DaniCM

Reading the thread, there are essentially 2 arguments against paying my car off with a lower interest, deferable, grad plus loan: 1. school loans are non-discharable, and 2. I wont need a car in Boston. Normally, I would find the first argument pretty convincing on its own, but I'm talking about a pretty small amount of money: $5-6K. I'm not considering putting a down payment on a house or buying a brand new car, both of which I've known grad students to do. If I really end up in such a dire economic state that I am forced to file bankrupty and go into default on my school loans, the $5-6K from my car will not be the final nail in my coffin. I already have $45K from undergrad and expect at least another $30 from grad school. And I certainly do want to minimize my total debt, student loans or otherwise, but I will need to take loans for grad school, and I have already done so for my car. I feel like self-consolidating these two loans, for which I'll receive an overall lower interest rate, is making the best of my debt reality. On the second point, selling my car is certainly something I've considered, and will continue to do so over the next few months. I worry about the argument I wont need a car in Boston simply bc I currently live in the DC metro area, where public transportation (certainly the metro) is arguably better than in Boston, and I still find having a car extremely useful. Going to the grocery store, homes of friends who live in surrounding suburbs, or taking my dog to the vet is made much easier with a vehicle. Additionally, I plan to come back down to DC from Boston during breaks and will need to bring my dog. How would I do that without a car? Plus, even if I sell my car, there's gonna be a gap between what I get for it and what I owe on it. That gap will still have to be paid with Grad Plus money, as I'm using all my savings for the move to Boston.

I got an email from fin aid about a week ago. It just listed the standard 10,250/semester and 1800 for federal work study. Maybe check your spam folder or give fin aid a quick call.

I make many a life decision based on Drake's advice. haha...why the strong aversion, Vince?

haha, my feelings exactly. Intuitively, it seems to make sense to me. When you consider I'll likely have to take out close to $60K altogether for grad school, another $6/7K doesn't seem like much, particularly since it means I'll be paying back that $6/7K with a lower interest rate. And if I'm going to be using some of my student loans to make my car payment anyway over the 2 years I'm in school, why not just do it up front?

So, weird question, but I didn't know where to put it... I was offered $19K/year and some federal work study money from Fletcher, in addition to the standard $20,500 unsubsidized direct loan. Taken together, my scholarship, unsubsidized direct loan and federal work study money will cover my first year tutition, but I'll still need to work part time as well as take out a Grad Plus loan to cover living expenses while in school. I also have a $200/month payment on a car I bought last year for $8K. As a full time grad student, I'll have to use a combination of my Grad Plus loan money and my part time wages (assuming I get a job) to pay my car payment while in school. So, my question is, since I'll likely be using (at least some) loan money to make my car payment each month anyway, does it make sense to just take out a larger Grad Plus loan than I otherwise would in order to pay off my car? The interest rate on the Grad Plus loan (7.9%) is cheaper than my car loan (almost 12%), plus payments would be deferred until after I graduate, should I need that cushion. I do realize interest on Grad Plus loans still accumulates while you're in school and I risk "paying interest on interest," but I'm hoping to make payments on the Grad Plus loan when/if I have the extra money during both the academic year and the summer (when I can work full time and make more money). Thoughts?

So, weird question, but I didn't know where to put it... I was offered half tuition scholarship and some federal work study money from Fletcher, in addition to the standard $20,500 unsubsidized direct loan per year. Taken together, my scholarship, unsubsidized direct loan and federal work study money will cover my first year tutition, but I'll still need to work part time as well as take out a Grad Plus loan to cover living expenses while in school. I also have a $200/month payment on a car I bought last year for $8K. As a full time grad student, I'll have to use a combination of my Grad Plus loan money and my part time wages to pay my car payment while in school. so my question is, since I'll be using (at least some) loan money to make my car payment each month anyway, does it make sense to just take out a larger Grad Plus loan than I otherwise woul in order to pay off my car? The interest rate on the Grad Plus loan (7.9%) is cheaper than my car loan (almost 12%), plus payments would be deferred until after I graduate, should I need that cushion. I do realize interest on Grad Plus loans still accumulates while you're in school. I'm hoping to make payments on the Grad Plus loan when/if I have the extra money during both the academic year and the summer (when I can work full time and make more money). Thoughts?

