Where do I start? (applying in the fall of 2017)

[existentialismandcoffee]

Hello, everyone! I'm a bit new to the whole application process for grad school in philosophy and could use some help. I'm finishing up my junior year and I will be graduating in the spring of 2018 so I figured I should get a head start on the application process. I was wondering for people who are in my current position or have experience with the application process if you guys have any recommendations on what I should be focusing on in this timeframe. In other words, are there certain things I should be doing right now to better my application? Any info on the process would help as well. 

A little more info about me: I attend a small liberal arts school in Southern California and I am double majoring in Philosophy and Psychology. I have a 3.7 accumulative GPA (3.9 philosophy; 3.7 in psychology) and I know all my professors in the philosophy department fairly well so I can count on them for letters of rec's. My main interests in philosophy are metaphysical topics such as philosophy of the mind, personal identity, and free will. I started my philosophy degree later than usual because I took an intro class my sophomore year and fell in love with the field. 

 

Thank's again for any help!

[Duns Eith]

Sounds like you're in a great position to start.

How you apply depends in part on what you want to study, and what your long-term goals will be. What you want to do determines your target schools. I would start gathering data and putting it all in a spreadsheet. Get the Philosophical Gourmet Report rankings overall and in specialty areas, take note of the faculty you're most interested in, their funding packages, and all the details of the application process (deadline, # of LORs, writing sample length, personal statement length, average GREs of admitted applicants, etc). When you see all that is required in the process, you'll have a clearer idea how to steer your next 9 months.

(You're going to be applying to a lot of schools. It is common to apply to over a dozen. Some apply to 20 and get shut out. It is very competitive. You may want to consider applying to a handful of MA programs as well. That said, save up some money, because it's gonna cost about $100 per school)

You'll want to make sure your writing sample is as good as you can: clear, well structured, innovative, sexy, and ideally in one of your research interests. If you are planning on doing a senior thesis/senior seminar, it's a good idea to get a good head start on what topics you'd want to write on. You want it looking really good before December 15th. Immaculate before December 30th. Lots of deadlines are in December.

Also, make sure you take the GRE over the summer, and get a combined score of 315+ (verbal and quantitative), emphasizing a high verbal score (like 162+). Plan on memorizing 500+ words. Get practice exams from Princeton Review or Kaplan or Magoosh. Do as many practice exams as you possibly can. You may need to take the real exam twice. They are $200 a pop, roughly. (again, save up your money)

In summary:

• Look at PGR for a rough guide of schools that have the strengths in your research areas
• Gather data on those schools you are likely to apply to (keep track of the ones you have eliminated as well)
• Save up your money
• Writing sample is the most important factor of your application
• GREs are required at most schools, and verbal is super competitive. Shoot for 165 verbal.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Duns Eith

[hector549]

Congrats for making plans early! Do you have three professors in mind for letter writers? I would continue to talk to them outside of class, go to office hours, and build relationships with them, so they'll be able to write you strong letters.

It's a good time to think about what you'd like to use as a writing sample. If you have a paper you think is particularly strong, you could work on expanding it, revising it, and turning it into a strong sample over the summer. I'd recommend that you seek your professors' input as you begin, and as you're working on the sample. Not only will their suggestions on revision be invaluable, but it'll also be a project that'll further familiarize them with you and your work, which will help them write better letters!

I'd also recommend starting to study for the GRE over the summer. Take an ETS practice test so you can assess where you are, and how much work you'll need to do to hit your target score. I'd also recommend taking a practice test periodically as you're studying to assess your progress. Some people will claim that GRE scores are very important, and some less so. But I'd aim to strengthen your score as much as you can! It's part of your application that you do have some control over. I used ETS practice material, supplemented with Manhattan Prep. I found ETS the best (they write the actual test) and Manhattan Prep was a close second.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Edited March 27, 2017 by hector549

[Nichi]

At this stage, getting your writing sample as good as you can is the most important thing to do. If you're worried about the GRE, you may benefit from studying for it. If you do, time yourself because the hardest part of the exam is the absurd time limits.

Given you'll probably have one more semester on your records you submit, loading your fall semester with philosophy classes is probably a good idea. I also got a late start, not deciding to do a philosophy major until my junior year. I imagine having an A in metaphysics this fall was to my benefit. Also, get A's in your classes, preferrably without minuses. If your school does A+'s, try to get a few of those.

[anonphdstudent]

a few pieces of advice from my experience:

1. don't worry about the GREs. i have spoken to faculty who don't even know how many total points are on the GRE (seriously), let alone what constitutes a good score. my impression is that it can be disqualifying if egregiously low, but otherwise no one cares (actually, that's more than my impression. i have explicitly been told this). i do, however, recommend taking at least one practice GRE before you actually sit for the test. i didn't do this, and i found the experience of taking the test on a computer stressful (there's a countdown clock ON THE SCREEN as you're taking it, which created a lot of weird psychological pressure for me. i also tend to skip around a lot when i take tests, which isn't possible to do on the GRE given its format. this ended up requiring a big, impromptu adjustment in my test-taking strategy, mid-test, which didn't help with the whole psychological pressure thing). but definitely don't make the mistake of thinking the GRE is anywhere near as significant for your PhD applications as the SATs were for undergrad. it's not.

