Academic Incest Stigma

[stevep]

What does everyone think about doing your undergrad and Ph.D (philosophy, specifically) at the same school? My concern is not about acceptance, but rather job prospects. I have heard from some people that schools look down upon an applicant with all degrees from the same school when considering them for a faculty position. Is this just one of those things that varies from school to school?

[tskinner]

I do think it may be rather limiting. Say you got your bachelors and doctorate at a small private, then a large research institution may be hesitant to hire you. And vice versa

[JustChill]

I've heard nothing but negative feedback about that, too. I would definitely advise against that if you plan to seek positions outside of that same university.

[peppermint.beatnik]

I've heard nothing but negatives too. There are exceptions--someone on this board made the case pretty well. Generally, I wouldn't do it.

[socialpsych]

I think "stigma" is too strong a word for this issue. It's a tradeoff, really. Is there some truth to the assertion that, ceteris paribus, having both degrees from the same school places you at a disadvantage? Probably. But that's ceteris paribus. If your school has a very highly regarded program and/or you have a great research fit there, or you have other reasons to think that you will be substantially more productive there than elsewhere, then it could certainly be worthwhile. You should probably also make an extra effort to cultivate connections outside of your program, especially by collaborating with people at other programs whenever possible, and by networking actively at conferences. But my sense is that it can definitely pay off if you're aware of the risks and you manage them well.

That was the decision I was facing a year ago: whether to go with my alma mater (same university as undergrad but different field), thought of as the #1 program, and where I had a fantastic research fit and got along great with the other students and faculty (and in a part of the country I love, to boot!) -- vs. other top-5 programs without quite the same fit. Almost no one advised me against the alma mater simply because my undergrad degree was from there, and clearly it made all the sense in the world for me to stay...so that's what I ended up doing. And so far, I think it was definitely the right decision.

That said, I'm not on the job market yet so I don't actually know how my "inbred" CV will be perceived...check back in 4 years!

Edited February 13, 2010 by socialpsych

[liszt85]

I haven't heard good things about it either but I do know people who are doing it. One example is a student here who did a BA in Philosophy here and is now a graduate student in Psych but I guess this is more acceptable than BA in Psych-PhD in Psych at the same university.

[Tall Chai Latte]

At one of my interviews, I saw/heard different things on this matter. I've met some faculty members who returned to their PhD alma mater as professors (I suppose this is okay?), and there was one who even stayed at the same place to do her MS, PhD, post-doc, and now a professor at that very same place. I've chatted with them about their research, and all of them appear to be doing quite well academically. Some told me that it's important to branch out, broaden your horizon, expose to new thought patterns etc, so I don't know -- this school I visited is a top-20 school in my field. Maybe that offsets the effect of "academic incest stigma" somewhat?

Thanks for asking this question, I'm having the same concern too. Oh, I just remembered one of my interviewers told me: If a person stays at the same place and do well, it's likely to be the place. If a person moves around and do well, it's likely to be the person.

Edited February 14, 2010 by TallChai

[iceman]

My current advisor also told me to apply to my current school, but only as a back up. He said, you should try to go some where else.

His reasoning - Aim at better schools, build your contacts, try a new advisor and lab, get diverse letters of recommendation in the future.

Edited February 13, 2010 by iceman

[twocosmicfish]

From what I have observed it is generally a negative - you have a more limited exposure to other faculties, other methodologies, etc. There is always the question of how much of your success is due to your department or advisor. The exception (as someone else noted) is when you are at a top-5 program in your field. Everyone knows that grad admissions at that level are very capricious, and no one expects you to drop to an inferior program just so you have that diversity. This is why it is not uncommon to find Harvard and MIT grads who went the BA/BS to PhD at the same school, and no one has a problem with it.

[HelloKaty37]

One of my profs was actually talking about this today. She said specifically that she has known people who got all their degrees from Harvard and had a difficult time finding work after graduation because of the lack of diversity in their schooling. So I would bet it has less to do with how awesome the school is and much more to do with what you can produce at the school that makes it an exception to the rule. If you find that your alma mater is the only place you are accepted where you feel a good "fit" or where you can do good work, I would think that would work in your favor when explaining to future employers why you stayed.

[JennyFieldsOriginal]

if it is far and away the best program you get into, i say go back to your undergrad institution.

i applied to my undergrad institution, and that was the advice i heard at least.

on the other hand, my mentor has known me since i was an 18 year old freshman. he has been a wonderful (and towering) figure in my academic life. i think we will remain close wherever i choose to go for graduate school, and i will always always always want his feedback and opinions on my work. i will always value that relationship...but i can't see myself being mentored by that person for the next 6 years of my life. i think a decade with someone is just too much. if i stayed at my undergrad institution i would have become a disciple not a protege, and that gets to be a really weird and dangerous situation i think.

i'm just putting my two cents in though, i know everyone is different and not everyone has a relationship with their mentor that would make this a danger. i have a kind of doe-eyed reverence for my teachers (slight exaggeration) that made this a BIG consideration for me. i think a lot of people who are pursuing graduate school admire their teachers a lot, so it's maybe something to think about.

[red_crayons]

I've been thinking about this. I applied to my alma mater at the last minute, mashing together sections from other (professionally-oriented) programs' SOPs to make a giant (academically-oriented) SOP. On the recommendation of two faculty members, I applied to two departments. At other universities, I think they are VERY different fields, but for whatever reason there is a lot of theoretical and course overlap between them here.

During my undergrad I had a major in biology, a minor in French, and an informal minor in Linguistics. Since graduating, I've taken some comp lit courses in theory-heavy departments. The field I was accepted to at my undergrad university is traditionally in the social sciences. But, the person I want to work with lets his students veer pretty far into the humanities/theory, because of the ties with the second department I applied to.

No one is ever going to understand my transcript at this point, let alone be able to interpret my reasons for the kind of work I hope to produce in grad school. I don't think I'm in much danger of seeming like I pigeonholed myself into one way of thinking; on the contrary, I'll probably seem sort of unfocused and crazy. However, I may come off as a little spoiled, for having stayed here so long where there's great academic and financial and social support, and (obvi) a LOT of opportunity to explore new academic areas (instead of being force to commit myself to My Field).

THAT's what I love about my school - the huge array of opportunities available - and that's why it makes sense for me to stay. You find out about someone through the grapevine, you take their class, their class is interesting, and you get interested in a whole new field to take classes in for the next two years!

Still, I'm not necessarily aiming for TT, so I can afford to ignore the academic incest stigma for now.