GodelEscher
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Posts posted by GodelEscher
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What everyone above me said.
Also- think of this as your career. You have like, 50 years of your career left. enrolling in a program one year later won't make a huge difference as far as ruining your career, but you can have plenty of experiences during that year that will help your career over the long haul.
Valid point. Besides, I need this year to re-evaluate whether this is really what I want. Everything happens for a reason. Maybe I do not understand the reason - but I will later.
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Neil Armstrong walked on the moon but when he got home he still had to take out the trash.
-Just read that. Love it...
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I don't care about your father, I don't care about your choreography, I don't care that your lab always creates PhD student or your lack of moral support.You're acting immature.I glad you've found a place to vent. A lot of people (me included) might be turned off by your post- don't let us get in your way. This anger is a natural reaction; let it pass, observe it. No matter how hard you've worked there is always room for improvement.
Don't be so quick to insult the masters degree; maybe it isn't for you, just don't imply it is a failure and insult the professionals that have the masters.
Neil Armstrong walked on the moon but when he got home he still had to take out the trash.
I am human, and hurt from rejection does pass ultimately. I did not mean to attack Masters programs per se, rather it is an admittance that maybe I need the masters to gain experience for a possible future in PhD.
Either way, spite does not live long in my heart. I think I probably belong in a Masters program....and i suppose I came off rather abrasive (like a lot). I guess this is not the place to vent.
If I offended anyone sorry I am honest and get frustrated...LOL i am human. The ultimate karma has already happened...
- beethomeister and geitost
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It's good to vent, but I'm not going to pat your back. This may come off as harsh but, to be perfectly honest, I don't really care.
First, you are not your father. His accomplishments are not, and never will be, your accomplishments. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do and your success or failure has, or at least should have, absolutely nothing to do with his. Despite the stress that his work is causing you, it should not be your concern whether or not you mimic his life.
Second, you are not your lab. You are not your lab partners. When adcomms look at your application I very seriously doubt they are saying "ApexKnowledge worked in xxxxxx lab! We must admit/deny him/her!" Your lab experience is only one part of a body of work you are sending to a grad school, what about the rest? Do you have publications? Do you have conference paper/poster presentations? Have you done any of your own research? How was your SOP? Did you clearly lay out what you wanted to do, what you expected from the program, and how them selecting you would be mutually beneficial? Did you successfully walk the line between "I'm the best you've ever seen!" and humility? If any of those is no then you should probably reevaluate your application materials because you were probably competing against people who did. With some schools accepting only 1-in-40 applicants you can't leave room for error.
It sounds like you only applied to two schools, or maybe one with two interviews. Why? PhD programs are competitive and applying for such a small number is setting yourself up for disappointment. You don't need to apply only to schools where you are an absolute 100% fit in the program but also to those where you are a close fit but can address holes in what is currently being done there. You are not just applying to be a student but are also applying to be a colleague. You need to be able to add just as much as you support.
Finally, your treatment of master's programs is unfair. Just because it is not your dream does not mean that you need to belittle others. This is true even when you are venting. If the hubris you show here came through in your application or interviews that very well could be why you were not selected.
"I don't really care" ...
I know
I applied to 15 FYI but either way you are so right. I appreciate the honesty. -
I hear you loud and clear and would like to say that this applies to other programs too. F**k the whole process. People on the outside don't understand how grueling and soul-sucking it is to apply, and wait, and get rejected etc. I'm so sick of hearing "you can try again next year!" Sure, I *can*, but just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should, y'know? I honestly don't know if I have another round in me, and I worry that I will be disappointing the people who have been supportive of me if I decide to just move on. I think this is the scariest point in the process for me so far - deciding what to do next if the grad school route doesn't pan out for me.
So flipping right! See I am not alone! I am a little irritated that people say "Well at least you tried." Ummm that never helps. People have no understanding that this a grueling and painful experience. What's worse is that the grad students that I work with only applied to *ONE* program....me? 15.
I think I have come to accept that I will not get in this season, nor will I try again next year. Either you get in or you don't. I honestly don't have the financial and emotional means to do it again. I have minimal support around me. Maybe from the grad students :pat on the back: "there's always next year" or from my mom "At least you tried, some people never try for a PhD"....sorry mother that does not help....sorry grad students I am not a whiz like you.
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I see your frustration but you'll have to take a step back and not only look at yourself and your goals but also possible alternatives.