2. application fees are expensive, so ask for fee waivers whenever and whereever you can. i only applied to 6 schools, and got fee waivers from 2 of them, just by politely saying i didn't make a lot of money at my job. some schools will ask for your tax returns- you can decide if actually sending those is worth it to you. but this is a seriously easy way to save hundreds of dollars during the application process, which will be especially useful if you apply to 10+ schools. 

2b. on that note, i might be a bit of an outlier on this forum, but i kept my list of schools i applied to really tight. why? because i didn't want to spend money and time applying to a school i knew i wouldn't want to go to. think about what your priorities are. for me, i didn't apply anywhere i wouldn't want to live. for example, i know arizona is a great school (and i would have been extremely lucky to be admitted there), but i have no interest in living in the desert so i saved myself the $100. if you know in advance that you can't imagine moving somewhere, don't bother paying them to read your application.

3. your writing sample is definitely the most important part of your application. have a good one. ideally, have one that one of your letter writers gives you feedback on.

4. people give various kinds of advice about whether to "name names" in their statement of purpose (i.e., name who you want to work with in the department). i ultimately didn't, and i think it was the right call. no matter what you know about a professor's work, you probably don't know 1) if they're taking on more students (they might have an upcoming sabbatical, or a full roster of advisees); 2) if their interests haven't moved in a different direction (specifically one they haven't yet published much on); 3) who's on the adcomm. imagine a case where professors x and y both work on z, and you write in your letter that you'd love to come to school a to work with x on z. lo and behold, y is on the adcomm. they may well feel slighted that you don't want to work with THEM, and that could color how they read your application. i think it's much safer to just say you're interested in z. besides which, who KNOWS who you'll end up working with? this is often far from obvious several years into grad school, let alone before you've even started.

5. it's a long and stressful process, this admissions thing. try not to put too much pressure on yourself (hard i know), and try not to let your self worth get tied up in what schools accept or reject you (this was even harder for me). best of luck!

[Ibycus]

1 hour ago, anonphdstudent said:

a few pieces of advice from my experience:

1. don't worry about the GREs. i have spoken to faculty who don't even know how many total points are on the GRE (seriously), let alone what constitutes a good score. my impression is that it can be disqualifying if egregiously low, but otherwise no one cares (actually, that's more than my impression. i have explicitly been told this). i do, however, recommend taking at least one practice GRE before you actually sit for the test. i didn't do this, and i found the experience of taking the test on a computer stressful (there's a countdown clock ON THE SCREEN as you're taking it, which created a lot of weird psychological pressure for me. i also tend to skip around a lot when i take tests, which isn't possible to do on the GRE given its format. this ended up requiring a big, impromptu adjustment in my test-taking strategy, mid-test, which didn't help with the whole psychological pressure thing). but definitely don't make the mistake of thinking the GRE is anywhere near as significant for your PhD applications as the SATs were for undergrad. it's not.

2. application fees are expensive, so ask for fee waivers whenever and whereever you can. i only applied to 6 schools, and got fee waivers from 2 of them, just by politely saying i didn't make a lot of money at my job. some schools will ask for your tax returns- you can decide if actually sending those is worth it to you. but this is a seriously easy way to save hundreds of dollars during the application process, which will be especially useful if you apply to 10+ schools. 

2b. on that note, i might be a bit of an outlier on this forum, but i kept my list of schools i applied to really tight. why? because i didn't want to spend money and time applying to a school i knew i wouldn't want to go to. think about what your priorities are. for me, i didn't apply anywhere i wouldn't want to live. for example, i know arizona is a great school (and i would have been extremely lucky to be admitted there), but i have no interest in living in the desert so i saved myself the $100. if you know in advance that you can't imagine moving somewhere, don't bother paying them to read your application.

3. your writing sample is definitely the most important part of your application. have a good one. ideally, have one that one of your letter writers gives you feedback on.

4. people give various kinds of advice about whether to "name names" in their statement of purpose (i.e., name who you want to work with in the department). i ultimately didn't, and i think it was the right call. no matter what you know about a professor's work, you probably don't know 1) if they're taking on more students (they might have an upcoming sabbatical, or a full roster of advisees); 2) if their interests haven't moved in a different direction (specifically one they haven't yet published much on); 3) who's on the adcomm. imagine a case where professors x and y both work on z, and you write in your letter that you'd love to come to school a to work with x on z. lo and behold, y is on the adcomm. they may well feel slighted that you don't want to work with THEM, and that could color how they read your application. i think it's much safer to just say you're interested in z. besides which, who KNOWS who you'll end up working with? this is often far from obvious several years into grad school, let alone before you've even started.

5. it's a long and stressful process, this admissions thing. try not to put too much pressure on yourself (hard i know), and try not to let your self worth get tied up in what schools accept or reject you (this was even harder for me). best of luck!

