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papelpicado

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  • Gender
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  • Location
    On the Shores of Lake Michigan
  • Application Season
    2013 Fall
  • Program
    MAPH

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  1. As a 2014 MAPH grad, I can say that how much the professors "care about you" depends entirely on which profs you choose to work with, what your project is, and how much you seek out their advice. As for the notion that they "care more" about PhD students: totally bogus for the most part. I also will say that getting a job in any museum or spot in a top PhD program is not guaranteed no matter where you go to school. That said, I am currently working in a museum on a project which lined up very nicely with my thesis in a completely different part of the country, which I got entirely due to the expertise I developed working on my thesis. A friend of mine is working in a very established nonprofit art center in Chicago, another is curating contemporary art in Montreal. Two MAPH students from past years are PhD students at the UofC. So we do end up in good places! The money question is intensely personal and pretty emotional and tied up in all sorts of issues about self worth, reputation, and anxiety about the future. That's a question only one person can answer.
  2. m-ttl - to your questions about language and internships: 1. We typically don't do language during MAPH. It's easy enough to study on your own if you can (I can read and translate French pretty well, but have never taken it in a formal class), and most PhD programs require you to have translation proficiency by a certain point in the program, not right off the bat. We typically focus on classes in our field (art history, philosophy, cultural policy, what have you) instead of doing languages. Most art history concentrators seem to come into MAPH with at least one language down already - I had undergrad coursework in Italian and German, and a pretty solid grounding in Spanish which I've improved through doing research for my thesis in Spanish. As I understand, most tests for AH language requirements focus on translation - god help me if I tried to speak German! (Maybe I'll take some classes at the Goethe Institut at some point...) But there is also nothing stopping you from signing up for language classes as part of your MAPH coursework. (Especially if you're looking for some really esoteric language that you can't easily find at your local community college - for example, we have a faculty member who specializes in Yucatec Maya which could be useful if you're interested in being a pre-Columbianist). 2. We also typically do not do internships during the program as we focus on our coursework. Many students, however, have work-study jobs in parts of the UofC or its affiliated institutions like the Oriental Institute, the Smart Museum, the Arts Incubator, the Hyde Park Art Center, and the University of Chicago press. Most students I know have work-study jobs and they all do super interesting things. So there are opportunities for students to gain work experience in the program, but most people don't do internships at outside institutions during the program. That said, there's nothing that's going to stop you from doing an internship at the Art Institute or the MCA if you want, as far as I know, so if you're really driven to do that, you can.
  3. If you're really sincere about finding out more about Chicago or MAPH - please PM me, with any sort of question. I feel like this conversation has turned so negative (gradcafe at its true form) that this rehashing of points is really not productive. I really don't have anything else to say about the whole unfunded MA conversation which has happened so many times on the Art History / Humanities forums which people clearly feel quite strongly about in totally legitimate ways. If you're coming for visit days in April, let me know, I look forward to meeting you!
  4. I should also mention - I didn't know when I was in undergrad that I wanted to go to grad school. My grad school intentions at that time were that I *might* get an MFA in printmaking, maybe, if I felt like I needed it, eventually. I worked for three years as a high school teacher, got to teach Art History, spent a lot of time reflecting on what I wanted to do with myself, decided that working with art history was what I wanted to do with my life, and decided I would apply for grad school. It takes some people a while to figure out what they want to do. This is OK. This is healthy. The professors I consulted for my application all seemed to think that I stood a decent chance - now, I question their judgment or their honesty, but how could I know then? So I didn't take a formal methods class. (I'm really curious - what did you major in that it is required for if not art history? And are we talking about specifically art-historical methods, or broader methods of criticism? I feel like some of the types of criticism we do in art history are so specific to the discipline). As for the rest of your points, m-ttl, I think Swagato just did an excellent job of responding to your argument so I'm not going to add to the contestation. I hope this thread can go back to its original programming as a place where interested students can get first hand information and demystification about MAPH instead of re-reading the same tired evangelization of recycled rumors from people who have moral objections and no particular knowledge about the program itself.