Like others here I got rejected from every Ph.D. (in clinical psych) program I applied to last season (all 15 of them) without so much as an interview. So congrats on at least getting interviewed. I had recently finished a masters, done research, and worked in the field and still got rejected without even a chance to interview. i took a step back, assessed my situation and my interests and applied again this time to a mix of Psy,D, and Ph.D. programs. Got two Psy.D. interviews and feel pretty good about the outcome, still waiting on other schools but I feel I have a good shot this time of getting something rather than nothing.
Consider going for a masters, doing a research thesis, working in the field some more. Look at what you really want out of the field and in your own professional goals.
Yes, I think the fact that I do not even have an UG thesis may be the culprit, which I feel is a little unfair because my UG program did not even have one (can you believe that!). So hopefully getting into a Masters program will help if I chose to reapply next year.
No interview for 15 program? Ouch. As another rejection email comes in (this morning) I have realized this process is not about being less competitive rather, maybe finding different programs that fit or the necessity to build my CV more.
Either way, I am reassessing whether this is the field for me. Things look rather different when you are a single mom with no support. Frustrating but maybe I am not meant for this field. Maybe I am a better fit in a different area of research....
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my friend i am sorry for my strong opinion but you seem to have a temper and you seem to be "all over the place", and you seem to not actually have true conviction for research in psychology. If I were interviewing you and I saw any of these signs, I would not consider you fit for 4/5 years of hard research
LOL so judgmental
but funny at the same time.
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I agree with margarets. Just because this guy/girl is pissed off and verbally erratic here, on an internet forum, due to a seriously demoralizing rejection streak, doesn't mean we should make assumptions about his/her professional performance or character. If OP was rejected from 4 places back-to-back, having outstanding credentials and no clear-cut reason as to why (s)he was rejected, of course OP is going to feel confused, scorned, upset, humiliated. And of course his/her words will reflect that. This is a place to vent, for Christ's sake; if we aren't empathetic to each other here, then where?
ApexKnowledge-- I wish I had some magic words to make this all okay for you. Assuming you really do have the high GPA and research credentials you mentioned, it boggles my brain that you'd receive so many rejections. For what it's worth, I don't think you're displaying a sense of entitlement, as "entitlement" indicates you expect something you did not work for. But you worked for this. Hard. So I think your frustration and anger is warranted.
I know this will seem impossible, but try not to take it personally. These rejections, hard as it may seem, do not necessarily reflect on you. They may just reflect on the competitiveness of the programs you applied to. For instance, my uncle had his Master's degree, with a 3.9 GPA, stellar GRE scores, and 6 years of highly relevant research experience in his field. 2 of those years he spent working directly with the Head of MIT's department. Yes, MIT-- one of the best schools in the world. And he still got rejected from 4 out of the 5 PhD programs he applied to. He was overly qualified, in most peoples' opinions, but was dealt the same harsh blow as you. But it was only because the PhD programs he applied to were SUPER competitive. They accepted fewer than 15 students per year, and for every 1 open spot, received nearly 50 applications.
So he was a big fish in most ponds, so to speak, but a smaller-than-average fish in the ENORMOUS pond of PhD applicants. It's all relative. Similarly, you seem to have incredible credentials and I hope that you-- as well as your father-- are extremely proud of them. You've already come such a long way and have done a lot more than most people. Take pride in that, and never underestimate it. Just keep in mind that, when it comes to many PhD programs, you are up against the best in the world. That's a tall order, for anybody.
I agree with whoever posted previously that you should start thinking about Plan B, just for your own mental stability's sake. Maybe you'll get taken off that wait-list and all will be well. But having back-up plans in place is extremely important under any circumstances, not just grad school. Personally, while I wait for all my acceptances/rejections to come in, I am applying to as many jobs as I can and laying the groundwork for re-applying next year, if it comes to that. I'm writing up a personal financial plan for the coming 12 months, to make sure I have the money to retake the GRE and get higher scores; I'm sending thank-you cards to all those who wrote recommendations for me, and in those cards, asking them to keep their letters in case I apply again in the future. Basically, I am preparing myself and my life to sustain another 12 months until I can try again, just in case. You should definitely do the same. Come up with a 12 month plan for yourself.
And part of this plan should include things to look forward to. As you've experienced, this process can be extremely demoralizing. It takes so much out of us. So put something on your calendar that makes you smile, even if it's something relatively small. For example, I am planning a mini roadtrip with my friend. It won't be for another few months, and it will only last 4 days because we can't afford anything longer than that. But those 4 days will be bliss, and they'll allow us to escape for a while and recharge from all this grad school-related stress.
