Admission Chances With a Background in Philosophy and Literature?

[franz]

I applied to a total of five terminal MA/MTS/MAR programs this year. Today, I received the first news from them. It was a rejection from the school I considered the most safe in terms of my likelihood for admission. (Granted, it isn't a top tier program, but, I believe, it's still a respected and quality program, with good funding.) I felt fairly confident about my applications earlier, but now I'm starting to question my chances at the other programs, as I know they're more selective (Yale Divinity, Notre Dame, U Chicago Divinity, Duke).

I'm a bit nervous partially because my interests and reasons for applying likely differ from most applicants. My goal isn't to get a PhD in religion, though I'm by no means opposed to it. I'm interested in grad studies in religion as an opportunity to focus on research in the philosophy of religion, along with other applicable philosophical research interests. That being said, I'm still very interested in religious studies. Ultimately, if things work out, I'd like to enter an MA/PhD program in (continental) philosophy after finishing an MA/MTS/MAR in religion. I don't mean to suggest at all that I'm aiming to "use" studying religion solely to benefit my philosophical studies, as the former does genuinely interest me and provide unique chances for studying these interests.

On the other hand, a professor from my undergrad's religion department, who wrote one of my letters of recommendation and is an alumnus of one of the programs I applied to (if that matters), was quite encouraging when I proposed this idea to him. Other professors in the department expressed similar opinions.

I double majored in philosophy and German, along with minoring in English. My letters of recommendation come from all of those departments, though I tended to favor those from religion and philosophy if I need to choose two or three. My undergrad is a small, well-ranked liberal arts college and has a strong religion department, with a fairly good record of students (including those who didn't major in religion) going to top grad programs in the field. (If it's relevant, our religion faculty almost entirely comes from these top programs as well.) I only took one religion class.

Sorry in advance if the next part is a bit vague, but I'm not sure into how much detail I should go, for the sake of identifying information. My GPA was 3.60, and my GRE verbal and analytic scores are definitely both in the top tenth percentile, though my quantitative score is very low. My writing sample was a philosophy paper on applying hermeneutical frameworks in the philosphy of literature in order to clarify and aid philosophical inquiries, with my example concerning how one might do this to a question on Kierkegaard. For foreign languages, I know German, French, Norwegian, Danish, and Serbo-Croatian. I've worked for the last couple of years on translating two philosophers who come from languages with very small numbers of non-native speakers, haven't appeared in translation yet, and whose work could prove interesting for certain areas of continental philosophy.

In religion, my research interests mostly center on the two areas of the nature and implications of faith and the role of literature in the philosophy of religion. These lean heavily toward the German and phenomenological traditions, in addition to interests in Eastern thought (mostly Buddhism, especially Zen, with some philosophical Daoism) as well. Thinkers of interest include Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Gadamer, Ricœur, Kafka, and Nietzsche.

Am I getting too anxious as a result of one program's decision, or should I be concerned about getting in at any of the other schools? By the way, I re-applied to PhD programs in philosophy this year as well, and, while I hope to get into some of them, it would be nice to have both routes open. In other words, I hopefully won't have to place all hopes in grad school this fall on these programs, in case my chances are slim.

[Averroes MD]

"Am I getting too anxious as a result of one program's decision?"

Yes. 

At the master's level , sometimes the more prestigious Ivy League schools would be easier to get into, simply because they have more spots than a state school, which might have 1-2 slots. At least this is my impression.

[menge]

If your goal is phil. rel. in a religious studies department, an MA/MTS/MAR is great. If you want to be in a philosophy PhD program, you would be better served by a philosophy MA. It's not to say that the jump is impossible. Just that one track tends to yield better results than the other. That said, it sounds like you'll have as competitive an application as anyone in your position so who knows. The whole process is one big crapshoot anyway. 

[xypathos]

I can only speak from the shared experience of individuals in the philosophy subsection so take the following with that caveat. Several have remarked (from their experience and shared advice from professors), that once you attend a seminary or divinity school, making the jump to a philosophy department for a PhD becomes astronomically harder. There was a perception, on their end, that they had become tainted by being in an environment with feeds/supports confessional students and were no longer capable of being critical and unbiased in their work.

Caputo has spoken of this some, anecdotally, about his reception among fellow philosophers and theologians though with the acknowledgements he spent most of his career at a Catholic university in a program very heavy in Philosophy of Religion.

[rheya19]

I don't think you should worry. UC's Divinity School LOOOOOVES German philosophers. They practically worship them!  I got into the MA program there, focus on early Christian history with a  bachelor's in Asian Studies from a small liberal arts school, GPA 3.26, so you should be fine getting in somewhere.

[marXian]

If your interest is continental philosophy of religion, I strongly recommend considering a religious studies department over a philosophy department. Philosophy as a discipline, as you likely know, is far more "guild-like" in structure (as you can see from blogs like The Philosophical Gourmet) and programs that specialize in continental philosophy in the US--let alone philosophy of religion--are few and far between. (Though if you're already applying to PhD programs in philosophy, perhaps you've found some that fit your interests.) Most continental philosophy work is done in other humanities departments, particularly those heavily invested in cultural studies. Of course, there are some frustrating ways in which "theory" in this sense is engaged sometimes, e.g. as a lens through which the scholar looks at his/her subject matter without critically engaging the lens at all. But there are many of us who do engage theory critically, and there is definitely an academic home for folks who do philosophy of religion/critical theory/continental philosophy in religious studies. UCSB is a great place, for example (Tom Carlson, and now Elliot Wolfson.) As rheya19 mentioned, UofC's Divinity School is also a great place if you're interested in the German tradition (Ryan Coyne). Northwestern's philosophy department has had amazing resources for me in the German tradition as well. Syracuse (where Caputo used to teach) has also historically been strong in continental philosophy of religion. 

