waytooold

I am still reeling from my straight rejections last year for PhD programs. The things working against me are my age (50 ish) my lack of quantitative research experience (but published in the non academic world and tons of qualitative experience) and a complete lack of mathematical dexterity. I am now thinking differently -- I had been applying to PhD programs in Org Behavior, now I think I need to get a second Masters, maybe in org behavior or in a field like sociology or anthropology. The catch is, I need money. Lots of money. So, here is my deal: I have an 800 V, 6AW and...hold on....a 590 quant. What kinds of programs don't really look at quant, or view the verbal score as an indicator of ability? This probably sounds foolish, but I really don't want to put as much effort into apps as I did last year and find myself out the time, money and emotion. Anyone's thoughts would be most welcome.

Hey folks, thanks for the kind words, but I'm really old for this game...not the "old" that some thirty year olds say. My youngest is finishing up law school, I am over 50 -- well, you get it. This process has sucked up my hopes and dreams for 7 months, time I won't get back -- and I just can't afford to pile my efforts into something with such a low probability of any positive return. But...I have two published books, speak nationally, command awesome fees to consult and facilitate...I won't be sitting in some hovel turning gray. In fact, I might just see some of you along the way. Best of luck.

Thought I'd pop in and say goodbye. Not sure what derailed me so badly, except perhaps a bit of naivete about the poor quant score, my age and my time away from academia. I am waitlisted at my first choice, but I'd say my odds are very, very poor, with two spots to fill and three people in front of me. Got rejected by UC today and am awaiting one more from a school that never so much as acknowledged my application, no less interviewed me...so I'm out. Given my age, this was kind of my last shot to get into a PhD program, so I'm looking out to see what my next step is. Best of luck to all of you. It's been a long, strange journey.

I feel your pain. I really thought 20 years of applied work, two books, national speaking and deep knowledge would get me somewhere, but what I got was "you really don't want to do this, do you?" Ummmm....did you read my SOP? Do you think I sat for the GRE after no math for twenty years for FUN? My favorite was "Well, your verbal score would increase our mean by a significant amount, but your age would REALLY increase our mean." So I have a waitlist, a reject, an implied reject and waiting on two more schools I have heard not a peep from, so unlikely to be accepts. Oh well, at least I have not yet closed down my consulting practice.

After testing, writing, gathering LOR's from professors who were kind enough to look at twenty year old transcripts, stamping, mailing, notarizing and confirming, I find the application process sorely wanting. I don't think any of the items below are unreasonable, and I would more than love to hear an institution argue against such things being the simplest of civil society behavior and more than manageable, yet in my experience thus far, these things are sadly rare. 1. Applications should be acknowledged by e-mail or letter. 2. Inquiries as to whether the application is complete should be responded to before the application deadline, unless program has posted a statement that no news= a complete application, and means it. In particular, programs that state that students are responsible for inquiring as to the completeness of their application should have sufficient resources to respond to such inquiries prior to the deadline. 3. If the program assures people they will receive some sort of notification by X date, this should be true. 4. Programs should post or communicate status of the application process 60 days after the deadline, with weekly updates. What would you add, keeping it reasonable and realistic?

I appreciate the link and the largely civil discussion. Just a comment that since Bakke, the administration of affirmative action in University admissions is not a matter of all or nothing-- it recognizes a variety of factors and weights. The goal of diversifying the academy, which at this time in society cannot rely ENTIRELY on merit is worthy. The individual consequence that you or I might be displaced by an equally qualified person who is give a bit of advantage due to identity is, as an earlier poster said, probably the same feeling others have heard when we have gotten the edge due to privilege or majority status. Creating an equal society can't always make the majority happy.

More than a shot..a proven track record and a need to avenge for the women's result! ...someone who lives in a city where 40 year old men still have their high school hockey sticks hanging in their home.

Midwest -- when lurking on TM I assumed you were a flyover land compatriot! Where are you located?

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/03/30/phd We're in a year with record numbers of apps and shrinking opportunities.

Sigh. Choices are nice. I'm having a silly little why-did-I-apply-to-schools-notifying-in-March pity party here....now that it's out of my system...... I can hardly imagine committing to 4 or more years in intense relationships and focused work someplace without visiting. "Feel,""Fit" and "Culture" are ephemeral in some ways, and require the experience of being there, IMHO. I'd find a way to spend even a half day anyplace I was considering.

double post, sorry

Deep cleansing breaths, everyone.

May I ask the schools you are looking at? PM me if you are comfortable. Our names and interests seem to overlap:)

Schools make these offers to preserve a high yield rate and maintain numbers that will preserve their selectivity.

I submitted all of my apps in November. NOVEMBER!!!! No news yet, but no one has heard from any of my programs, and most have now said notification in March. Too much food, wine and wasted internet time. Even knowing there won't be news for two more weeks does not stop me from checking, and checking, and checking. Sigh. ETA -- I find it comforting to read and re-read my SOP's and confirm I put my best effort out there.

I would be business casual. Without making assumptions about your gender, here is what I'd recommend: Male, wear Khakis or Cords with a button down shirt, but not a dress shirt. Wear comfortable but not beaten up shoes. For a woman, black pants, long sleeved t-shirt with a sweater over or casual blazer over, and scarf to dress it up. Shed the top layer if you're working really hard. That's my advice, FWIW.

I must admit, there is some awful joke that wants to be made by this non-scientist. Something on the order of "admissions ain't rocket science..." but I will refrain

Very, very impressive. Congratulations on your results. I am applying to two HR/OD programs and three Business/Management PhD programs, none overlapping with yours, except Illinois, and there I applied to HR/LR, not biz.

I am interested in how often there are "direct acceptances," from ad comm to notification. Let's hear about your experiences. I need something to do for the next 30 days while I'm waiting, like, for instance, assuming silence does not mean condemnation to the "no" pile.

My new theory, having had so many calls and e-mails go unanswered is that they are just getting us ready for the incivility and non professionalism of life in the academy.

I'm not sure what compels me to enter these toxic waters, but the statement above is maddeningly skewed. First of all, the 90th percentile in verbal requires a far, far, far lower raw score overall than the analytical...why? Because the greater proportion of those taking the GRE are people working in the sciences and math....thus to perform very well in that population on the analytical requires a VERY high raw score (let's for arguments sake say you need a 9/10), while a comparatively low score (lets say 6/10) puts you in the 90th verbally. As far as those of us you imply don't put in the effort...like me, who scored in the 99th percentile verbally but poorly in the quantitative? I put in plenty of effort, and my algebra skills are decent, but I do not know geometry and have not used anything but simple arithmetic in over 20 years. The first time I took it I got 300, and doubled my score in the 6 weeks I prepped. Had I gotten the raw score on my verbal that I did on my math, it would put me in the 80th percentile, but because SO MANY PEOPLE SKILLED AT MATH take the GRE, it put me in more like the 60th. Think about this. And by the way, my 800 on the verbal? Effortless. I could say something snotty about people simply needing to read a little literature or a newspaper, or that if they had done their vocab in grade school they'd do fine, but I realize that we have different strengths. So stop with the "it is so easy" stuff, and reocgnize the population that being measured.