I just tried with SAIS. The Financial Aid director was extremely nice, candid, and empathetic, but it was still a no go. She pretty much told me to go to Fletcher...haha. Off I go, then!

Previous Schools (Name, type, or tier): Georgeotwn University, private, top 25 Previous Degrees and GPAs: Bachelor's of Arts (major: Government, minor: history) 3.6 GRE Scores (Verbal/Quantitative/Analytical Writing): 160, 153, 4.5 (I'm not a great standardized test taker...womp womp) Previous Work Experience (Years, Type): 2 years professionally, analyst with homeland security. various internships, to include Peace Corps headquarters and Capitol Hill. volunteer experience in Peru and Colombia Math/Econ Background: calc, stats, macro, micro Foreign Language Background (if applicable to your program): proficient Spanish and beginner French Intended Field of Study in Grad School: International Security Studies and Conflict Resolution Long Term Professional Goals: Foreign Service, international security policy, state building work (ie USAID), IC analysis Schools Applied to & Results:SAIS, SIPA, Fletcher, SIS (admitted to all with $19k/year scholarship from Fletcher) Ultimate Decision & Why: Fletcher. I really like the community at Fletcher, as well as the flexibility of the program. They seem very hands on and personally invested in the success of their students. Plus, they gave me $19k/year, work study, and the possibility of additional second year funding. ( : Advice for Future Applicants: start looking for and apply to grants/fellowships/alternative sources of funding as early as you start thinking seriously about grad school. Most application deadlines for major fellowships and grants are concurrent with grad school deadlines. It's hard to juggle both. For many people, getting accepted into a school you can't pay for is the same thing as being rejected. Don't put yourself through that disappoint by banking on financial aid from programs to which you are admitted. It's a miracle I got such a huge scholarship from Fletcher. Without it, I wouldn't be going to grad scool this year, despite having been accepted to every program to which I applied. Do not underestimate the narrative and conviction of your SOP and LORs. As you can see, my GPA is good but not exceptional, and my GRE scores are actually pretty shitty...yet I was admitted everywhere I applied (including 3 of the top 5 schools for IR in the world) with an enormous, meritt-based scholarship from Fletcher. Be fairly open-minded when considering where to apply (at least initially). Take time to really look into the meritts of competing programs. I wasn't originally planning on applying to Fletcher, but was convinced to do so by a Fletcher rep at an ASPIA grad school fair. I owe the next 2 years of my life (and a $38K scholarship) to that woman. That said, don't apply everywhere just for the sake of casting a wide net and hoping for a big haul. Applications are expensive and time consuming. Apply to programs you actually want to go to and put the appropriate amount of time and energy into personalizing each application to demonstrate your strengths specific to that program. In other words, quality over quantity. 7 decent apps aren't as likely to produce big payoffs as are 4 strong apps

I just spoke with Naomi Crespo, the Director of Fin Aid. I was trying to get them to reevaluate my funding offer...no go, by the way. She did tell me, however, that 25% of first year students receive aid, based almost entirely on meritt. Essentially, they rank you based on a number of factors (undergrad GPA, GRE scores, LORs, SOP, etc. ect.) and those ranked as being in the top 25% of applicants are offered some amount of aid. There is no second round of financial aid given after/if those awarded reject their admissions offer. A bigger pot of fin aid money is reserved for second year students. She said the percentage of second year students flutuates, but this year it was 50%...again, based on meritt - largely your GPA from your first year. Additionally, they "strongly" take into consideration those students who did not receive aid their first year but who excelled academically. Essentially, I feel I was told I had about 50% chance of getting an unknown amount of funding my second year if I were to meet an unarticulated academic performance measure, against which I am competing with every other second year student. Suffice to say, I don't like the odds considering I'm gambling the possibility of $120K in student loans. I will say, Naomi was extremely nice, candid, and even empathetic to my situation. In not so many words, she urged me to take my offer from Fletcher. I'll heed her advice.

