tribesdude

It will be very difficult to offset a GPA as low as yours, but it is possible. As stated by another poster, they need more data points in order to try and evaluate you as a candidate. You should focus on stuff that you can control, such as your rec's, your sop, your GRE scores (a high GRE score wont get you in, but it will help offset the low GPA). Make sure to tell them why you had those low grades. That being said, if you are BS'ing within the essay, adcom's may be able to catch on that. As for the programs you are thinking of applying to, I dont want to be too harsh but I dont see any way of getting into them (at least right now) with your current GPA. Think of it like this, why would they accept you over someone that has an equivalent (maybe slightly less, maybe slight more) years of work experience but someone who has a much higher GPA. You also have to take into account that the average GPA of someone admitted is a 3.6/3.7 so there is a huge deficit there. You would be better served either a) Working for a few more years as well as doing a graduate certificate and then applying or Do a graduate certificate and the apply to more realistic (2nd tier I guess) schools. The more years of work experience that you have when you apply, the less your UGPA matters, hence my advice to work more and then apply. Hope this helped!

Thank you for your advice! As you can see I genuinely have no idea how to navigate the Phd admissions, which is weird considering I knew a lot about undergrad and MPP admissions but for me Phd ones are so different. I only recently started thinking about this so obviously don't know too much about it. Will be talking with some of my professors who did Poli Sci and trying to see what advice they can offer up. It is good though that this is not as numbers based. And yeah will do the best I can to raise the GGPA, although I personally dont see it going above a 3.8 (average in my program as far as I am aware is 3.3/3.4, which gotta say is much higher than the average GPA of 3.0 at my undergrad). One question, would signaling (I assume there is an area where you can identify this on the application) that you don't need funding help with admissions at all? Also, how would being fluent in two other languages help (if at all, one of them is Russian)? Anyway will start trying to figure out what area I want to focus in by getting some advice from professors, but thank you so much for your comments!

Hello guys. I am currently in my first year of my MPP and am strongly considering doing a Phd in Political Science (also considering one in Economics but frankly don't have the math preparation). I was wondering if you guys could provide some insight on this topic (I am planning on applying in Dec 2015). Here are my stats, they are not too impressive so would like to know what I could improve and how. Undergrad Degree+GPA: Bachelor of Commerce (top 3 school in Canada) with a GPA of 3.5 (however my last semester marks where quite underwhelming, completely my fault since had I gotten where I wanted and got quite lazy) Graduate Degree+GPA: Master of Public Policy (Georgetown), sitting at a 3.7 right now, hoping I can maintain/increase this. GRE: Q160/V160/AW5, will retake to try and get the score up to 167. Research Experience: One year of research, however it was business related research (I was the RA gathering data). Will start working on a Thesis soon. Teaching Experience: Was a TA for 3 semesters (same course), did a bit of teaching but most of it entailed meeting with students and grading assignment/exams. Publications: None to speak of Languages: Dont know if this is too important, but fluent in 3 languages. Research Interest: I would like to focus my research and studies in the ex-USSR countries. Courses: Intro+Intermediate Macro/Micro, Public Finance, Differential Calculus, Integral, Quantitative Methods 1 and 2 (3 by the time I apply), Int'l Trade, Economics course on China and USSR (and the transition of the economy), and a ton of Business (mainly Finance) courses. LOR: Have some good ones from undergrad and am working on creating relations with other professors. Funding Needed?: Not for the first year and a half. Anyway, until graduate school I had not taken any Poli Sci courses, but now that I am doing my MPP I am finding them quite interesting and refreshing (a far cry from the boredom of business courses). I feel like this could hurt me quite a lot during the admissions process. Furthermore, my relatively low (compared to the applicants to the top schools) UGPA could also hurt me, but cant really do anything about that other than excelling in my current program to try and mitigate them. I am doing the best I can to try and get a 3.7/3.8 GPA in graduate school, but not sure if that woud adequately mitigate it since graduate school GPA's are quite inflated. Schools I am looking at (hard to find exact fit with my interest): UBC, UofT, Queens University, Georgetown, Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, UPenn. Could any please provide me with some insight in terms of what I could do to improve my chances? Are my chances really low as of now considering the lower UGPA and a lack of published papers (and well research experience overall?). Thank you!

