Ilspflouz

I think I kind of know what you mean about that feeling. The first time I applied to PhD programs, I applied to 10 and I got more and more impatient as decisions started coming in. For me IDK if I'd call it chasing a high though, it was more like an "OMG this process has taken so damn long I just want it to be over already and know where I'm going to be next year" type of vibe. Congrats on the admissions and good luck with your other apps!

Congrats!!!!!

Thank you so much! Yes, definitely difficult!

@aml149 @AspiringScholar17 I just got in too!!!! Woop!!!!!! CONGRATS guys!!!!!! we could be cohort mates!

I'm down too! Hey everyone just FYI - inside source says that acceptances this year should be earlier than last year for MSU because they are moving their visit weekend to be in Feb instead of March. So - we could find out by the end of this week/next about both Cincy and MSU!!!! AHHH!!!

@Brooke2016 @RoadtoPhD Congrats!!!! Don't feel terrible - you deserve to celebrate the good news!!! @AspiringScholar17 @aml149 @RoadtoPhD Since we appear to be coming down to judgement day for Cincy...GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!!!! (and anyone else I may have missed who applied there!!!!) I hope we all get in. AHHHHH.

Don't worry, you're not the only one! Haha. Anyone else just get an email from the Cincinnati graduate secretary today updating them on the status of their application? She said in the email that the committee "will be meeting soon" to review apps. I hope @aml149 is right and we hear back next week because I'm starting to get anxious!!!! Lol. That sounds like fantastic experience! Bet that it will look awesome to the admissions committees (plus working with a Cincy alum can't hurt there ). Thanks so much for the info too. I don't think I can wait until February either. Eeeeeeek!

Lol! You might be going crazy for saying that. I'm procrastinating hard on my school work and it's not good. Haha. If you don't mind me asking, where are you working as a research assistant/what type of project are you working on? I can relate to this WAYYYYY too much. That's awesome about the pubs though!!! Huge deal that you have those!!!! I hope that the anxiety goes down a notch once you start hearing back! I think so, from the results page it looks like people found out for Cincinnati late January and very early in February. So I'd say if not next week then the week after, because their applicant weekend was the end of February last year. In terms of MSU, their applicant weekend last year was mid-March and I think people started finding out early to mid-February from them.

Thanks so much! Thank you! Oh god me too. I'm really really interested in Cincy so I'm impatient as hell to hear back from them! At least I'm in school so trying to focus on that to distract me but it's not working so well... Which btw does anyone know when Cincys recruitment days were previously? I've been trying to find them in previous threads but there is so much content there it is getting confusing...

Thank you so much! The end of the month?!!?! Ahhhhhh!!! Now the long wait!!!! Congrats!!! I got in as well, so we may be cohort mates! 1st choice and 1st round?! Go you!!! That's awesome!!! ...btw sorry everyone, I just figured out I could quote more than one post in a reply....so I can stop spamming the board now replying to multiple posts...

I totally agree. I am having a hard time figuring out how to rank my programs I applied to. Promised myself I won't decide anything until I visit and see which is the best fit! Crossing my fingers you get an interview at UCI (and the others you applied to)!!! :-)

Holy crap that is soon! I hope they notify you all ASAP!

Does anyone know what the Cincy interviews look like, or if they just accept? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Here's how I think I'd rank those things: 1) fit, 2)reputation, 3)funding, 4)location What about you?

@Brooke2016 @PhDorBUST Congrats on the acceptances!!!!!! Wahoooo!!!!!! Isn't it nice to see all the hard work pay off? ;-) @AspiringScholar17 Thank you! Crossing my fingers you hear good news as well! Also I'm wondering the same thing about Northeastern. I don't think they're harder than Cincy to get into from what I've heard at least, not sure about MSU. Got my apps in so I'm in the same boat as you now, & I hear you, the waiting suuuuuucks. Last time I applied to 13 programs (idk what the hell i was thinking) They started being due in December and I didn't hear back from some until late March. It was ridiculous. I'm hoping this time around the waiting is at least slightly shorter. :-/

Kansas City, Missouri (MO). I'm also going to ACJS and have not found anything on airbnb that was any cheaper than the hotels unfortunately. The conference is in the "financial district" of the city so maybe it's just an expensive area? :-/ Here is a listing for what I found as the cheapest hotel in the area for the ACJS conference: check it out! It's $77 a night and is a 10 minute drive from the conference hotel or ~20 mins by bus. You could uber it if you don't drive there to do that hotel? Or if you just go for a few nights, it could potentially work? In terms of cheap flights, I found a spirit flight for $59 for my area. Ended up being $160 round trip with fees. Worth a look! Good luck!

