State school vs Ivy League?

[lizgb]

So I've had two interviews for biology PhD programs- one at Yale and one at Arizona State. I liked Yale, but I LOVED Arizona. Obviously Yale has a fantastic reputation and an excellent program, but I really clicked with the program at ASU. How much does a program's ranking and reputation matter? I've been told by some people that you should get your PhD at a school at least one level (reputation/ranking-wise) above the kind of school you'd eventually want to teach at. All other things being equal, how much would going to a more mid level school affect my ability to get post doc and faculty positions as opposed to an Ivy League school?

Thanks!

[jeanne]

I think it depends on what you want to do in the long run. I'm accepted to U of I (ranked #5) and hopeful for Wisconsin (ranked #1) but also looking into Harvard (ranked #15). Obviously Harvard has the name, but it doesn't beat the rankings of the state schools. Plus, I want to end up in Illinois after grad school so going to either Wisconsin or Illinois makes more sense.

Do you think the profs at ASU will have connections with schools that you'd like to attend after you finish? Then that should be enough to get you set up after grad school.

[origin415]

Ultimately, the universities you apply to for post docs will be looking at the quality of your thesis. If you are stuck doing work you aren't interested in at Yale, than your thesis isn't going to be as good and you'll be unhappy anyway. If you go to ASU and do a kickass thesis on a topic you love, that will go a long way. My professors have all told me that a research match is much more important than a good reputation.

But of course, its all about balance, if the reputation gap greatly exceeds the disparity in your interest, then go for reputation.

[zonko]

I'm in a different field, but I've heard that mid-level universities often primarily look at applications from people from top schools. An outstanding thesis at a lower-ranked school can sometimes offset this, but realize that the bar is raised if you go to a lower-ranked school. But then again, if you love the program you may be able to produce a better thesis, so the answer is not totally clear.

A good way to answer this question is to look at the jobs that graduating students at the two schools get. You can probably expect similar jobs when you graduate. If the sorts of places that hire graduating students are similar at both schools then great. If they are different, then it is probably wise to consider whichever one best aligns with your future career plans.

Edited February 17, 2010 by zonko

[gradadvice]

So I've had two interviews for biology PhD programs- one at Yale and one at Arizona State. I liked Yale, but I LOVED Arizona. Obviously Yale has a fantastic reputation and an excellent program, but I really clicked with the program at ASU. How much does a program's ranking and reputation matter? I've been told by some people that you should get your PhD at a school at least one level (reputation/ranking-wise) above the kind of school you'd eventually want to teach at. All other things being equal, how much would going to a more mid level school affect my ability to get post doc and faculty positions as opposed to an Ivy League school?

Thanks!

School rankings are not very important in the long run. What is important is that you click with a program, have a good advisor relationship, and do good work. If you LOVED Arizona, that should be the program for you. I currently attend the #1 ranked school in my field and incoming assistant professors come from all over. When I go to conferences and job-talks, people don't care where I study, they only care who my advisor is and what work I have completed.

[coyabean]

What I've heard from some very successful people:

Being liked and wanted is hard to trump. When people like you and are interested, genuinely, in your research they go above and beyond to help you be successful, i.e. giving you a first authorship, introducing you to important people, recommending you for opportunities. Harvard is a wonderful school with a great reputation (understatement much?) but will you have someone there that is personally invested in your success? Are they willing to let you shine? Or, will you be fighting for the attention of famous people that are more invested in their own career? Having Harvard on your resume is great but having a personal enthusiastic recommendation from a mentor intimately aware of your work and abilities is the gold standard. If you can get that at both schools then, by all means, choose Harvard. The world is a prestige whore and maybe it'll occasionally get you a phone number at the club. But, if you feel like you'd have a team at the State school don't discount that.

And another friend said it more directly:

Graduate school sucks ass but it sucks much less when you like the people you are working with.