ohgosh

Hey guys, If anyone was put on the waitlist for Ryerson, I just declined there, so I hope that they will give up my spot. Hopefully, they'll give away my funding as well.

Hey RunnerGrad, The TA that you mentioned sounds wonderful, and it also sounds like they were able to bring some really great discussions forward. I appreciate your point that U of T is not void of social justice, and I totally agree with that.To complement what you stated, my partner graduated last year with a very clinical education at U of T, and she certainly hasn't changed in her social justice perspectives. Furthermore, I can count at least three professors off the top of my head who teach at my criticial school while currently or previously having taught at U of T. Also, as a York grad(uand), I know that a lot of amazing people with critical and passionate perspectives from my own cohort will be going to U of T to finish their education. I firmly believe that social work is what you make of it, and it is the "making of it" that I'm interested in. So while I'm sure that all of these programs are a lot more similar to each other than different, I'd like to explore the relative differences between them, in response to that "It" school question. So, to emphasize the difference that I'm talking about, I'll use an example from your example with the language that you use to describe your TA.You mentioned that he is "very anti-oppressive", and that sounds like a good thing to me, but in my original post, I mentioned that I didn't think there would a lot of challenges to that term at U of T (outside of the social justice stream), whereas critical programs would more likely emphasize the deconstruction of this common social work staple. You also menioned that he talks about having "the voices" of "marginalized people" heard through research and academia, and I argue that this idea, while well-meaing, can also inherently be rooted in colonialism via "empowerment". In my opinion, this level of analysis and the worship of everything Foucault is not going to be readily available in, say, the Mental Health and Health stream, where the DSM is going to be used as a text for diagnoses with service users. And that makes sense, because people would be gaining practical, clinical skills (like CBT) over a relatively brief period of time, and they aren't going to have as many resources available to deconstruct a lot of problematic terminology, whereas in a critical school, it's all we do(!), but then we would miss out on the clinical education. And I do think that there is a relative ideological difference between schools. I just look at the fact, for example, that U of T separates its social justice stream from other streams, compared to other schools that present social justice as an integral part of all classes. Why should social justice be a social work specialization instead of the social work standard? What kind of message does that send out to people, especially when one stream is much less populated than another? I'll stop here, but I just wanted to reiterate that U of T was my "It" school for two years, and for all of the critiques the program, I was still more than happy to go. Some of what I've said could be 'nitpicking', but I think that 'nitpicking' is important when people are going to commit thousands of dollars and months if not years of their time to an institution.

I also just wanted to say that I really appreciate a lot of the points that were brought up in this discussion. I believe that looking critically at any institution can be very positive, because its helpful in weighing what works, what doesn't work so well. Prairiegirl2015: Just to answer your question, I'll really miss York, but I'm leaning towards Ryerson.

Hi smpalesh, I think that what I was trying to convey in my post might have not come across very well, and maybe some of that has to do with the difficulty in communicating tone on internet forums. To clarify on the repeated "so I've heard"s and sharing that I wasn't accepted to U of T, these were intentionally stated in the interest of being transparent. I don't think that it would have been fair for me to critique some aspects of the program were I not also forthcoming about my own personal experiences (or lack thereof). My goals fit more closely with options outside of U of T, and it took my being waitlisted twice for me to realize that. If some people find this information to be valuable, then I'm happy to have said it, but I also believe that everyone can form their own opinions without any influence from me.

You know what? Going to U of T would be a wonderful opportunity, honour, and priviledge. It was, for a very long time, my first choice, and it is where my partner got her MSW. I say that to temper what might come across as a bit of a rant, because while U of T is most definitely perceived as the "it" school for many of us social work hopefuls, I would highly recommend that you keep your options open to the other schools in the area. Why? Ideology. As others have said, U of T does clinical and research - and it heavily employs evidence-based, colonialism-derived knowledge (from what MSW students and professors have told me). For example there is a course based on the DSM, a manual that my current school critiques in pretty much every class. Other ways of going about social work - radical, critical, activist, post-structural struggle towards upsetting the status quo and flirting with disaster on the margins! will not likely be a priority at U of T. An exception to this might be the Social Justice stream, but even then, for all the stranglehold that U of T has on placements in the city, I have heard that SJ placements are largely policy based, with few clinical or grassroots options (again, just what I've heard, take with grain of salt, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). So if you are okay with learning from that kind of administrative, bureaucratic, generalist perspective (and as a waitlisted applicant, I was okay with that), then U of T might work for you. If you're hoping to dig deep and challenge popular social work themes like "AOP", "resilience", and "at-risk youth", then I don't know if you will see a lot of that kind of analysis at U of T (outside of the social justice stream). Another issue with the university is that they are kind of "wholesaling" MSW education - They take in the most students of the GTA universities, and charge them a high tuitition while the dean makes a small fortune each year. They also have an absolutely atrocious first-year placement system for the 2-year MSW, where a "computer program" randomly chooses your placement for students. I've heard that some people got incredible placements that led directly to work that they wanted, while others felt that their placements were horrible and completely unrelated to their goals. I've also heard that advanced placement/2nd year students have much better control over their practicums. That being said, there are other options for you that might better fit your needs. Do you want to do research with a high chance of getting funding? Great! York and Ryerson both require a "thesis"-like research paper, and York will even pay you via a guaranteed assistanceship while both programs give out a lot of entry scholarships. Do you want to receive a clinical MSW from a top school with an excellent reputation and prestige? Try WIlfred Laurier, whose clinical program is supposed to be amazing and whose reputation has often surpassed U of T (from what others have told me). Do you want to focus on work with Aboriginal Peoples and rural settings? Try Lakehead, who some people have told me is their "it" school for critical social work. So why was U of T my first choice? I wanted to explore clinical social work and was banking on the likelihood of a clinical placement (which you can choose amongst several options in the second year/advanced standing, unlike the first year). I also wouldn't have to justify being a clinical social worker with any regulatory body. The program ends a semester more quickly than Ryerson or York (I would have my MSW in a year!). There is no "thesis" requirement. The school is central to everything, and close to where I live. Why is it no longer my first pick? Obviously, I wasn't accepted (twice), but in being waitlisted for two years in a row, I've come to realize that I wouldn't be a good fit, especially not in the health and mental health stream that I chose. My GPA is a 3.9/4.0, with an A in research, and I have about 4000 hours of paid social service work and at least another 1000 in volunteer work. I'm guessing that it was the written statemtns in my application, both this year and last, that stopped me from getting accepted, and maybe that's because who I am as a social worker is simply not what they are looking for. I also think that what I've learned in my BSW would get muted there to some degree - I would be learning diagnoses rather than deconstructing them. While I won't be able to call myself a clinical social worker without extra training after I graduate, I now have an opportunity (mandatory) to work on a research project of my choice, and I'll get paid to do it. Hope this wasn't too personal relfection-y or too negative-y. Most of my opinions were based on other students' experiences, rather than my own. Had U of T accepted me, and I didn't have to think about other options, I'd probably be going there. Getting into U of T is a huge accomplishment, and I have also seen many people go on to do really wonderful things with their degrees. For me, however, the other options seem better,