Most of this advice is good, but I think you are a bit too skeptical of the GRE's importance. It really depends on the committee. Some committees care about it somewhat, others not at all. You will notice though that at some top schools, the average GRE is around 330, with like a 168V average (UCSD is around there for example). For some schools, a large GRE score difference may be a tiebreaker between applicants who are otherwise very close. A good score can also get you nominated for university-wide fellowships, so there is that. It's not as important as the SAT; at many places it will be the least important part of your app (some don't actually care much about statement of purpose besides what your AOI is). But philosophy grad school competition is merciless, and everything helps. 

I think a solid rule of thumb is Writing Sample>Letters=Grades>Statement of Purpose>GRE in general in terms of importance (unless your GRE is godawful). Sample is ~really, really~ important. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ibycus

[anonphdstudent]

9 minutes ago, Ibycus said:

Most of this advice is good, but I think you are a bit too skeptical of the GRE's importance. It really depends on the committee. Some committees care about it somewhat, others not at all. You will notice though that at some top schools, the average GRE is around 330, with like a 168V average (UCSD is around there for example). For some schools, a large GRE score difference may be a tiebreaker between applicants who are otherwise very close. A good score can also get you nominated for university-wide fellowships, so there is that. It's not as important as the SAT; at many places it will be the least important part of your app (some don't actually care much about statement of purpose besides what your AOI is). But philosophy grad school competition is merciless, and everything helps. 

I think a solid rule of thumb is Writing Sample>Letters=Grades>Statement of Purpose>GRE in general in terms of importance (unless your GRE is godawful). Sample is ~really, really~ important. 

i think having a high average GRE score at a top school doesn't contradict my point- people with strong enough writing samples, letters, grades, etc to get admitted to a top school are also likely going to score pretty decently on the GREs. competitive students tend to be quite successful at standardized testing (though of course there are exceptions). 

but you're certainly right that some schools value it more than others (though i would be shocked to learn that it has ever been the deciding factor between two otherwise similar candidates, unless the lower score was both 1) substantially lower; and 2) actually bad, but you could be right), and it is certainly considered at a university-wide level in some cases (for instance, for fellowships, though i don't know which schools actually do this). i can just say, based on my experience as an applicant soliciting advice from faculty, as well as speaking to people who have been on adcomms, that their position was- unless the score is really bad, it doesn't really matter. and indeed when i told a particular professor my actual score to ask if he thought i should retake it, his response was "is that good? how many points are there?"

now that doesn't mean one should blow it off - indeed, i did, and i regretted it on test day (though my score was more than good enough for my purposes) - but one absolutely should not devote huge amounts of time and energy prepping for it. the benefit to your application is not high enough relative to the cost. by contrast, though, such effort would DEFINITELY be worth it when applying to, say, law school, given that law school admissions can be pretty reliably predicted by LSAT scores. you should prep just as much for the GRE as is required to get an acceptable score and then focus on parts of your application that will have a higher return on your time investment- namely, your writing sample.

[Ibycus]

45 minutes ago, anonphdstudent said:

i think having a high average GRE score at a top school doesn't contradict my point- people with strong enough writing samples, letters, grades, etc to get admitted to a top school are also likely going to score pretty decently on the GREs. competitive students tend to be quite successful at standardized testing (though of course there are exceptions). 

but you're certainly right that some schools value it more than others (though i would be shocked to learn that it has ever been the deciding factor between two otherwise similar candidates, unless the lower score was both 1) substantially lower; and 2) actually bad, but you could be right), and it is certainly considered at a university-wide level in some cases (for instance, for fellowships, though i don't know which schools actually do this). i can just say, based on my experience as an applicant soliciting advice from faculty, as well as speaking to people who have been on adcomms, that their position was- unless the score is really bad, it doesn't really matter. and indeed when i told a particular professor my actual score to ask if he thought i should retake it, his response was "is that good? how many points are there?"

now that doesn't mean one should blow it off - indeed, i did, and i regretted it on test day (though my score was more than good enough for my purposes) - but one absolutely should not devote huge amounts of time and energy prepping for it. the benefit to your application is not high enough relative to the cost. by contrast, though, such effort would DEFINITELY be worth it when applying to, say, law school, given that law school admissions can be pretty reliably predicted by LSAT scores. you should prep just as much for the GRE as is required to get an acceptable score and then focus on parts of your application that will have a higher return on your time investment- namely, your writing sample.

I'm not arguing the high average thing is damning evidence, but it's kinda notable I think that UCSD for example averages 168V. (I have also heard they specifically care more than most about GRE.) Colorado, where I got in, put me up for a college-wide fellowship partly due to GRE; I think it is reasonably common. I think I have heard a prof online talk about GRE breaking ties but I'm not gonna bother trying to cite that one. 

I think Schwitzgebel's perspective on GRE reflects the general feeling:

"GRE scores are less important to your application than grades, letters, writing sample, and statement of purpose. A few schools don't even require them. In my experience, some members of admissions committees take them seriously and others discount them entirely...At UCR I'd say below 1250 is a strike against an applicant, above 1400 is a bonus." 1250 is around 310 now, while 1400 is about a 321. http://gre.graduateshotline.com/gre_score_scale.html