooner the better. This is delicate but it's important not to accuse anyone of anything but to come to the conversation open-minded and to simply ask how the decision was made.

Also keep in mind that depending on your stage in your career, it's possible that the most important contribution this paper will make for your career is that it'll produce a strong and detailed letter from your professor (and potentially a writing sample, if you did the majority of the writing and can have your professor attest to that; with caveats that you should check with someone knowledgeable if submitting co-authored work would be viewed positively or negatively). If so, you should be very careful not to do anything to ruin the relationship by fighting about authorship from a place of missing (or mis-)information. Try to think of this paper as it fits into your career more broadly. Likewise, if you're early into your PhD, this again probably won't be the big thing you want to have shown by the end; it'll be a side project that will be nice, but not your main deliverable. So again, while I understand that it's upsetting when people are added to your paper when you don't think they deserve to be on it, don't give it more importance that it deserves. 

[angesradieux]

On 1/21/2017 at 1:08 PM, TakeruK said:

I think this also depends on field. But to clarify, you will still be listed as a coauthor right? That is, you were originally expecting the work to be authored by your prof & you, and instead, it's now authored by your prof, you, and 2 other people?

In my field, this is normal,  your prof seems to be the one in charge of the project, and they have the right to decide who else to add to the project. When I am the first author of my work, I freely seek out additional help if I want and invite new coauthors (with discussion with my advisor since I'm a student) but I don't talk to the other coauthors about it. When the work is finally ready, I send the draft around to all coauthors and formally invite them to join the paper at this stage. The coauthors who helped me don't get to choose who else gets authorship (unless I asked a prof for help and they said well, my student actually did all of the work, can you add them? to which of course I say yes!).

I guess one source of misunderstanding may be that you thought this was a joint project between you and your prof, but from my reading of your post, it sounds like this was actually a project lead by your prof, and your prof recruited you to help with an aspect of the work (translation). 

Here's how I would proceed: First, find out the authorship order---maybe you can get this from the existing documents. If not, talk to your professor about it. Also find out the standards in your field: in mine, the first author did the most work, the second author did less work etc. but in others, the ordering is reversed. Ensure that your place on the author list reflects how much work you put into this manuscript. If you do not feel it does, talk to your professor about it ASAP. Don't put it in an accusing tone though, because you do not really know that this other person did no work (just because you didn't interact with them doesn't mean that they didn't work on it). Listen to what the prof says and hopefully you will be in the correct authorship position.

Again, this may be different in your field, but in mine, the number of authors does not diminish the contribution of your work. A work authored by Prof & You is just as good as a work with authorship order Prof & You & Other Prof & Other Prof 2 & Other Prof 3. In my group, whenever it's not clear if we should add a coauthor, we always extend the invitation. Our way of thinking is that it costs us nothing to have a new coauthor but pissing off someone can be harmful in the future. And in your case, have coauthorship with established researchers can build new connections for you too. 

In summary: I think you need to clarify with your prof that you will be in an authorship position that is congruent with your contribution to the work. I would put aside any feeling of being blindsided or slighted for now, because you don't really know how much other people have worked on the project at this point. If you have the mindset that you were "leading" this work, I would also advise you to shift that, because the description here sounds a lot like that the prof is the lead and you were one of the 3 people he recruited to help put the work together. If it turns out that in fact you did most of the work and aren't getting the proper credit, then it's time to talk about next steps! 

Thanks for the advice.

My issue is that it wasn't his project that he just recruited me for. He'd been complaining that there was a book that he thought was the best scholarship on Dracula that he would have loved to use for the course, but it was written in French and hadn't been translated into English. I did a translation of a different source that he wanted to use for the class but wasn't yet available in English, and I was sitting in his office discussing that translation with him. And then as we were talking it kind of segued into "Hey. This book's in French. It'd be great to have it in English to use for the class. You know what? Let's do it!" So I started translating and sending chapters to him as I finished for him to look over and edit. But prior to that conversation, he never had any intention of undertaking the project. And the entire first draft of the manuscript was mine. In the past, he'd acknowledged that, as far as when I expressed concern over the timeline he laid out, he said that he would very much like for us to see this through together, but he recognized that the original translation was mine, and if I wanted to, I was certainly free to pursue it independently. I guess the fact that there was no project until I spoke to him and that the entire first draft was my work makes me feel like I should have been consulted.