Hate to be the guy who bumps,but bump! Would greatly appreciate some insight from you guys who have a lot of experience in this area.

@martinet25: I do not know that much about the program at SAIS, so please take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I would assume that the two schools are very comparable both in terms of the quality of the professors, the small class sizes, and the networking opportunities provided. Given that both SAIS and MSPP are in DC, you will, theoretically, have a similar opportunity to network with WB/IFC employees, as well as others. What you should, however, take into account though is, at least from what I understand SAIS is the only (or one of the only) JHU departments that are located in DC, the rest being in Baltimore. While MSPP is located in the Georgetown campus. What this could mean for you, is that you get to go to networking sessions and employer information sessions not only organized by MSPP, but also ones organized by MSFS, McDonough (MBA), and others (as well as the stuff organized for the undergrads). This in theory should give you a larger networking opportunity than at SAIS. A lot of our networking stuff is organized in tandem with the career office at SFS and MSPP. In terms of the money, really it depends on your ability to pay, and how much that $15k means to you (is it $15k over 2 years, or $15k extra a year?). In my book, both are excellent programs and you can't go wrong with either one. If you go the SAIS route, you will have a more structured IDEV program, since well thats what you are in for. On the other hand at MSPP you will get to choose what course you want to take (electives) that are related to IDEV. So this could provide a bit more flexibility. It is completely up to you what you prefer (structure vs flexibility). Keep in mind that in your first year at MSPP you realistically can take 2 electives. One per term, since the other three courses are required courses. However some people defer one of their required courses to 2nd year in order to take an extra elective (but I would not do this, but thats just me). Generally the course that gets deferred is public policy process. You can also take classes SFS, MBA and other faculties as well so that makes it quite flexible as well. In terms of the money, if its $15k over 2 years, imo that is not a large amount and you should not make your decision based on money in that case. However if its $15k per year than that changes things a bit. What I would recommend is that you look at the employment reports, see how the two schools (or in SAIS's case the specific program) places the graduates at top jobs. Also look at the "intangibles", such as location (I know both are in DC, but look at where in DC), campus, and etc. Also, think about which one may have a better name recognition in India (so JHU vs GU), important in case you want to go back. Like I stated I think both are very good choices, you cant go wrong with either one. Look through the courses offered at both, maybe contact some students at both. MSPP Employment Report: http://mspp.georgetown.edu/career/ SAIS Employment: http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes Wish I could be more of help on the SAIS end of things, but hope this helped you a bit!