  5. m-ttl, I don't really understand why you seem to have such a problem with people doing programs which work for them, to be completely frank. I'm sure you personally are an incredible, exceptional scholar - but for those of use who aren't aware how far we have to go to be at your level, a program like MAPH is also helpful. It's also helpful in building humility and the ability to see from others' points of view without necessarily agreeing with them. Also, it should be reiterated - neither Swagato nor I were art history majors in undergrad. I took a bunch of coursework, but of course most of the people who applied in my pool had more. And the stuff I "should have already learned" - I'm sorry, this just came off as VERY rude and condescending. Like many people in this world, my undergraduate concentration was not in art history - so why would I have taken a methods class if it wasn't required? And considering the actual support which I have received from MAPH which I *know* I would not have received had I gone to the closest state school in California for a masters which would have qualified as "affordable," I do not feel at all like I was taken advantage of. In short, I don't understand your insistence on promulgating your negative views of a program with which you are not particularly familiar. I do not think that the MAPH model will become the norm, I understand your paranoia of paid programs undercutting the availability of less expensive programs, but honestly I don't think it's such a threat to the field or students as you seem to sense it will be. Anyway, thanks for contributing to the negative noise from a skeptical outsiders' point of view. It was ungrounded opinions like yours which made me almost NOT choose to go to MAPH, and to question my decision heavily even after arriving until it hit me that what I had done, indeed, was a good choice for me and that I was reaping the benefits. It was also what prompted me to want to shift the conversation towards a qualitative description of the program instead of a rehashing of the cons. Not everyone can be so incredibly prepared as you seem to be! It's up to each person to decide whether an individual grad program is worth the time and money they will invest in it. (I also would like to point out that one year of MAPH, including living expenses, would actually be CHEAPER than a two year MA program at many private institutions even where you only have to pay tuition for the first year, but are responsible for your living expenses for both years. And then that year after MAPH you can work in the world and actually make money!) I would really appreciate it if GradCafe could be a space of understanding, openness, and collegiality, rather than aggressive sniping, rainbow-pissing, and insinuations of inferiority. I had a feeling that I was opening myself up to this as soon as I posted - even though everyone knows, on GradCafe, haters gonna hate And critical challenges do help you articulate your argument better
  6. In one word: no. For me, the most important aspect was the opportunity for intellectual growth that coming to the University of Chicago would give me. And if you think it sounds like I'm drinking the UofC's maroon Kool-Aid here, let me tell you: I was so deeply skeptical when I got here that it would be anything nearly as rigorous as they said it would be, that my socks were knocked off my feet by how incredibly smart everyone is here - and I don't just mean that they know things, but there is a whole different way of critical thinking that goes on here that is a mile deeper than anything I was exposed to even at an undergraduate institution ranked only a few spots below the UofC (not that those rankings mean a whole lot anyway). I'm absolutely certain that most "cheaper" options do not provide this. Naturally I'd rather that I didn't have to pay quite so much for it, but the idea that simply because you have to pay for it means that somehow it isn't worth it is deeply problematic. Just because you personally feel that it is not feasible for you, does not mean that it is not a solid option for others, and I hope that people reading this will be able to relate my narrative and subjective experience to their own, and weigh how well the two mesh when thinking about attending MAPH. These "cheaper" options are also great options especially if you want a traditionally strict art-historical training instead of a rigorous interdisciplinary intellectual atmosphere. If your work as a scholar focuses on more traditional ways of doing art history - like, for instance, pure iconography, formal analysis, and biographical interpretation - there might be better fits than the UofC. I would also say to anyone applying that knowing your methodology of choice is a good idea - I didn't when I applied! Find professors who work with your methodology. If you've done all this and you know methodologically who you would work well with, great, you might be more prepared to enter a PhD program than I was. But had I not done MAPH, I would never have known that I needed to know this. MAPH isn't just about expanding your background of coursework, it's about changing the way you think about scholarship and how you work as a scholar. My advice to people who haven't applied yet: do include some MA programs in your portfolio, even if you think you are prepared for a PhD, because you may not be, and you may not know it. Do your own research on what program you think is the best fit for you. If you really want to become better at understanding and articulating and destabilizing complex arguments, MAPH is a great place. Personally, I do not know if I'm going on to do a PhD yet, because of the enormous time commitment and the complete possibility of doing several of the things I want to do with myself without one - doing research, writing books, working in a museum. Before MAPH, I was totally convinced, but now I'm aware of other options, I am content where I am for now I'll move on when I need to. Don't feel pressured (even internally) to jump in to a PhD just because it seems like the next logical step. Naturally, Swagato's points about the program are very valid. Thanks as always!