I don't know. He did list me first underneath "translators", so maybe I should take that and be happy. But, I have an e-mail from him, sent almost exactly a year ago, explaining that royalties were going to be split three ways--between me, him, and the original author of the text we're publishing a translation of. So, at that point neither of these other people were part of the equation. A year ago, I was finishing going through his edits of my original translation, and we'd almost finished putting together a second draft. All of the translating was done. However, these people, who materialized are listed as translators also. I honestly don't understand how that's possible since they must have been brought in after I had done the original translation, my professor had gone through and sent my his edits, and I had subsequently looked through his edits, implemented changes, and sent the new version back to him.

Anyway, the way the title page is laid out is my professor's name is above everyone's. He's below the original author, listed as "edited and with an introduction by Prof X." And it's true he's the one who did the work on the introduction. And then below that, it's "Translators from French etc.: Me, him, Person 1, and Person 2." And again, maybe I should just take the fact that I'm first and be happy with it, but it just frustrates me because by the time these other people were brought in, I had translated the whole book myself, my professor sent me edits on the translation, and I had gone back through it, making changes and reformatting, so if anything they were involved in further refining the existing version, not actually translating themselves because that had already been done by me.

 

23 hours ago, fuzzylogician said:

 

Also keep in mind that depending on your stage in your career, it's possible that the most important contribution this paper will make for your career is that it'll produce a strong and detailed letter from your professor (and potentially a writing sample, if you did the majority of the writing and can have your professor attest to that; with caveats that you should check with someone knowledgeable if submitting co-authored work would be viewed positively or negatively). If so, you should be very careful not to do anything to ruin the relationship by fighting about authorship from a place of missing (or mis-)information. Try to think of this paper as it fits into your career more broadly. Likewise, if you're early into your PhD, this again probably won't be the big thing you want to have shown by the end; it'll be a side project that will be nice, but not your main deliverable. So again, while I understand that it's upsetting when people are added to your paper when you don't think they deserve to be on it, don't give it more importance that it deserves. 

Maybe you're right that I shouldn't make a big deal of it. It's a book translation, nothing original except a brief introduction by the professor, so it's not like it's groundbreaking work. It's also a book detailing the life of Vlad Dracula which, given that my primary field of interest is early modern France, isn't terribly relevant except as a side project. I'm just frustrated because it truly was a difficult project that I really invested a huge amount of time and energy into, and now I guess I'm a little bitter that people who apparently decided to jump in really late in the game are being credited as having done translation work themselves when, in truth, it was done and in the final stages of revision when they were brought in.. I also had myself convinced that he was nice, honest, and helpful, and I'm kind of feeling like I misjudged him, and I'm a little angry with myself over that. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But I guess I'm also struggling with feeling like I should have known better. In terms of recommendations and writing samples, though, I've already applied, so it shouldn't change anything in that respect unless I don't get in anywhere and have to reapply next year, which I'm hoping won't happen but is, of course, always a possibility.

[fuzzylogician]

45 minutes ago, angesradieux said:

Anyway, the way the title page is laid out is my professor's name is above everyone's. He's below the original author, listed as "edited and with an introduction by Prof X." And it's true he's the one who did the work on the introduction. And then below that, it's "Translators from French etc.: Me, him, Person 1, and Person 2." And again, maybe I should just take the fact that I'm first and be happy with it, but it just frustrates me because by the time these other people were brought in, I had translated the whole book myself, my professor sent me edits on the translation, and I had gone back through it, making changes and reformatting, so if anything they were involved in further refining the existing version, not actually translating themselves because that had already been done by me.

For what it's worth, one of my earliest projects in grad school went somewhat similarly. I was part of a lab doing a series of experiments for an NSF grant. My experiment worked, and was interesting. I came up with a theory to explain the facts that eventually turned into three papers and a number of presentations at leading conferences. Another group in the lab worked on another experiment that failed. They had nothing to do with my experiment or idea. I wrote the paper, I wrote the conference abstracts, I put together slides and did the presentations. But my PI wanted to have members of that group that worked on the other experiment as co-authors too. One of them did help with the analysis, but the other one did nothing at all, to the point where I had to do their work for them because they were unresponsive over a long period of time. At the time I was really upset that these people were given credit that I didn't think they deserved. It took me a long time to see that, in the end, it didn't matter. I was first author; I got good letters of support from my advisor that gave me credit for my part(s) in the project; I learned a lot and gained practical skills. They were 3rd and 4th on the paper and while it's on their CVs, it's hardly going to be what makes a difference in their careers. I also learned how to approach difficult conversations with my advisor, how to choose my collaborators carefully, and how to negotiate authorship clearly and early on. Overall, I choose to look at all the good that's come of that project and to forget how some decisions were made in ways I disagreed with. It's just not worth the emotional energy I was investing in it.