Thanks to all for your thoughtful input. You all made very good points, which validate what I already knew, at least on a pragmatic level. I appreciate the enhanced level of complexity faced by those with no funding offers from any of the institutions to which they applied. It seems that those of you deciding to take the grad loan plunge are doing so thoughtfully. Good luck and congrats on your admissions! I'm sure your hard work and dedication will earn you second year funding! In my case, with the funding offer from Fletcher, I have to agree with all those that urged me to take that option. Fletcher is a fantastic school, on par with both SAIS and SIPA in both presitge and academic rigor. I think my inclination towards SAIS and SIPA may simply be "wanting what I can not have," in addition to prefered locations. But I do honestly think Fletcher is more suited to the experience I desire in grad school. All that said, there's no way I can justify passing up such a great opportunity at Fletcher to pay sticker price at SAIS or SIPA, simply to live in places which I would not otherwise pay $120K to live. I just needed help rationalizing that decision. Thanks, again!

I'm just curious if anyone is attending a program with little or no funding offer, and either planning on paying using mostly loans and/or banking on generous second year funding? I got a 1/2 tuition scholarship from Fletcher, with the possibility of additional second year funding opportunities, whereas I got nothing from SIPA or SAIS. I've pretty much decided it's insane of me to pass up a $38K scholarship from Fletcher to possibly put myself in $120K debt to attend SIPA or SAIS. However, the less pragmatic side of me laments missing out on the opportunity to live in NYC or spend a year in Italy. Given my career ambitions, I'll likely be a DC lifer, so I feel like grad school might be one of my last opportunities to live elsewhere, especially while young. Anyway, I'm about 95% sure I'll do the fiscally responsible thing and attend Fletcher, but I just wanted to see if anyone else was taking the debt plunge for grad school? I'm curious to hear people's long-term financial plans should they attend grad school with no or limited funding. What did you consider when making that decision? Thanks!!

I'm really happy with my choice of schools to which I applied. I started my apps with ample time to polish and finish them, asked for LORs with enough time for my recommenders to write strong letters (plus I provided them with a lot of info on myself, why I wanted to attend each program, and my long terms goals). I also gave myself enough time to retake the GRE. All good. However, I didn't start my grad school app process with enough time to simultaneously apply to a lot of fellowships and other funding sources. I also found out about a lot of sources of funding late in the game (school specific, named-fellowships, hispanic fellowships, etc.). I think I would have been pretty competitive for some of that funding, had I applied...womp womp. Particularly, I regret not putting more time and effort into the named-fellowships for SAIS and SIPA. It's a miracle I was given 1/2 tutition scholarship from Fletcher or I wouldn't be attending grad school this fall. Oh, I also wish I would have started saving money for grad school as soon as I realized I wanted to go, rather than waiting for admissions decisions. Having extra money to help cover my move and cost of living my first year would have been a great cushion and helped me avoid taking out too much debt for cost of living expenses.

Great info, Ivydreams! I can definitely see why people are tempted to take on bigger debt, get on one of the income based repayment plans, and bank on the gov forgiving the remainder of their loans after 10 years, but I still don't feel like that's a good plan A, or good rationale for taking on substantial debt. I believe the program began in 2007, so the first people wont be eligible for debt forgiveness until 2017...I'm really curious to see how things work out that first year. I feel like the program is still somewhat shrouded in mystery and confusion. Like I said, I have a number of colleagues surprised to find many of their loan payments didn't qualify and they had a difficult time understanding why. Anyway, when my time comes, I hope too to benefit from the program, but I'm definitely not putting all my eggs in the PSLF basket. ( :

I live in DC with only a bachelors and my first job out of school I was making $50K. My rent is pretty cheap for DC, as I live in a group house, but I also have a car payment and $500/month for undergraduate loans. I manage just fine - although I'll admit saving money is a bit difficult, but that's because I go out every weekend. My undergrad debt is $45k and I expect another $50k or so for grad school. It's not ideal, but working in policy and analysis, you really can't progress past about $60k without a master's. Given my work experience and education, I expect to make $70k out of grad school, with a lot more potential for salary and position mobility thereafter (mobility I would not have with just a bachelor's). That said, I understand Vince's aversion to $100K+ debt with a lower starting salary. I just think that if you're smart about it, budget, and really try to get as much aid as you can from your grad school, the investment in higher education pays off huge in this field (at least in the long term). Without a master's, there's not much of a point of getting into policy or analysis. Certainly not a think tank. Otherwise you really will be stuck around $50k/year, which wouldn't be realistic for having a family in one of the big cities, which are where the main policy hubs are.