Hi everyone! I'm new to this thread, and just wanted to say hello. :-) I've applied to MSU, UCincinnati, and SUNY-Albany. Congrats to all of you who have already been accepted! & to those of you who have finished your applications already! I still have to complete 2 of my 3 apps. This is my second time applying to doctoral programs. Last time was mostly to PhDs in forensic psychology, and it was unfortunately not very fruitful. I ended up doing my MS in CJ instead, and now I'm applying to PhD programs in CJ. Much better fit for me, so here's hoping this app cycle goes better! I saw some people were asking questions about MSU's application/interview process. I did my master's there - here's answers I have to some of the q's I saw on the previous pages in this thread: 1) I don't believe they do interviews before accepting on a regular basis. Previously they sent out acceptances and then did an invite weekend where accepted doctoral students could come see the campus if they wanted to. 2) Last year they sent out acceptances & invites in early Feb & I think accepted around 12-15 people with the idea that about 6-8 would agree to attend. They have a new graduate director and the rumor is they are trying to expand the PhD program. Last year that meant more acceptances than in the years prior - so this could be good news for us! However, their pool of applicants is also growing. :-/ 3) The graduate secretary and graduate director at MSU are two amazing and extremely nice people. If you have any questions seriously don't hesitate to contact them and I'm sure they will be helpful. 4) The invite weekend is multiple days. It consists of attending informational sessions, meeting faculty and doctoral students, & attending social outings. Anyone have any information about SUNY Albany and their interview/app process? Good luck everyone!!!!! We got this!!!!! Don't let the waiting get you down!

Thanks so much for your replies. You both have made some very good points. u/guttata-- If this degree takes more than 2 years, I certainly agree that it would be a waste of my time right now considering my goal is ultimately to pursue a PhD. I planned out my classes and I can finish them in 1 year @ 3 courses a semester. Then I would just have my thesis to complete. Is it common for a thesis to take over a year from start to finish? As far as what my degree would allow me to do-- it is two fold. It would allow me to become more marketable to employers by building on my research and stats skills (I work in social science research right now, and having only a bachelors is making it hard for me to get jobs/promotions that my experience should otherwise qualify me for. If I didn't get a Phd, I could double my salary with a masters). It also would allow me to further develop my research interests and get a better idea of if I am cut out for academia. I also thought completing a thesis, getting a better GPA (my undergrad was a 3.5), and getting more research experience and maybe a presentation or two (pub if I am lucky) would help my PhD admission chances. Am I overestimating the impact those experiences could have on my PhD apps? You are also right to point out that the academic job market is bleak. Apparently this new field has pretty good job prospects. Everyone I have talked to has said that there are more job slots for Criminology/criminal justice PhDs then there are people to fill them right now. I am not sure how much I should trust that, but it is a message I am consistently getting. That is one of the reasons I decided to switch from psych. I also switched because gaining admission to crim phd programs is apparently much more reasonable then the insanely competitive world of psych grad programs. ...I guess my question is -- does any of the above make up for the fact that this degree will be unfunded? Or is your advice basically the same? u/random_grad-- I qualify for a small grant (~900 dollars a semester) and any loans I take would be unsubsidized Stafford loans. I believe there are some pretty reasonable repayment plans offered for those. The interest would accrue rapidly though and that freaks me out. Any chance you took Stafford loans also and have any insight. In terms of ranking -- good point, I should have mentioned that. This MS is at the #7 school in my field. They also have a history of accepting PhD students from their MS program. I have interests that seem to mesh well with faculty at the #3 and #5 schools in my field as well and was hoping the connection faculty in this MS program have with those faculty could possibly help my admissions potential at those schools if I make a good impression...Does this change anything about your advice either? Good point about getting everything in writing! Thank you so much!