I decided to go with Georgetown, and I am very happy with my decision. I will just go through some of the pro's and con's (every program will have its con's) and then try and address your specific concerns. Pros: The class sizes are very small, other than one class where I had 40 people in it, the other classes were 20 people or less. This means that one has a lot of access to their professor and can more easily get to know them. The professors are also very accessible, they of course have office hours, but if you cant make them you can also schedule a different time, and they are very accomodating with that. I had one professor last term who would even come to campus on a weekend if we had a paper due to help students out. In terms of the class profile overall, we have approximately 130 students who enter the MPP program, and around 17-19 people who enter the MIDP program. (all the statistics, including average age, years of work experience, GRE, GPA are on the website if you want to check it out.) In terms of how MSPP compares to Wagner, the class of 2009 at Wagner ( this is the only data I could find), Wagner had 800-900 people in the program across the two years. This could (although you have to ask an NYU Wagner student) impact the class sizes by making them larger. It is more quant focused than NYU. We have to take Intermediate Micro, Public Finance, and three Quantitative Methods classes. For me this is a pro since the Quant focus gives one a more tangible skill. We use software called STATA to run analysis. So we have something every week called STATA recitation where a TA (2nd year student) teaches us the basic (and later on) a bit more advanced functions of the program. Being in DC, you can intern in the fall and spring while going to school. They are fairly easy to get as well since the competition for those spots is much lower in the Fall/Spring than in the Summer (in the summer you would be competing against everyone). So you can get experience, potentially make money (although a lot of internships in DC are unpaid), and make connections. However if you are an Int'l student, you will not be allowed to work (other than for a select few organizations, such as IMF, WB, etc) in your first two terms (US law). As for electives, a good amount of choices. You can also easily take electives in other departments (I personally know its easy to take MSFS and MBA electives, you will get in as long as there is space left) I am sure this would be the case at Wagner as well, but a very diverse group of smart and interesting classmates. Very sociable as well. Cons: The Quant focus. My issue is that MSPP admits people who have next to no background either in Stats or Econ. I have no issue with this, since I understand different people focused on different things in their life. However, I feel the best thing for them, would have been a separate class/section where everyone with a weaker background is there, so that they can be more effectively helped. What Georgetown does now is it lumps everyone together, and the issue with that (at least imo) is that people who dont have a background in these topics dont benefit as much, and the people who do have a background also dont benefit as much, since professors have to find a middle ground (in terms of teaching) between the two. But not that big of a con since this probably happens in other programs as well, but just a heads up. Could be a Con for you (its not for me), but the MSPP building (old north) is too small.I love the building, all of the students get together there, eat/study, all the professors office's are there. However, we do not have any classes there since well frankly the building is not big enough for that. So all the classes are held either in Healey, McGuire, Walsh and etc. Lastly (and this applies to Georgetown rather than the program itself), pre-registration. Potentially the dumbest most infuriating form of registering for classes. So you first selective a primary schedule (you can also rank classes within each schedule) and an alternate schedule, and then you register them by some date (the date is the same for everyone). Then its pretty much a lottery, the system goes through your choices, looks at how you ranked classes, and if there is space left, gives you the class. At MSPP you can focus both on domestic and international policy. We have an MIDP program that is primary focused on international development, while the MPP you have more leeway. So you can cater the MPP to focus in IDEV by catering the electives towards that end. For example, for the required course policy process management we have two choices, a domestic version, or an international version. Since this is a US institution, there is a heavy focus on domestic policy as well. Domestic policy is not my area so cant help you much there, but I do know we have a strong focus there as well. Anyway, hope this kind of helped. I apologize for the long reply but lol sadly I cant help it. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Hello everyone! I am thinking of applying to Phd Economics programs this coming December, and would ideally like to start a program in 2015. I have done some reading on this, but have seen some, I guess "conflicting views" and I would like to clarify that, as well as get an assessment of my chances in getting into a program. So a bit about me, I did my undergrad in Canada in Commerce (Finance specialization) and now am doing a Master of Public Policy at Georgetown. However, I do not know if my math preparation will be strong enough by the time I apply. In my undergrad I took: Calc I, Calc II, Business Stats, Discrete Math (CS course but was largely based around boolean logic and Discrete Math), and a ton (6-8) of econ courses (Including Intro to Micro, Intro to Macro, International Trade, Intermediate Macro, and etc). In Graduate School, by the time I apply will have taken (Intermediate Micro, Public Finance, and Quantitative Methods 1, 2 and 3, by Quantitative Methods I mean 1 was pretty much probability and statistics, so z-score, t-test, etc, Quant 2 is Regressions and we use Stata all the time, Quant 3, dont know what it will entail yet). Anyway, would I need to take anymore math courses or do you think this is enough to get me through admissions? Because I can if need be, but would rather not since there are so many other courses I am interested in. The second I had was related to the research proposal. I have heard it both ways, meaning some people saying be more open ended while other saying be very specific. Would like to have some clarification on this. Next thing (and I realize this is too early to say), but what would you say my chances would be in getting into such a program? My undergrad GPA was a 3.5x and right now I am sitting at a 3.8 for my Master's (granted Masters GPA's are fairly inflated), and I have a GRE score (am planning on retaking it) of Q160, V160, AW 5, would like to get something close to 168 for Quant). Worked for a year as a Research Assistant. Planning on applying to: UofT, UBC, Queens University, Columbia, Carnegie Mellon, UMich, UNC-CH, and Duke. Thank you very much for your help!