One company I can think of is Monitor 360. They contract with different US gov agencies who are working with international partners. They're based in San Fran.

Hey Seekay, could you please provide me some feedback on your thoughts about SIPA and SAIS? I'm going to Fletcher's open house, but I don't think I can swing the other 2 because of work commitments. I would love some insight from those able to attend! Thanks!

I definitely will. Clay Made, can you please share your thoughts on SAIS, as well? I'm pretty settled on Fletcher, so I'm opting to go to their open house instead of SAIS (can't take off too much work), but I would still love the info before I fully commit!

That's a really good point. It will be more than a $38K difference, particularly bc SAIS isn't known for giving out much second year funding, cost of living will be more, and I would likely get second year funding at Fletcher. Telling myself it would be a $38K difference was merely the result of cognitive dissonance. ( : I don't think things happen for a reason, but maybe trying to force SAIS on myself isn't the best thing for me, not just fiscally, but content-wise as well. While I want to strengthen and hone my economic skills, I don't necessarily want to be a quasi economist, either. If I exercise some self control, I can get the econ and language training I want from Fletcher while keeping my focus international security and conflict resolution. Also, in a slightly unrelated note, for those banking on the fed loan forgivenss program, I suggest you research it a bit more. It's definitely not as easy as 10 years in the public sector and your debt disappears. For those 10 years, you must be on a payment plan that, theoretically, would allow you to pay your debt off in that 10 year time span. In other words, the debt forgiveness program requires you to be on the most expensive loan repayment program for those 10 years. Essentially, at the end of the 10 years you'll likely have very little debt to repay, anyway. I've worked in the public sector for 2 years now, and I've had a few colleagues who've looked into the program and found that most of their previous payments don't qualify. Just FYI.

I was admitted to SAIS Bologna and it's defintely my top choice - however, I was offered zero funding by SAIS, either year, compared to $19K/year from Fletcher. I don't know how I can justify at least a $38K difference in education expenses. Fletcher is a top tier school with a great community, plus I'd likely get additional second year funding and have a chance to make that year free... ugh, I really want to be in Italy next year. I want the strong economic and language background provided by SAIS - I need my feet held to the fire, because I normally shy away from econ. I think SAIS really provides its students with the professional tools necessary to get a range of jobs, including outside of traditional fed policy. I'm considering calling the financial aid office to "negotiate" funding. But from what I've seen on these threads that seems like it might be a lost cause. I just don't understand the huge disparity in funding between these two similarly ranked schools! particularly because SAIS Bologna offers aid to most students, on the basis of both merrit and need - which aligns to Fletcher's aid determination. Anyone have any insight on any of this? Or advice as to how I might go about negotiating...phone call, email, in person? Thanks!!

After receiving my offer, I asked my contact in the admissions office whether or not I would be eligible to apply for second year funding opportunities, such as TA and RA positions. She told me they have a process in place for second years to apply for additional funding, wherein you work with the fin aid office to identify opportunities for funding. I was given this link: http://fletcher.tufts.edu/admissions/financial-aid/additionalresources. In addition to the TA and RA positions, there's a fellowship program specifically for second years, as well as other named scholarships/fellowships which you must individually apply to. And, I'm not sure if you're aware, Fletcher has a loan repayment assistance program (different than the government one). Info here: http://fletcher.tufts.edu/Admissions/Financial-Aid/Loan-Repayment-Assistance-Program

Yea! I'll definitely keep you in the know as to the open house and my impressions. Let me know when you're flight is and we can try to coordinate a lunch!

If it's 19K/year, then it's at least a $38K difference, not to mention the fact you can likely procure second year funding at Fletcher making the second year completely free. Since you can take HKS classes as a Fletcher student and will largely be in the same social circles/have the same opportunities for local internships, etc., I just don't see why you would put yourself in so much debt simply for the HKS name, particularly bc Fletcher is a top tier IR school itself.

Just bought my tickets. I get in to BOS at 10 AM Sunday! Looking forward to lunch in Boston!

Perfect! I get in Sunday morning at 10 AM and leave Monday night at 7. I would have loved to spend the weekend in Boston, but I'm skydiving Saturday!!!

I also just created a post about the open house, suggesting we head to Boston early Sunday so we can explore a bit. It might be a good way to get to know one another and start staking out potential roommates!