Hi everyone, So after being shut out from every PhD program I applied to this round, I decided to switch fields and apply to some MS programs in that field to get my foot in the door and up my chances of future phd admission (and job prospects). I was accepted to an MS program, and also told that I was in the running to receive funding "with high recommendation". Funding is a big deal to me because I already have some debt from undergrad (~8k) that I am struggling to pay off and I really didn't want to have to take out loans for grad school too. I had to accept my admissions offer by mid-April, but was told funding decisions would not be made until May. I naively thought the "with high recommendation" catchphrase meant I had a good shot at getting funding, so I went ahead and accepted the admissions offer. It's now June and since I hadn't heard anything, I contacted the school. I was informed I was not awarded any funding. They also apologized that I hadn't heard anything and said I must have been left off the email list of people to inform. I'm kind of at a loss of what to do now. I really, really don't want to take out more loans. But I can't afford to pay for this degree otherwise. I am very interested in this program, and need to get this degree for there to be any chance of me pursuing my dream of becoming a researcher. I also need to get this degree to be successful in this new field (which really does seem like a much better fit for my interests). But is it really worth the $20-30K worth of debt that I will have to go into? I was offered a part time job by a prof in another department that I know well, so that could offset some living costs, but I would still have to pay tuition. Should I ask him if there's any way that can turn into an assistantship? Or is that rude? And how much should I read into not being offered funding and that they forgot to even inform me? I decided on this program because it seemed like it would afford me a lot of opportunities to set myself apart from other students, and because it seemed like the program was really interested in working with me. But I feel like if they were actually interested in me as a student, they would have either given me funding or not let me slip through the cracks. Lastly, this latest rejection is just making me feel like maybe it is a sign I am just not a competitive candidate for academia. I really thought I had a good shot at getting into at least SOME PhD program (I applied to schools of varying difficulty). My advisers backed this up. But I ended up with 1 phone interview (then quick denial) and 9 straight denials. I gained admission at an MA program, but now I am not offered any funding. How did I think I had an application that was good enough to get me a doctoral program, when in reality it is not even good enough to get me funding from a master's program? I feel like there must be some huge disconnect in my qualifications that I am missing, and so far no one has been able to point out to me what it is. It is just getting really difficult to be positive here and figure out what the best option moving forward is. Any insight is helpful. Thank you everyone. Sorry for the text wall.

If becoming a criminal investigator is what you want to do, then that is great! But keep in mind that becoming a criminal investigator is a much, much different job than a social worker. Both help people, but they do it in very different ways. Becoming a criminal investigator would mean you could work on crime scenes, conduct police investigations, etc. You can help people by solving crimes. Basically you would be a detective. This would require you to go to police academy or FBI academy, and work your way up through the force to become a detective. I don't think it is necessary to have a bachelors degree to enter police academy, but I think it is necessary to have one to enter the FBI academy. You probably will want to double check me on that. At academy, you then learn the skills you need to prepare you to become an investigator, and when you graduate you can begin working either as a cop or an agent. As I understand it, there are often jobs available for police officers or FBI agents. The point just is that a criminal justice degree does not mean that you will get one of these jobs. You certainly will NOT get one of these jobs without going to academy. Social workers need to get a BSW (bachelor's in social work) or both a bachelor's in something and an MSW. Like I said above, a master's in social work allows you to see clients to help them with mental health problems or personal issues. You would also work with them to help them find services that can help them improve their quality of life (e.g. if someone is homeless helping them find housing, if they are in an abusive relationship helping them find services for domestic violence victims, etc). You can work with criminals conducting therapy or mental health assessments in prison systems or by working for the courts. But most social workers do NOT work for the court system. Social workers cannot work on crime scenes or police cases. There are often social work jobs available working with very high risk populations (child protective services, the homeless, etc), but these jobs have very high burnout rates. Also, social workers are very often overworked and the positions often do not pay well. You have to really be passionate about your job and helping others to stay in the social work field. So if you feel social work is boring, it might not be a good choice for you. Social workers often do very emotionally draining, but necessary jobs. A bachelor's/master's in sociology could allow you to work on social science data or teach at the community college level (if you have a masters). I am not sure what else you could really do with it. But these jobs are often difficult to get. I work on social science data at the moment and am surrounded by people who have MA's in sociology, work here temporarily, have been trying to find a permanent job, and are having a hell of a time. Basically, just understand that getting a degree in really ANY social science field (some people would say really in any field at all) means that you will potentially have a difficult time finding a job. In the social sciences (psych, criminal justice, sociology, etc), often your degree is just a checkbox. Jobs are out there, but your ability to get hired is much more based on the experience you have (as zhanggar said above) than it is on your degree. To have a good shot at getting a job (or getting into grad school), you need to get all the experience you can that is related to your field while in undergrad through internships/volunteering/etc. Most of it will be probably be unpaid, and it is definitely an extra burden on top of your classes. But you will thank yourself when you get out of school and are able to find a job while your classmates that have few outside experiences are struggling. This is a harsh reality that many students don't necessarily realize until they graduate and are trying to find a job. Trust me, I'm living it right now.