I do think that you are a competitive applicant. You have a nice GPA, and you also have some interesting volunteer and research experience. Having an A in the research course that you selected would also be helpful. Other factors that you might consider are how well-written your application was (I think that this is where I might have lost out) and the strength of your references. Other than that, I think that it's an accomplishment just to get on the waitlist for the 2-year program. It certainly doesn't mean that you'll get in, but I've heard of a lot of people who entered the program from that situation. Also, don't give up on York! The competition might be steep, but they will look at your application from a critical social work lens, and your volunteer experience might shine there.

I accepted Ryerson's offer, but depending on funding, I may go to York because of the guaranteed assistanceship and very low tuition (not sure if the newly gained $3,000 minimum Summer funding actually changes anything for MSWs at York). I'm glad that I will finally learn what the Ryerson funding is about! I tried calling and emailing but never got any response from anyone. Congratulations on the free money! If it's the same for me, then I'll probably see you next September!

Just to continue this conversation, I wanted to say that 've noticed many times that we who work or learn in social services have a tendancy to run each other down (I'm guilty of this as well). I'm not sure why do it - maybe it's because the profession places us on the precipice of privilege and marginalization, and while we're there it's hard not to take something someone says as a personal invalidation. My own goal is to one day be able to (a la Marshall Rosenberg) have the strength to really hear what someone is saying to me without responding in a way that loses us the opportunity to learn things from each other. Anyway, from this learner to you, I wanted to say that I appreciate what everyone has contributed to this huge thread so far, and I hope that it's still a safe place for everyone to contribute their ideas.

I don't think that I could ever do the program justice, but I'll say what I can about it in a few paragraphs: It's an amazing program, and if I don't continue there then I will really miss it. Compared to U of T, York is not a "clinical" school - they focus directly on critical social work, starting with anti-oppression and moving onto increasingly post-structural frameworks. I learned a lot about how to critique systems, myself, and the social work profession itself. On more than one occasion, I felt compelled to ask myself if I would be an "agent of change" or "control", and would be willing to risk everything to uphold these values? Our research class mostly covered standard research design stuff, but while evidence-based knowledge was promoted as a positive, we also recognized that we exist in a system of colonized knowledge. My biggest issue with the program is that outside of our placements and a dyad-based communications class, we did not learn specific practical strategies (eg. what to expect as a case manager, how to network with other organizations, protocols around crises). As someone who was already working in the field before I started there, it was a nice complement to my own professional experiences. The profs who taught me were mostly really great.

I received my letter from York dated March 11. The funding doesn't really go over any further information that wasn't in their emails - but as I York BSW student I can tell you that you get $3,000 per semester (2 year program = 5 semesters I think) but you also have to commit to being a GA and work 10 hours weekly, while tuition is somewhere around $2, 000+ per semester (around $6,000 for 1 year MSW). I'm not sure if the strike at York will lead to higher wages for MSWs next year, but tuition remains the lowest in the province and all MSWs qualify as unit 3 for CUPE 3903, so they also get wicked benefits from Sun LIfe. Ryersons's funding package was on the second page of the email, under the heading "FInancial Support", stating the amount and that they would send more info shortly (I'm guessing by mail)? I'm still not sure if Ryerson's funding is contingent on being a GA, if anyone knows, I'd really like to find out, thanks!

Hey guys, I got accepted to both Ryerson and York for one year MSWs and I'm trying to decide between them. I'm wondering about Ryerson's funding package - do they require you to do GA work in order to receive the funding like York does, or is this essentially "free money"? Thanks to anyone who knows!