  7. Oh hello, gradcafe! I've never posted anything, as far as I can remember, to this maelstrom of angst, nailbiting, and sniping, mostly because I'm not much of an angster, nailbiter (nvm I bite my nails like crazy) and I'm definitely not a sniper. But I did want to contribute a narrative of my own graduate school journey to those of you out there you may find parallels or echoes with your own situation currently, if it be of any help to you. I'm currently a MAPH student and I love it. Let me describe to you how I got here. I applied to five PhD programs last year, all Ivy League/University of California. Then something shocking happened: I got rejected from all of them. Except for a weird glimmer of hope that needled me and inspired resentment: an unfunded acceptance into the University of Chicago's MAPH program. Oh, where did I go wrong? I had an excellent GPA, had killed all of my art history classes in undergrad, and taught AP Art History to high schoolers for two years. I had attended an incredibly well ranked university, and graduated Magna Cum Laude. Surely I was ultimately qualified as anyone to be admitted? Well - no. I had been a printmaking/costume design major / art history minor in undergrad. I had no graduate degree. And no museum experience. None of these things are necessarily bars to being admitted to a PhD program, but combined with whatever the hell I wrote in my LOI, etc, it didn't cut it. So I went to visit Chicago for prospective student days. I returned still skeptical of the program and what it would be for me. This is where the scary thing hit me: you cannot predict your own experience based on others'. So I thought, what the hell, I am not happy where I am, I might as well go. This is where you'll probably ask me about finances. I'm going to leave that discussion at this: I decided that the financial risk would be worth it. Obviously it's a huge risk. The amount of money that MAPH costs could buy you a nice parcel of land somewhere in Oregon and the supplies to build a yurt and maybe a goat or two. I thought about doing that. It was really appealing. Something else sort of troubling happened when I was deciding whether or not to go to MAPH. I had wanted to specialize (like everyone and their mom) in modern and contemporary art. I found out during campus days that my POI was going to be on leave 2/3 quarters of the year. Between campus days and the start of the school year, the other modcon professor I was interested in working with also left. But I was also interested in Latin American art (precolumbian, colonial, modern, contemporary - the whole gamut) but had no background in it. There is a really wonderful Latin Americanist on the faculty, and I decided perhaps I could work with her, maybe. So I came to MAPH in September, skeptical and afraid. Most of the people in the program, it seemed, were there for English, Creative Writing, or Philosophy - about 1/9 of us are there for art history (or cultural policy). But I discovered something amazing - many people actually applied *directly to MAPH*, drawn by the program's reputation for sharpening writing and analytical thinking. At first I scoffed at them. Now I scoff at me. As soon as I started my art history coursework, I realized that I had made the right choice for me. For someone who loves art history and can be inspired academically by many different subfields, coming to the University of Chicago and having the ability to take courses with these amazing professors while a very supportive program works with you at every step of the way to help you make the most informed decisions about what to do with your life was about the best thing I could do, I believe. Two-thirds of the way through MAPH, I have a much better idea of how to structure an argument, a much better idea of the different possibilities for careers in art history, and a much better understanding of how graduate school works. I have many friends in the PhD program who I love, and I can see from being in classes with them how unprepared I was to think at the level demanded by the University of Chicago. I'm working towards that level. I also learned - in case this wasn't common knowledge to many here - that having an MA is incredibly helpful if not required for getting into a PhD program. Obviously many people go straight in with a BA, but especially if your BA isn't in Art History it might be really difficult to get in. Whether this almost-necessity of a MA is a function of how qualified candidates actually are or is indicative of the larger over-credentialing and subsequent credential inflation in art history particularly is uncertain, but especially at the Ivy League level it seems to be a thing. Applying to PhDs, i was convinced that I wanted to be either a professor or a museum curator. Mostly a professor. Now I'm much more conscious of the difficulties of the field (somehow hearing about the horrors of the job market from my successful professor was much more impactful than reading the horror stories on the Chronicle of Higher Ed.), as well as the possibilities that are open to people with Master's degrees. I'm also much more familiar with things like paper workshops, job talks, departmental politics and tenure negotiations than I was before. Ultimately, though I do not yet have a job lined up for after I graduate (I've been applying to various opportunities, many of which have actually been forwarded to me by people at the University of Chicago, not that I'm not doing my own independent hunting), I feel like I have already benefitted very much from my experience in MAPH. And just so you know - neither I, nor other users (as far as I know) are being paid by the program to promote it!!! (Swagato - PM me if you know differently - I'd love some cash right now ) We just believe in it so firmly that we feel compelled to testify. And as for the argument about the money, is it worth it, etc - so many people say that getting an education in the humanities is not an effective way to get a job. Do you really take those people seriously if you're applying for PhD programs in art history? No. If you know you can make it in the end, and think that whatever you're studying will not only launch you into a career in the field of your choice, but will also give you a sharper mind and develop skills in a way which you could not do on your own, then making the choice to follow that path seems like a just fine decision. It did to me, and I'm happy. As with anything, you get out of it what you put in to it. So! If you've recently been accepted to MAPH, or if you are thinking about applying in the future, I hope this was helpful. If there are any other questions I can answer, I'd be glad to, just PM me. And if you're coming for campus days, I'll see you there and I'd be more than happy to talk to you! I love art history people. papelpicado
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