You are correct, an MPP is a bit more broad, in terms of the career choices that you will have when compared to an MSFS. However, by no means does that mean an MSFS degree is limiting, especially from a place such as GU that has such a well established and reputable program. An MPP is more quant heavy. We have to take 3 Quant courses (statistics) and 2 econ courses (Intermediate Micro and Public Finance). In terms of our stats courses we are also taught how to use Stata. I believe in MSFS you need to take only one Stats course, but not sure about their econ (I know that they have to take International Trade). If you want to do International Development work, both programs have an International Development track. In MSPP the program is called MIDP (it is fairly new), but so far it seems very similar to an MPP in terms of the courses they take (in 1st year), except that rather than Public Policy Process they take an Economic Development course (in 1st term), and their econ courses (in 1st term) seem to use more ID examples. As for the MSFS ID program, dont know much about it so you would have to take a look at it on your own. You could also do a dual degree, so MSFS/MPP. You will get the two degrees in three years time, so you should check out if that interests you.

I believe that over time the reputation and the quality of the program will further increase. The $100M that the school got will be used to hire more professors, provide more scholarships, and over time implement a Phd program and maybe even have something for the undergrads. I would say that the program is already great. The professors are very friendly, accessible, and from the ones that I have had so far, are very good at teaching the subject. The program is, as you may know, is fairly quant heavy. So have to take 3 stats courses and 2 micro courses. The program is fairly small as well (around 150 people per year). One thing I will say though, is forget about the whole prestige thing, especially when it comes to Public Policy programs. The prestige factor is important for MBA and Law, but not as important for policy programs. I would still encourage you to apply for more programs and see where else you can get in, and more importantly where you can end up getting money. You could also try and use future offers (if you for example do decide to attend GU) as leverage in order to get more funding from GU. But, you cant go wrong with GU. Being in DC will allow you to have a part-time internship while you are attending school (granted as International students we are not allowed to work for most companies other than places such as the World Bank until the summer, thats due to US laws). Good luck!

The best advice that I can give you from my own experience, is make sure that your overall application is great. Dont get caught up in parts of it (such as maybe a lower GPA, since really not much you can do about it other than take some grad level classes), or a GRE score. A GRE score, from what I know is not something that will get you in, meaning you do not need to have a very high score, you just need a fairly good score (so I'd say Q160/V160, although someone could chime in more on this). Make sure that you follow the personal statement guidelines, and make sure that you provide the admissions committee with a clear idea on as to why you want to do an MPA, and what you career goals are. If you can, try and intertwine it with a personal story (what you have been through and all). Lastly, recommendations are key. I was not the best applicant (since I was straight out of undergrad) but I made sure my personal statement reflected my goals and my reason for MPA/MPP at that point in time, and I made sure that I asked for rec's from professors that knew me really well and whom I had worked for/with one on one. So ensure that the people you ask know you and your capabilities fairly well, and are willing to write you a glowing (but accurate/descriptive rec). As for what universities you could look at., the list you have so far seems fairly balanced (from the point of view of the whole reach, target, safety thing). I would advice you to add NYU Wagner because they have a fairly good MPA program in not for profit management. Furthermore, I suggest you look into a few more programs, that are, well for a lack of a better word "top programs". Look into SIPA (it is a big program but well recognized), Princeton WWS (if you get in, could get fully funded, but very competitive), and HKS MPA/MPP. If you want international work SAIS would be good, however if I m not mistaken they are more policy and int'l development focused. Hope this helped, and good luck!

Yeah howie is right. For example at NYU Wagner, if one does not meet the work experience requirement they can still get in, they just have to do like 300 hours of relevant work before the 2nd year (so pretty much an internship). I am sure there are other schools that may have a similar requirement. Although NYU is the only one I know of.

You do not necessarily need to have 3-5 years (If i am not mistaken you are recommended to have 2-3 years). Still you could get in straight out of undergrad (or in your case slightly afterwards), if you have a strong resume, good grades (3.8 is very impressive), good LOR's, and good SOP (and if you do decently on your GRE, dont think GRE is that huge of a factor, do aim for Q160 V160 though). In terms of schools I would advice you too look into SAIS, SIPA, Fletcher and HKS as well. Although Columbia (from my own experience) are relatively strict on the work experience requirement.