Sword_Saint -- I've been reading this forum quite a lot and just wanted to say that I am really impressed at your knowledge of the CJ field and graduate study. I managed a lab for ~3 years after my bachelor's and we had so (SO SO SO) many RA's who were graduating and would just say "I want a PhD" but had no knowledge of what that would require. They also did not know much about the field the lab was in. I plan on completing a PhD after my mater's as well. I have heard that doing a PhD and a Master's are very different in terms of what is expected of students. But I am hoping that MA will help prepare me really well for further graduate study so perhaps I won't be bothered by the transition as much. I also agree about the conference presentations and doctoral vs. masters students vs profs. I've presented at 3 conferences now, and I really feel like giving a quality presentation depends more on your public speaking abilities and preparation than it does on the length of graduate study.

Criminologists and forensic psychologists (what 'criminal psychologists' are usually called) are quite different. Most forensic psychologists do things like evaluating defendants for insanity, being expert witnesses, etc. They usually study things like how mental health issues are handled by the justice system, or individual factors that lead to crime and recidivism. Criminologists on the other hand, usually study the different causes of crime (usually going beyond the individual level to also look at things like policy, societal influences, etc), and the effect crime has on society, some also study the justice system's response to crime and its effectiveness. Which of these concentrations are you interested in? Figuring that out would be your first step. Traditionally, criminologists and forensic psychologists have PhDs, so that is what I am going to describe here. You CAN get an MA/MS (Master of Arts or Master of Science) in psychology/forensic psychology or criminology/criminal justice. Doing so may or may not allow you to complete your career goals depending on what you want to do. The most common ways of becoming a forensic psychologist involve getting a PhD or a PsyD. The PhD route requires you to obtain a doctorate in clinical psychology and specialize in forensic psychology. PhD programs in clinical psychology are insanely hard to get into - in many cases they are harder than medical school. Most are combined MA/PhD programs that involve 5-7 years of schooling during which you complete coursework, clinical work (seeing patients), and a dissertation. Once you have completed your doctorate, you then go on to complete a one year clinical internship, and sometimes another 1-2 year post-doctoral internship. You would need to complete your clinical internship (and possibly some of your clinical work during your PhD) at forensic sites (e.g. prisons, hospitals for the criminally insane, etc) or with forensic patients. You also would need to find programs that had professors involved in research that has some sort of forensic aspect (and that you are interested in) who could "mentor" you during your PhD. There are a limited number of programs in the country where professors are engaged in this type of research, so this would narrow your options of schools a bit. PhD programs are research intensive, and most programs train you to be a researcher first and a clinician second. So if you don't like research, this option might not be for you. However PhD's are usually fully paid for (tuition waiver and stipend). In contrast, a PsyD is not paid for and can be very expensive. It is a doctorate that you often have to pay for yourself through loans. Sometimes scholarships or grants are available but it is not the norm. However, PsyD's focus on training you to be a clinician, not a researcher. So some people click with that option more. PsyD's are less research intensive, and are considered more of "professional" versus an "academic" degree. I don't know very much about how PsyD programs are structured so I can't comment on how PsyD programs themselves differs from a PhD. But I do know that they usually require about 5 years of schooling. Both Clinical PhD's and PsyD's can see patients and diagnose mental illness. Criminologists on the other hand cannot see patients or diagnose mental illness. However they do allow you to research/learn about the causes and effects of crime. Many criminologists, in addition to conducting research work with government agencies, police departments, and policymakers to help them evaluate