Do the same for yourself. You're worth that, and you'll probably need it. If you can't afford even 4 days away, plan for a friend to just come over for a whole weekend and have a movie marathon, or go see a concert, or play laser tag or do something childish and fun that you wouldn't normally do. It'll help you, really. And in the meantime, remember that you aren't alone in these experiences, that many, many others with great qualifications are being rejected too. Please don't beat yourself up too much.
Very best of luck, friend.
Ahh a voice of reason. Thank you for understanding. Although rejection is rough (why did they decide to reject all at the same time?) it is part of this overwhelming process. In regards to Plan B, you have a valid point - since I may not be competitive "enough" (and I though I was) there is always room for more achievement so I am re-focusing on my masters interview this morning. Although 4 rejections at once are hurtful, I am realistic. I get angry, I am human....now I am over it. So be it. Now on to the next conquest...plus I am still waitlisted at one program so I won't know where I will be after April 15th.
Either way I am proud this application process is challenging me because I would not be part of it if it was not. It's a new day....besides I did not know I would be criticized for being "human" and frustrated from the process (aren't we all in the same boat?). Isn't that what the internet is for? To vent? and get over it? geez...
- GodelEscher and cromulent
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Um... I think the OP was just having an online vent. We shouldn't assume this is how the OP presented themselves at interview, or that the vent is indicative of deep psychological problems. Four rejections in one day is enough to upset anyone.
Oh goodness thank you. Yes, my previous post was quite negative. We all have our moments. Ahh but a new morning does a lot when I have realized that life never goes the way we "want." I am a little frustrated with 4 consecutive rejects via email. Seriously, what an odd phenomenon (or maybe not). Either way now that it's a new morning, I have slept and dealt with realty...'tis ok.
Sometimes we get in...sometimes we don't. I'm just glad I applied to various programs so now re-focusing on achieving a well funded masters program.
At times we fall, but the point is getting up...not dwelling on why....so here I am, slapping the dirt of me and facing the embarrassment. Life goes on (thank goodness).....eh bitterness never lasts in my heart (there are better things to waste energy on).
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Well, qualifications, GPA, research experience and the academic pedigree of your father won't count for much if you don't interview well.
Your paper file can only get you up to the point of an invite to interview...if you then turn up in person and the AdComm don't think you're a suitable match for their program...you'll get rejected.
I was rejected from all the PhD programs I applied to in the 2011-2012 cycle. Yes rejection hurts, but please hold on to your dignity. Bitterness isn't going to help you in the long run, it'll only make you do things that you regret. Sense of entitlement won't get you anywhere either, certainly not in the most competitive PhD programs.
Re-apply again to Psychology programs next year. Perhaps there are schools out there that are a better match your research interests. Network with more professors in your field, it will give you experience of "interview-like" situations and how to establish rapports with faculty. Make sure that your SOP and letters writers aren't undermining the other parts of your application.
So true...thank you for the insight. Although I am very negative, I may be bias because I received 4 rejections in one day so I am quite spiteful. However you have made some great points
- GodelEscher, w8inggame and epsilon
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my friend i am sorry for my strong opinion but you seem to have a temper and you seem to be "all over the place", and you seem to not actually have true conviction for research in psychology. If I were interviewing you and I saw any of these signs, I would not consider you fit for 4/5 years of hard research
forgive me for my anger that seems justified...my father is a stanford grad with 120 pubs and well known in his field...you would feel less than if you were in my position as well
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I do want research, I'm sorry my anger blurrs that. I am not all over the place rather very sarcastic. Maybe you do not understand dry humor. Besides i never showed any other 'signs'...like you know?
- GodelEscher and w8inggame
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Rejection hurts is not accurate enough to describe. I think this whole process is pathetic (psychology). Getting a 4.0 is not good enough and having excellent research experience is not good enough. So we compete into a program so we can get a job for 30,000 (internship) or 60,000 (faculty). There has got to be something better out there. This is dehumanizing, humiliating and disgusting.
I think I should just go into a PA program, do my prereques and complete a 2 year program so I can make 70,000 a yr...Nobody cares how established you are in academia. Nobody cares if you are a great researcher...f***k it. I want to go back into surgery where I belong
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I am not going to make it. Continue on without me...
atleast u dont have 2 rejections for Phd programs post interview.....I have nothing. nothing. No more PhD interviews. 15 applications and all I got was a bottle of vodka to drown my sorrows. One waitlist (#6)....I'm a failure
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Rejected from two PhD programs post interview. Screw this whole process....