But yeah, I absolutely understand where you're coming from; but I am telling you as someone who's made it to the other side -- you have to choose your battles, and this one doesn't sound like it's worth the fight. And if you choose not to fight the fight, you absolutely have to let it go, or it will consume you. This is a growth and learning opportunity, so when you're up for it, take the time to dissect what happened and draw some conclusions about whether there was anything you could have done differently/better. 

[TakeruK]

@angesradieux: Thanks for the additional details. I see why it's frustrating that these two additional people were added. I am glad to hear that you are still the first translator though. I think it's still worth it to follow up with the professor and find out how the credit will be shared (and also whether the royalties will be split in additional ways). Maybe these two additional people did provide a small amount of work but will not receive anything other that credit on the title page?Again, I need to preface this with the caveat that I'm in a very different field but it still sounds very much to me that this project was "owned" by the professor the entire time. One major clue (to me) that it is the professor's ownership is that he was the one that sent the email to you and the original author declaring how the royalties will be split. In addition, the professor recognized that your translation was your work and that you were free to pursue it independently. However, you did not, which to me, signifies that you are comfortable with him taking charge of the project and using your work with appropriate credit and compensation. And finally, when you were making these translations, you were sending them to him, chapter by chapter for him to edit. This is another sign that shows, to an outside observer, that the prof is the one in charge. 

Sorry if the above sounds like I'm placing blame on you. I am not trying to say that, just explaining from a third person's perspective why the situation seems like it's one where you provided a service that was essential for the "boss" (i.e. the prof) to complete the work. But this doesn't necessarily mean you need to be consulted with every major decision.

In terms of moving forward, I agree with fuzzy. Decide what you need to get out of the situation and ensure you get what you need. Some things are not really worth fighting against. If financial compensation is important and these extra people are going to get more than their share of the royalties, then it's something you might want to bring up as a concern (depending on how much and if it's a fight worth fighting). But if your main concern is that you don't want to see these two other names on the title page, then I don't think that's an effective fight to fight at all. Having more people share credit doesn't diminish how much credit you'll get for the work. And if you fight it, you might turn out to be in the wrong (e.g. maybe the prof asked these two extra people to double check your work or something) and this could hurt your ability to get good recommendations from your prof and maybe even these new people. What is worth more to you?

Finally, I think this experience is also a valuable lesson on making issues of credit and authorship more clear at the beginning of a project. Whenever I lead a project and I ask for a piece of analysis or work from another researcher, I always make it clear that I would want to include them as a coauthor in the initial invitation. Similarly, whenever people ask me to use my code or analysis on this piece of data, I usually ask for authorship in exchange for my time and efforts. (Sometimes, if it's a new collaboration, I might provide some sample results first to see if it fits their needs and analyze the rest once they agree to include me as a coauthor).

[angesradieux]

2 hours ago, TakeruK said:

@angesradieux: Thanks for the additional details. I see why it's frustrating that these two additional people were added. I am glad to hear that you are still the first translator though. I think it's still worth it to follow up with the professor and find out how the credit will be shared (and also whether the royalties will be split in additional ways). Maybe these two additional people did provide a small amount of work but will not receive anything other that credit on the title page?Again, I need to preface this with the caveat that I'm in a very different field but it still sounds very much to me that this project was "owned" by the professor the entire time. One major clue (to me) that it is the professor's ownership is that he was the one that sent the email to you and the original author declaring how the royalties will be split. In addition, the professor recognized that your translation was your work and that you were free to pursue it independently. However, you did not, which to me, signifies that you are comfortable with him taking charge of the project and using your work with appropriate credit and compensation. And finally, when you were making these translations, you were sending them to him, chapter by chapter for him to edit. This is another sign that shows, to an outside observer, that the prof is the one in charge. 

Sorry if the above sounds like I'm placing blame on you. I am not trying to say that, just explaining from a third person's perspective why the situation seems like it's one where you provided a service that was essential for the "boss" (i.e. the prof) to complete the work. But this doesn't necessarily mean you need to be consulted with every major decision.

In terms of moving forward, I agree with fuzzy. Decide what you need to get out of the situation and ensure you get what you need. Some things are not really worth fighting against. If financial compensation is important and these extra people are going to get more than their share of the royalties, then it's something you might want to bring up as a concern (depending on how much and if it's a fight worth fighting). But if your main concern is that you don't want to see these two other names on the title page, then I don't think that's an effective fight to fight at all. Having more people share credit doesn't diminish how much credit you'll get for the work. And if you fight it, you might turn out to be in the wrong (e.g. maybe the prof asked these two extra people to double check your work or something) and this could hurt your ability to get good recommendations from your prof and maybe even these new people. What is worth more to you?