I don't think an MAR would be a setback at all for a philosophy PhD program, especially since you have a BA in philosophy. Now, an MTS or MDiv would most definitely be viewed with suspicion, even from Yale or HDS. If you went that route, you'd probably need an MA in philosophy to show you're "on the right track." I've known multiple people who have had to do this. 

But here's hoping you get into a philosophy program this year!

[NewPhD]

In my experience, something to think about is that programs care as much about where you are going (in terms of your interests and research), as they care about where you've been academically.  That is, they want you to have the background, languages etc for your stated goal to seem logical and achievable.  But, they seem to also especially care about whether your academic goals fit with their program, professors, field, etc. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by NewPhD

[franz]

On 2/23/2017 at 1:22 PM, marXian said:

If your interest is continental philosophy of religion, I strongly recommend considering a religious studies department over a philosophy department. Philosophy as a discipline, as you likely know, is far more "guild-like" in structure (as you can see from blogs like The Philosophical Gourmet) and programs that specialize in continental philosophy in the US--let alone philosophy of religion--are few and far between. (Though if you're already applying to PhD programs in philosophy, perhaps you've found some that fit your interests.) Most continental philosophy work is done in other humanities departments, particularly those heavily invested in cultural studies. Of course, there are some frustrating ways in which "theory" in this sense is engaged sometimes, e.g. as a lens through which the scholar looks at his/her subject matter without critically engaging the lens at all. But there are many of us who do engage theory critically, and there is definitely an academic home for folks who do philosophy of religion/critical theory/continental philosophy in religious studies. UCSB is a great place, for example (Tom Carlson, and now Elliot Wolfson.) As rheya19 mentioned, UofC's Divinity School is also a great place if you're interested in the German tradition (Ryan Coyne). Northwestern's philosophy department has had amazing resources for me in the German tradition as well. Syracuse (where Caputo used to teach) has also historically been strong in continental philosophy of religion. 

I don't think an MAR would be a setback at all for a philosophy PhD program, especially since you have a BA in philosophy. Now, an MTS or MDiv would most definitely be viewed with suspicion, even from Yale or HDS. If you went that route, you'd probably need an MA in philosophy to show you're "on the right track." I've known multiple people who have had to do this. 

But here's hoping you get into a philosophy program this year!

Thanks for the detailed help and recommendations on programs! Actually, I've been considering this for quite a while, and, perhaps foolishly, I'm only now really looking into it as a better option than philosophy. Especially for the prospect of going the religion route, this realm of options has lingered in the back of my mind for a while, and, since making this thread, I am now looking at it much more seriously. Recently, I heard from my two top choices in philosophy, and I didn't get in. That leaves two programs that aren't as great fits, and I'm doubtful of my chances for admission at them. Just considering the "guild" nature of philosophy more has made me think much more seriously about religious studies too. (Not to imply that religion is an ideal place either, but I perceive that the issues with the "guild-like" nature of academic philosophy now aren't as present so much in religion, though I could be wrong.)

Overall, my interests in philosophy are philosophical pessimism, phenomenology, philosophy of religion, philosophy of literature, and intersections of Eastern thought and continental philosophy. I've found some programs that would be good places for these interests, but, owing to the scope of continental in the Anglosphere and the popularity levels of some of these areas/thinkers of interest, it's a bit tougher to find, say, faculty who are interested in Heidegger without the political focuses or Schopenhauer.

It's odd how an MTS or MDiv would receive that sort of reception in philosophy, though I'm not surprised either. I have heard that, compared to other humanities departments, philosophy tends more often to take issue with research that involves other fields. Purely from my own perceptions as an "outsider" somewhat to religious studies, it seems that religion has a greater openness to work of a more interdisciplinary nature.

[franz]

On 2/22/2017 at 3:13 AM, Averroes MD said:

"Am I getting too anxious as a result of one program's decision?"

Yes. 

At the master's level , sometimes the more prestigious Ivy League schools would be easier to get into, simply because they have more spots than a state school, which might have 1-2 slots. At least this is my impression.

Ah, I didn't consider that, but, if your impression is correct, it makes sense. If it is of significane, a classmate of mine got into YDS for an MDiv with a major in political theory and without a background in religion or philosophy, so that makes me hopeful. On the other hand, the MDiv might differ in admissions from the MAR.

[Averroes MD]

16 minutes ago, franz said:

Ah, I didn't consider that, but, if your impression is correct, it makes sense. If it is of significane, a classmate of mine got into YDS for an MDiv with a major in political theory and without a background in religion or philosophy, so that makes me hopeful. On the other hand, the MDiv might differ in admissions from the MAR.

My impression is that MAR is slightly more competitive to get into than MDiv, but the same principle should apply. I think you will be fine. As for getting a PhD in philosophy afterward, that is a different ballgame altogether, and a master's in philosophy may be a better route for you. However, this is beyond my scope of knowledge as I am in religious studies / theology. Good luck!

[franz]

58 minutes ago, Averroes MD said:

My impression is that MAR is slightly more competitive to get into than MDiv, but the same principle should apply. I think you will be fine. As for getting a PhD in philosophy afterward, that is a different ballgame altogether, and a master's in philosophy may be a better route for you. However, this is beyond my scope of knowledge as I am in religious studies / theology. Good luck!

No worries about the scope, and thanks for your opinions! These responses have definitely helped in lifting my spirits a bit about the chances of the religion route. I'm beginning to think more seriously about whether a PhD in religious studies might ultimately prove a better course, but that's something that will require more time and pondering as well.