Now all I can interview is for masters programs? So what, I can be a LPC and work while I feel the failure of never getting a PhD program succumb me? I hate this process. 2 rejections post interview for PhD, 3 masters programs pending and a disgust that won't leave me. Oh yeah and a pitiful waitlist for # 6 (yay :sarcasm:).
So what do I do now? Beg to get off waitlist? Maybe if I fly over for their Masters program interview and speak to PhD program they might see I have dedication? Hell I don't know....
maybe I should give up, get a PhD in leadership (education) LOL..the program is only 2 years! then laugh at other people who took the "rigorous" 5+ yr route...har har har...someone fill up my vodka!!! Cause I am going into education...
or should I beg for NMSU (New Mexico) Phd program....I can't bear all these rejections. I flippin went to Julliard and Calarts, I'm talented...i should have stayed as a professional dancer/choreographer.
what to do....oh maybe get a refill on my drink so I can drown in my sorrows. Sounds good
- GodelEscher, Panama Slim, lypiphera and 10 others
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Hi guys. This has been on my mind for a long time and it's been really really hard for me to share with anyone, so thanks for taking the time to listen.
I finished applying to graduate programs and have been waiting to hear back to see if I get admitted anywhere. And the longer I wait, the more and more hopeless I am starting to feel. I really don't think I'm going to get in anywhere. I don't think I'm good enough. I started to think of a plan B for what I'll do if I get rejected everywhere, and I realized...I don't want to have a plan B. Nothing else seems worth it. It seems like this is my whole life, my whole future, my only option. The more and more I thought of it, the more I came to the realization.... I think that if I don't get into school anywhere I want to kill myself. I've been thinking this for about a month now. I know it sounds ridiculous and irrational but it seems like it's the only option for me. I've lost a very close friend to suicide in the past, and I know how painful it is to lose someone like that. I've been through tough times before, but I never wanted to follow through with it because I didn't want to hurt the people I love. Right now it seems like that's the only thing holding me back if I don't get in. grad school is my only chance for a future. If I don't get in, there is nothing else for me here. I know it's messed up. But I can't stop thinking like this. I am so behind in my schoolwork because I am constantly worrying about grad school and can't get myself to focus on anything else in my life.
it seems like my only option left.
I don't know what to do.
(note -- this is not an I am actively going to hurt myself/I am a danger to myself right now/etc etc... I just want to make these thoughts go away. I'm not going to follow through with those thoughts. But I don't know how to stop thinking this way...it scares me.)
2nd rejection post interview...I have no more PhD interviews....let's go get a PhD in education. It only takes 2 years and then we can work in healthcare. Make all the drs call me Dr. and make fun of all those people who went to 5+ year programs...har har har I got my PhD in 2 years.... LOL
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Received rejection after second interview for Counseling PhD program. I am angry. So flipping angry. I worked so hard to get to this point. I had no moral support in my relationship which fell apart and no support from my family. How am I supposed to continue and face people at my lab? Every year people have got accepted into PhD programs from my lab, now I have tarnished their streak.
How am I supposed to deal? My father is a renown Stanford and Columbia grad who has hundreds of papers published, got tenured in a few years after his Phd....and I have nothing. What a masters program? That is failure. To boast and be confident that all the research hours, the countless dedication ultimately means nothing.
I am disgusted that I have been rejected after two interviews. Disappointed, astonished, angry.
I don't have enough energy to do this again. I give up. I hate my f****n life. Masters program? Then what, work a measly job as a therapist while I know I failed.
Maybe this career is not for me. I am not built for rejection. For god's sake I went to Julliard, I went to Calarts, I worked as a professional dancer in my first career. I was the cream of the crop in choreography...but psychology I am fighting for the top.
This profession is not for me. It makes my skin crawl. I guess I am going back to flipping school for my prerequisites to be a PA....f***k this.
I am so angry. I can't believe this.
- mambeu, hustlebunny, Tuck and 2 others
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-wrote this out of anxiety, half from life experience, and half from what i observe, correct me if i am wrong.
just want to keep your mind off the waiting game for a little bit, don't take anything seriously or personal please
applying to grad schools vs. getting pregnant, something in common
-it is not for everyone, people can live without it, and life is just fine
-there is no one correct answer to “when,” it always depends on “when” you are ready
-for a lot of people, it is not the first time
-average age is around 27-29, again, some people make it happen in their early 20's, some people wait until their 40's. teen grad students do happen once in a while, ex: Dr. Sheldon Cooper
-the process usually lasts about 9 months. for grad school applications, usually Sep - May, and pregnancy is more flexible
-you start by doing research online, asking around for suggestions
-during the 9 months, you always start with excitement, and later on, you are just like “why am I doing this to myself!!!!”. Frequent morning sickness.