Finally, I think this experience is also a valuable lesson on making issues of credit and authorship more clear at the beginning of a project. Whenever I lead a project and I ask for a piece of analysis or work from another researcher, I always make it clear that I would want to include them as a coauthor in the initial invitation. Similarly, whenever people ask me to use my code or analysis on this piece of data, I usually ask for authorship in exchange for my time and efforts. (Sometimes, if it's a new collaboration, I might provide some sample results first to see if it fits their needs and analyze the rest once they agree to include me as a coauthor).

Once they're split five ways, I doubt the royalties are really enough to squabble over. I guess what frustrates me the most is seeing my work credited to someone else, which probably isn't actually worth fighting over. It just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. This professor very helpfully informed me that we'll all receive a free copy of the book once it's printed, and right now I'm just bitter and don't even want to look at it. I'll probably end up giving it away, tossing it, or just shoving it in some dark corner never to see the light of day again.

But I guess the lesson here is get everything in writing. He did tell me early on that I was to receive full credit for the translation. Unfortunately, that was just a verbal agreement, so I suppose he decided he could go back on that without consequences, because it comes down to my word against his. This whole thing has really turned me off to collaborative work, though. I'm grateful that history is a field where I can conduct a lot of--perhaps even all of--my research independently.

2 hours ago, fuzzylogician said:

For what it's worth, one of my earliest projects in grad school went somewhat similarly. I was part of a lab doing a series of experiments for an NSF grant. My experiment worked, and was interesting. I came up with a theory to explain the facts that eventually turned into three papers and a number of presentations at leading conferences. Another group in the lab worked on another experiment that failed. They had nothing to do with my experiment or idea. I wrote the paper, I wrote the conference abstracts, I put together slides and did the presentations. But my PI wanted to have members of that group that worked on the other experiment as co-authors too. One of them did help with the analysis, but the other one did nothing at all, to the point where I had to do their work for them because they were unresponsive over a long period of time. At the time I was really upset that these people were given credit that I didn't think they deserved. It took me a long time to see that, in the end, it didn't matter. I was first author; I got good letters of support from my advisor that gave me credit for my part(s) in the project; I learned a lot and gained practical skills. They were 3rd and 4th on the paper and while it's on their CVs, it's hardly going to be what makes a difference in their careers. I also learned how to approach difficult conversations with my advisor, how to choose my collaborators carefully, and how to negotiate authorship clearly and early on. Overall, I choose to look at all the good that's come of that project and to forget how some decisions were made in ways I disagreed with. It's just not worth the emotional energy I was investing in it.

But yeah, I absolutely understand where you're coming from; but I am telling you as someone who's made it to the other side -- you have to choose your battles, and this one doesn't sound like it's worth the fight. And if you choose not to fight the fight, you absolutely have to let it go, or it will consume you. This is a growth and learning opportunity, so when you're up for it, take the time to dissect what happened and draw some conclusions about whether there was anything you could have done differently/better. 

Thanks again for the advice. You're probably right that it's just not a battle worth fighting, especially because I'm at a very early stage in my career where I really do need people on my side. But letting it go is going to take time. It feel like I'm in a bit of a tailspin at this point. I'll probably pull myself out of it eventually, but it also feels like losing a mentor. He was the first professor I'd reached out to after transferring to the school. It was the first history class I could take there, he was the first person I'd undertaken a major project with, and he was the first person I'd ever spoken to about possible grad school aspirations with. I guess it just goes back to being angry at myself. I feel like I should've known better than to let it get to the point where I really trusted and admired him. But it kind of hurts to have lost all interest in future collaboration with the person who was really my first mentor in the field. I'll get over it eventually, but it's a bitter pill to swallow.

[TakeruK]

I'm sorry to hear that you feel deceived. I think it's crappy of him to go back on his verbal agreement like that. But keep in mind that he might not think he has done anything wrong. And as I said, from my position as a third party observer, I don't think he did anything unethical or wrong either. As the lead on the project, he should have the authority to add more collaborators onto the work. Perhaps he could have gone about it in a more transparent way, but personally I would not choose to cut off plans for future collaborations unless you knew he purposely acted unethically. However, maybe my inclination to compromise comes from the fact that my field is quite the opposite of yours---collaborations are absolutely necessary! So, perhaps the best thing for you is to not work with someone like this again. But since you have such good things to say about him other than this incident, I'd say it is worth clearing up any potential misunderstanding first. 

[dr. t]

On 1/22/2017 at 8:04 PM, fuzzylogician said:

I am telling you as someone who's made it to the other side -- you have to choose your battles, and this one doesn't sound like it's worth the fight.