I am from one of the Canadian B. Schools as well (Rotman/Sauder/Desautel), and I applied to MPA/MPP schools this year. In terms of work experience, it is recommended, but from my personal experience, not necessarily required. I applied straight out of undergrad (in fact when I was applying I was in my 2nd term of 4th year) and got into 3 schools (rejected by 2). So no I don't think you need to necessarily have the 2-3 years. I did however intern every single summer, I was very involved, so was an executive at clubs, and worked for the school as well in two different positions, so its not like I went in with absolutely no experience. But I feel like you could try and apply now (well in the upcoming cycle) and see what happens. The key thing is for you to have a clear idea why you want to do an MPA/MPP. I personally did (hell I knew I wanted to do an MPP while I was still in HS), but in your SOP you have to make it clear on as to why you want to pursue an MPA, and why in that school (but more importantly, imo, why an MPA). You need to have strong references (preferably professors you have worked with/for as well as maybe your boss at your current firm) In terms of your grades, A- is good. However your C's will be seen because you have to send your transcript from all schools, so I think you will have to send a transcript from the school that you did your exchange in. However this should not be a huge problem. If you apply w/ work experience, you grades wont matter as much (a 3.5+ GPA would be preferred of course) because of the work experience that you have. However, the grades will matter if you are applying with little/no work experience. Also looking at just prestige for MPA schools is not the best idea. This is not an MBA program where prestige matters. You have to look at how the program fits with your interests (whatever those interests may be). As for the Canadian government question, of course they will. You have a BCOM (I assume from Canada) and if you go to a top institution in the US/UK for policy work, then you will get hired. Especially since in terms of MPA/MPP type of degrees, there are only 2-3 decent schools in Canada for it (I believe UofT, Queens, and UOttawa), and even then those 3 cant compare to their US counterparts too much.

I do not know too much about those lower tier schools so I cant really comment on them, but I'll give you a more general opinion on your chances and what you may be able to do in order to improve your chances. So I'll start of by saying that when I was applying to grad schools I was applying straight out of undergrad (I was still in my 4th year when I applied). When I was going through forums and doing research, the general idea I got was that one had a very low chance of getting into a school (at least the ones I was looking at) without work experience (granted I had done internships and volunteering, but if you look at forums as well as the admission websites of the schools they generally say that 2-3 years of work experience is recommended/required), unless if that person had amazing grades (so I am guessing 3.7+) and well my GPA was a 3.5 plus I had failed one course. Anyway I was going into it extremely discouraged and frankly thought I wouldn't get in anywhere, but that was not the case. The point I am trying to make is that you should not get discouraged and you should still try and apply to both top schools and lower tier schools, nothing wrong with applying, better than regretting not applying somewhere. That being said, your GPA is low, and I do understand partying can affect grades badly, especially when you are not motivated at a certain school and well partying is fun (hell I would know, Im a frat guy). If you show an upward trend then the ADCOM may look more positively towards your grades. However, you need to ensure that you get very good grades from now on (getting good grades is all about putting the work in imo), so as long as you go to class and study and well put the work in, you will be able to get good grades. With a GPA below 3.0 it will be a challenge, especially if you lack work experience. A lot of schools require a minimum of 3.0, however of course they may make exceptions (if you say have great work experience, or amazing GRE's and etc), but you really have to work hard to get to that 3.0. Also, try and get involved at your University, so try and join (by join I mean by an executive) of various student run organizations. Furthermore, if you can, try and get a job as a research assistant, I firmly believe that graduate schools like that, as well as maybe even a teaching assistant. Through doing these things (RA, TA) you should be able to get great recommendations (much better than asking some prof whose class you took and who may know you a bit, but not enough to write you a truly great rec). In terms of GRE, aim for 160Q and 160V, those should be enough in your case imo (someone please correct me if I am mistaken). Lastly work experience, try and intern somewhere (in my own personal experience it does not have to be related to public policy work or what you want to do, although of course it would be better if it is). Hope this helps, and good luck!

Yeah sorry, I was referring to NYU as a whole. I have heard the same thing that you said from other's about Wagner, meaning that it is a pretty close knit community, I was looking at course schedules and some of NYU's (many) are like 3 hour courses offered once a week (rather than the 2-3 times I am used to/would prefer). Not too sure how I feel about that, especially since GPPI seems to have a more frequent course thing (where course are given 2-3 times a week, rather than just once).