-later, you will experience freaking-out, nervous breakdown, afraid if something went wrong, “maybe I should wait another year or so,” constantly need to be part of a community with others who are on the same boat, and, compare notes with them
-you will get sick of people asking you the same damn question over and over again. "what is your top choice?" "it is a boy or a girl?"
-costs a lot $$$ here and there, you don’t even notice, by the time you do, you don’t even care
-you don’t get to choose, you just put out your best, and pray that the best would come to you
-you don’t know the final result, but whatever you end up with, 99% of you will love it
-you think, “When all of this is over, I will be so happy.”
-NO, you are WRONG. the next 2- 3 years means rarely eating on time, you become secondary for something else, and get SUPER excited for something as little as “I slept for 8 hours last night!”
-It is never a question of when because you will never be completely ready. Ever.
-For a lot of people it takes many attempts before it is the result they want.
-you start by accidently telling someone you "just might try"...next thing you know it, you are out of obligation.
- you think, "When all of this is over, finally I will be happy"...then you realize it never comes.
- Once it happens....you are never first. Impossible to be selfish...research/child is always first
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Graduated HS early (one month after 17 yr old birthday) and graduated with Associates from Community College. Applied all over for undergrad - went to CALARTS then got injured while performing/ choreographing in LA. Then went to Nursing school, went to mortuary school (hated it, dropped out month later), went to Cardio Tech school (bored) then started working as gasteroenterology tech (surgery) and later became anesthesia assistant. Tired of working for 50-60 hours a week with no respect, so finished my last 52 credits in one year, was RA for 3 labs, did posters, etc...and now graduated 3.78 GPA and a paid RA for one lab while I wait on acceptances.
I am not the first to go to college, father went to Stanford (Phd) and Columbia - mom has Masters in administration, so I have some big shoes to fill (dad has 4 + books, prominently published in Chicano Studies and grad w/ Phd at 29, tenured soon thereafter...like seriously)
Oh and I had a child while working 50 hrs a week, taking five classes and doing research. I only missed two classes to have my daughter to resume to the craziness as usual. I'm seriously eager to get in to a PhD program, especially when I spent a lot of time & money & energy on 16 applications....
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I got an interview for University XXXX!
"Isn't that far?"
"Yes, a few states away"
"So that means you have to move?"
"Uhh...yes. It is a PhD program"
"Well what are you going to with _____ (my daughter)"
....."ummm take her!"
So moving for a PhD program means I am no longer a mother , huh?
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I have nothing to add, I just was excited because I haven't seen anyone else applying to North Dakota.
Awesome! I don't feel alone....I'm super excited and people still wonder why ("why did you apply there?"). Sometimes I feel I might have been the only applicant....
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Me: "I got an interview!"
Family: " For a job?"
Me: "No for grad school!"
Family: "Oh...."
*seriously I only talk about it everyday*
"Where did you apply?"
"all over, to like 15 schools"
"uh, why so many?" - BECAUSE IT IS COMPETITIVE!!!!
"I got an interview at Univ. of North Dakota!!!!"
*ugly face* "what is in North Dakota, isn't it cold there?"
"A flippin awesome PhD program for counseling psychology"
"So what are you up to?"
"Applying to phd programs"
" Isn't that a lot of work?"
LOL
I have given up on telling people my updates because everyone is a debbie downer or just don't "get it"
My fav- "So what programs are you applying to?" "Counseling psychology" "Oh, so you want to read minds?"
....huh?
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Plan A: Get into PhD program
Plan B: ...refer to plan A
F***k this process
in Waiting it Out
Posted
At this point after two PhD interviews (rejected) and 5 Masters interviews (pending) I kind of feel I am playing the lottery...although I am frustrated with this process I have come to like the idea of attending a Masters program, doing a thesis and working. Maybe a PhD is not in my cards right now, not because I am not competitive (4 posters, 2 talks; international and local conferences, pending publication) rather maybe this is the world telling me I need to work a little, and research a lot. Maybe apply to more diverse programs like health/beha. med. or even MD/PHD programs. Maybe I applied to the wrong programs for me. I am confident I am a very strong candidate but maybe my nursing/surgical background will stand out in a more medical oriented field???
Maybe?