and develop new services for dealing with crime (forensic psychologists sometimes do this too, but it is less common as they are focused more on individual causal factors). There are also some criminologists and social psychologists that look at individual factors (e.g. things like personality traits) relating to criminal behavior and things like aggression. Criminologists often get PhD's in criminology or criminal justice, but I have also seen criminologists with PhD's in sociology, and a couple even with PhDs in community/social psychology. Getting a PhD in any of these programs requires you to do a 1-2 year master's degree and 3-5 years of doctoral study. Some programs allow you to get an MA as part of your PhD, while others will not admit you without an MA first. You can get an MA/MS in forensic psychology or criminology/criminal justice. There are certain schools around the country that offer specific forensic psychology masters degrees. I believe some of them qualify you to be able to see patients at the end of your degree as long as you pass the licensing exam. However, it completely depends on the state you are in if you can practice with only a master's degree in psychology. Not all states will allow you to do so. Keep in mind that if seeing patients is really all you want to do, or you want to work for a court --- you should DEFINITELY look into getting a Masters in Social Work (MSW). Many states allow people with MSWs to practice independently, while people with MAs in psychology are sometimes required to practice under the supervision of a PhD level psychologist. The reality also is that many prisons/courts and community mental health (CMH--what many people in the justice system will be referred to) often prefer to hire MSWs because they can pay them less. Many schools also offer masters degrees in criminal justice/criminology. These can prepare you to work in the justice system or for government agencies, or work as a social science research analyst. They will not prepare you to deal with patients who are criminally insane. Sorry for the wall of text! I have a bachelors in psychology and just spent years preparing for a forensic psych career only to realize after applying to programs that I am more interested in criminal justice/criminology. So I think my advice is really just make sure that you think long and hard about what the end goal is. Get as much information as you can about all of the options available to you so you can make an educated decision. Volunteer where you can. Because I know way too many people that thought they wanted to do one career, got into it and then figured out crap...this is not what I wanted at all. What do you actually want to be able to DO? Do you want to focus on mental illness and how it relates to crime? Do you want to work with mental health patients who happen to have committed crimes? Clinical forensic psychology is probably a good option. Or do you want to focus on crime itself in any context and its causes/effects? Criminology/Criminal Justice is probably a good option. Or do you want to how other individual factors (personality, individual environment, etc) relate to criminal behavior? Social/Community Psychology with a Forensic emphasis might be a good option. Feel free to message me or reply if you have any questions about the two fields and how they can intersect.

Awesome! Glad to find a fellow Spartan. I went to MSU for undergrad as well and worked for the university as a lab manager for ~3 years after graduating. So if you have any questions about MSU/East Lansing, feel free to PM me. :-)

Hi kjh22. Congrats on your acceptances! Sounds like you have a lot to choose between. Do you know which program you would pick if cost wasn't a factor? I was choosing between forensic psych and CJ just a little bit ago, so I know the struggle! If you ever want someone to talk stuff over with ever feel free to PM me. :-) I am pretty clueless to how this funding stuff works too! Are you feeling excited but mildly apprehensive? That's how I feel right now. haha. I am not sure what to expect starting graduate school or how to navigate the funding process, but I am supposed to have an adviser contacting me at some point, hopefully they can answer questions!

Hi everyone, Are there any prospective MS/MA students following this forum, or is everyone pretty much PhD? I am starting a CJ MS at MSU in the fall. Do I have any cohort mates on here? MS/MA people at other schools, how are you feeling about the application process and starting graduate school?